John from Riverside Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Is your new argument that I don't know if Tyrod Taylor was exposed to film study, positional coaching, and developmental processes because I'm not a former member of the Raven coaching staff and current member of the Bills coaching staff? There is no new arguement You talk about his development like you know what coaches think of it. You cannot guage that from your couch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 No no no, 15 games simply weren't enough time to evaluate EJ. But by his 5th start we know everything about Tyrod because he backed up a Super Bowl MVP for 4 years in another franchise. Yea but c'mon, he's in his 5th NFL season, that says it all. He should be a seasoned veteran. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 People don't forget. This team will be better with EJ at QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 (edited) Kind of ironic that you would say that, as anyone who's opinion differed from yours and thought EJ wasn't a good QB was wrong and a troll in your eyes. thank you for trying to argue my opinion and it's merits. Please move on. Edited October 26, 2015 by BillsFan-4-Ever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 (edited) GG and FireChan: I have never, not even once, trashed Tyrod Taylor for the purposes of lifting up EJ Manuel. Have trashed Tyrod Taylor because Tyrod Taylor is a bad quarterback; this is independent of EJ Manuel being a bad quarterback. The two are not linked. I held out hope that EJ Manuel might have matured into someone capable of being a quality starting quarterback, given the strides he appeared to have taken as a pocket passer in the per-season of his third NFL season. Unfortunately he didn't take any strides, which leaves us without a quality quarterback on the roster. People don't forget. It was what turned out to be unjustified optimism. Unfortunately we don't have any quality quarterbacks on the roster. There is no new arguement You talk about his development like you know what coaches think of it. You cannot guage that from your couch I talk about his development because I think it's reasonable to ask certain things of a player in his fifth year in the league. You apparently don't, which I find to be absurd; as, if you were right, there would be no point to developing young quarterbacks on the bench. Edited October 26, 2015 by TakeYouToTasker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 (edited) EJ's performance today was the first or second best game performance by a Buffalo quarterback this season. EJ wasn't great, but Tyrod hasn't been very good either. Tyrod has shown through 5 games, in his 5th year in the league, that he is not "The Guy". If today convinced you that EJ also is not "The Guy", then I submit that neither one is good enough to be the starter. GG and FireChan: I have never, not even once, trashed Tyrod Taylor for the purposes of lifting up EJ Manuel. Have trashed Tyrod Taylor because Tyrod Taylor is a bad quarterback; this is independent of EJ Manuel being a bad quarterback. The two are not linked. I held out hope that EJ Manuel might have matured into someone capable of being a quality starting quarterback, given the strides he appeared to have taken as a pocket passer in the per-season of his third NFL season. Unfortunately he didn't take any strides, which leaves us without a quality quarterback on the roster. It was what turned out to be unjustified optimism. Unfortunately we don't have any quality quarterbacks on the roster. I talk about his development because I think it's reasonable to ask certain things of a player in his fifth year in the league. Saying EJ's performance against the Bengals was possibly the best QB performance of the season was another ludicrous point, now about to be explained away as "unjustified optimism." Nah TYTT. Just nah. I get you have no faith in Tyrod. That's all well and good, and you're certainly entitled to believing he isn't good enough to be our guy. I don't know if he's good enough to be our guy. Where you went laughably wrong was claiming EJ could be the guy over TT. It was comical. Edited October 26, 2015 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 (edited) FireChan: EJ's start in week 6 was, in fact, one of the better starts by any Bills quarterback this season. And it wasn't good. I've been very consistent about this. I held out hope that EJ may have developed on a traditional curve for his position, and shown enough improvement in his 3rd year. Until now we had only seen him in an injury plagued rookie year, and in a few starts at the very beginning of his second year. We needed him to, because it was the only way we had a chance this season. The only way to know if he had improved was to play him. Well, he played, and we found out that he hadn't improved, at least not in the areas he needed vital improvement in. Edited October 26, 2015 by TakeYouToTasker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maury Ballstein Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Calling out those in bold: I will probably make similar posts in various threads throughout the week but the EJ dreamers need to be held accountable once and for all. EJ Manuel's performance today did not at all surprise most rational, intelligent Bills fans. But no matter how much it became painstakingly obvious, for whatever reason, 15% of Bills fans kept insisting that Manuel had this magic ceiling, had only played (now) 16 games, was ruined by Marrone, "good kid, great tools..." I had to wait out a suspension last week and see Gugny post in the shoutbox that Tyrod Taylor is "terrible" (verdict's in on that one I guess) and in a thread that same day that Manuel's numbers through 15 games or whatever stack up favorably against hall of famers. Yeah guys who played in an era when 26 TD's and 15 INT's could win you MVP honors. Why don't you compare his numbers vs. a contemporary of his: Mike Glennon. Better yet, how do Tyrod Taylor's numbers (Take You to Tasker is the leader of the 'let's wait and see on EJ but verdict's in: Taylor sucks' bandwagon by the way) compare with those same players through 5 games?? I mean, the old, stale, tired arguments are so easy to refute. IT'S OVER! And the thing that bothers me about this is that I have spent so much of the last year (God knows why) telling everyone that he more than likely did not have it. And for what? It's not like I was asked to pick a number 1-10 and I took a number and Bills fan 4-ever took a number and I got lucky; this was plainly obvious to anyone who can watch and analyze a quarterback. There are two key components to being a good QB: thinking quickly and making quick, smart decisions and throwing an accurate football. He stinks at both! What in God's name did you see in this guy? I digress. I hope this just dies forever. As I've stated previously, Bills fans who still support Manuel are eerily similar to Tebow-heads (saw there's a thread for that one too). Why? Why is he such a polarizing figure? He's just a bad QB, that's IT! Go Bills and I certainly hope that the few of you who are trying to spread the 'Taylor sucks, that I know, but Manuel might still have it; hell, he might be an upgrade (WHAT?)' propaganda just quit it for good and start supporting the Bills starting QB who has had a HELL of a start to his career and may actually develop into/be the coveted franchise QB we've been waiting for lo these many years. -Metz Dropping names like Donnie Brasco, Congrats on the phantom flag. It's time to gloat ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 This is the worst I've ever seen any quarterback ever. I take back everything I've said about Tyrod and EJ being equally bad. FireChan: EJ's start in week 6 was, in fact, one of the better starts by any Bills quarterback this season. And it wasn't good. I've been very consistent about this. Well you took back everything you said, so you obviously changed your mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Well you took back everything you said, so you obviously changed your mind. Checkmate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 (edited) Well you took back everything you said, so you obviously changed your mind. You're being intentionally obtuse. a) EJ, over all, is a worse quarterback than Tyrod. b) EJ's game in week 6 was one of the better games a quarterback has played for us all year. Both of those things can be, and are, true independent of each other. But then, you already knew that. You're just trying to play stupid "gotcha" games by pretending that the second halves of sentences don't modify the first halves of sentences. Which is intellectually dishonest and stupid. Edited October 26, 2015 by TakeYouToTasker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 (edited) You're being intentionally obtuse. a) EJ, over all, is a worse quarterback than Tyrod. b) EJ's game in week 6 was one of the better games a quarterback has played for us all year. Both of those things can be, and are, true independent of each other. The numbers were almost identical to Tyrod's numbers in the Giants game (where 2 TD's got called back). And by most accounts, the Giants game was one of Tyrod's worst games this year. Edited October 26, 2015 by BuffaloHokie13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 b) EJ's game in week 6 was one of the better games a quarterback has played for us all year. Bills played 7 games, EJ's performance vs Bengals can be equated to TT's game vs Patriots, but no where near as good as TT vs Indy and Phins. TT's worst game vs Titans (with only Clay as a big playmaker) was better than EJ's worst game (with Shady & Clay) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 (edited) You're being intentionally obtuse. a) EJ, over all, is a worse quarterback than Tyrod. b) EJ's game in week 6 was one of the better games a quarterback has played for us all year. Both of those things can be, and are, true independent of each other. But then, you already knew that. You're just trying to play stupid "gotcha" games by pretending that the second halves of sentences don't modify the first halves of sentences. Which is intellectually dishonest and stupid. I'm not conflating those things as dependent on each other. I'm referring specifically to you being "consistent," which you have admitted, you weren't. Gotcha games are what I live and breathe for. Edited October 26, 2015 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metzelaars_lives Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Just so we're clear, in his 5 starts you've seen enough to evaluate that Tyrod isn't great and has no room to grow, but in 15 starts you still thought EJ Manuel was the best QB on our roster? I see his 16th start changed your opinion a bit. EXACTLY. This is exactly what he is saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pneumonic Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 EJ ... yet another in the long line of crappy QB's that have played under OC for the Bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan130 Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 None of those things are problems if EJ doesn't put us in a hole early. No late game heroics from Blake. No 1 yard. No bad call. Exactly. If the bills didn't play the worst team in football yesterday they would have lost by 28 points to pretty much every team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metzelaars_lives Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Kind of ironic that you would say that, as anyone who's opinion differed from yours and thought EJ wasn't a good QB was wrong and a troll in your eyes. Exactly. I spent 12 months delicately saying I didn't think EJ Manuel looked to me like a guy who was primed to take the next step and develop into a franchise QB and every time I did, BFFE called me a "hater" or a "troll." I was right. And now I'm being mean for insulting his intelligence. Again, given NFL developmental curves at the quarterback position, I wanted to see what EJ might have matured in to in his third season, which is when quarterbacks typically begin to show marked improvements. Tyrod Taylor is in his fifth season. You know, Aaron Rodgers sat out three seasons and was not immediately as good as he is today. There is still plenty of room for Taylor to grow. I disagree with your premise that the game should've "slowed down for him" while he was holding a clipboard. Dropping names like Donnie Brasco, Congrats on the phantom flag. It's time to gloat ! Not gloating. And yes, thank you, I appreciate you congratulating me on the phantom flag. Ya know last week, you guys were all "if you think EJ Manuel is the reason we lost that game..." and "Oh yeah the run defense- that was EJ Manuel's fault..." Ha ha very funny. And now this week, it's "phantom flag" and "well Matt Cassel sucked too." Do you want to know what all four of those excuses have in common? None of them have anything to do with how good EJ Manuel is. You were of the mindset that Manuel was going to be a good QB in this league. You were wrong. Time to own it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midland Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Defense has been poor at times. As for all the so called pro bowlers on the DL, I can't remember many plays being made by any of them. Then there was the so called backup players, who wasn't going to have drop off in play, might be true with starters, not looking like much; however they haven't even stepped up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metzelaars_lives Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 The numbers were almost identical to Tyrod's numbers in the Giants game (where 2 TD's got called back). And by most accounts, the Giants game was one of Tyrod's worst games this year. Not to mention in Taylor's two games in which the offense couldn't get going, number one, he didn't have McCoy or Watkins, 2) he didn't make any egregious turnovers, 3) he actually won one of those games- pretty much by himself. The handful of people on here who continue to twist and turn things to make excuses for Manuel and to discredit Taylor's very, very good start to his NFL career are beyond tiresome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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