Update on Chris Hogan

[GunnerBill]

And while I respect everyone's right to their opinion, knowing full well my own could well be wrong, in no reality is Hogan a more complete pure receiver than Harvin. That's just living in a different world, my friend. If you want the best football players on the final 53, Hogan's probably not on it -- even more so now that he's hurt.

The Seahawks came to the conclusion that Harvin was not a compelete receiver and couldn't help them - and this is a team most people would say have a lot of "Hogan esque" receivers. Harvin is a fantastic football player but as for a complete receiver - that isn't what his tape shows. His reputation as a gadget guy is earned it hasn't sprung up from nowhere. If you want a rounded guy who does everything well Hogan comes 3rd to Watkins and Woods.

[Deranged Rhino]

The Seahawks came to the conclusion that Harvin was not a compelete receiver and couldn't help them - and this is a team most people would say have a lot of "Hogan esque" receivers. Harvin is a fantastic football player but as for a complete receiver - that isn't what his tape shows. His reputation as a gadget guy is earned it hasn't sprung up from nowhere. If you want a rounded guy who does everything well Hogan comes 3rd to Watkins and Woods.

 

With respect, you're nuts.

[Kelly the Dog]

The Seahawks came to the conclusion that Harvin was not a compelete receiver and couldn't help them - and this is a team most people would say have a lot of "Hogan esque" receivers. Harvin is a fantastic football player but as for a complete receiver - that isn't what his tape shows. His reputation as a gadget guy is earned it hasn't sprung up from nowhere. If you want a rounded guy who does everything well Hogan comes 3rd to Watkins and Woods.

Harvin started over Woods in the scrimmage. Rex calls them 2 and 2A.

 

He also went out of his way today to say Harvin has zero worries about making this team.

[GunnerBill]

Key phrase: some of the things he's shown. I remember seeing that. I was also somewhat surprised by Sal's report.

It is the unprompted nature of the Hogan reference. Rex did the same in a presser a few days before that as well. When Woods v Harvin has been raised both have of their own volition added Hogan's name.

 

Does that make him a lock? No - as Rex has said today not being available at a key period often keeps guys off teams but if the cuts had to be made right now - today - Hogan still has a spot. One of the others taking advantage the next 2 weeks could change that, but if it does in my eyes it will be a mistake.

 

With respect, you're nuts.

With respect, no I am not.

[Deranged Rhino]

With respect, no I am not.

 

It's sports, we don't have to agree. I'm just busting your chops.

[Kelly the Dog]

It is the unprompted nature of the Hogan reference. Rex did the same in a presser a few days before that as well. When Woods v Harvin has been raised both have of their own volition added Hogan's name.

 

Does that make him a lock? No - as Rex has said today not being available at a key period often keeps guys off teams but if the cuts had to be made right now - today - Hogan still has a spot. One of the others taking advantage the next 2 weeks could change that, but if it does in my eyes it will be a mistake.

Right. If you watched Rex today he did say you can't make the club if you're in the tub. Then said Harvin did. You can't really be serious that Hogan is better than Harvin.

[GunnerBill]

I didn't say better. I said more well rounded. I have absolutely no doubt that Woods will be our #2 and they will go quickly to Harvin in the slot and then by the end if the season he won't be in the slot every time they trot 3 out there either he will have a gadget package put in for him.

 

This isn't fantasy - this is what happened in Seattle with a team that wanted to win a similar way. The Jets, with this staff, did I confess stick with him as a receiver but look at their other options... they had no choice.

 

EDIT: I confess to being a Harvin skeptic. Didn't like the signing when we made it and have not changed my mind. To me he has to be our number 1 return guy. If they keep Thigpen and don't have Harvin returning I fear they will have utterly wasted their money.

Edited August 23, 2015 by GunnerBill

[Deranged Rhino]

I didn't say better. I said more well rounded. I have absolutely no doubt that Woods will be our #2 and they will go quickly to Harvin in the slot and then by the end if the season he won't be in the slot every time they trot 3 out there either he will have a gadget package put in for him.

 

This isn't fantasy - this is what happened in Seattle with a team that wanted to win a similar way. The Jets, with this staff, did I confess stick with him as a receiver but look at their other options... they had no choice.

 

There's not one single football related thing Hogan does better than Harvin -- as a WR or a straight up player. Not one.

[GunnerBill]

There are plenty of people out there who think like me on Harvin and doubt him as a true receiver in the NFL. At least some of them work in Seattle.

[Kelly the Dog]

There are plenty of people out there who think like me on Harvin and doubt him as a true receiver in the NFL. At least some of them work in Seattle.

And if you knew what happened there you would know that they never tried to make him one. Ever. They never put him outside. He was always a gadget guy. It wasn't until NY that he was first put outside as a regular receiver. Even in Minnesota where he excelled a few years he was never playing the complete receiver role.

[Deranged Rhino]

There are plenty of people out there who think like me on Harvin and doubt him as a true receiver in the NFL. At least some of them work in Seattle.

 

There absolutely are, unquestionably. But none of those people think Hogan is more well rounded than Harvin. I can't promise much, but I can promise that.

[NoSaint]

He is more complete as wide receiver than Goodwin and 100% blocks better. Personally I think he is more complete as a pure receiver than Gadget Harvin too. This "what one thing does he excel at?" is not the basis on what I would construct a roster. I want the best football players, not the fastest blokes or the tallest blokes. The best players, and if they have demonstrated it on a Sunday in the fall more is the better.

I've got to ask- how much harvin have you watched?

[GunnerBill]

 

There absolutely are, unquestionably. But none of those people think Hogan is more well rounded than Harvin. I can't promise much, but I can promise that.

You may well be right. But there are guys on that Seattle receiving corps who you could realistically compare Hogan to are there not?

 

Look as I have said before I can see why others might want other guys.... we are deep at receiver and some of the other guys are younger or have flashier traits than Chris Hogan. But Hogan has production on Sundays that they can't match to this point and he is versatile and does everything pretty well. I think we only have two other guys like that and then a gadget guy. If Watkins or Woods went dkwn and Hogan was on another team I think we would certainly wish he wasn't.

 

I'd keep him and I think he is a better football player than the TBD consensus about him believes but I am not going to cry blue murder if we do cut him because I agree that Thompson and Davis and Goodwin are pretty good football players with good potential.

I've got to ask- how much harvin have you watched?

I watched some in Minnesota and some in New York but I watched every snap he took in Seattle.

[Nanker]

Some lucky NFL team or two are going to be very happy when we make our final cuts this year.

[rstencel]

You may well be right. But there are guys on that Seattle receiving corps who you could realistically compare Hogan to are there not?

 

Look as I have said before I can see why others might want other guys.... we are deep at receiver and some of the other guys are younger or have flashier traits than Chris Hogan. But Hogan has production on Sundays that they can't match to this point and he is versatile and does everything pretty well. I think we only have two other guys like that and then a gadget guy. If Watkins or Woods went dkwn and Hogan was on another team I think we would certainly wish he wasn't.

 

I'd keep him and I think he is a better football player than the TBD consensus about him believes but I am not going to cry blue murder if we do cut him because I agree that Thompson and Davis and Goodwin are pretty good football players with good potential.

 

I watched some in Minnesota and some in New York but I watched every snap he took in Seattle.

Its the production on Sundays that makes me consider Hogan replaceable. He's had his shots and proven not to have great field awareness, much allusiveness or tackle breaking abilities, but be a descent possession receiver. While having someone on your team that can get open in middle of field like that sounds great, and would be if had better field presence and produced first downs more consistently, he is not near irreplaceable. Actually in this offense, the TE is more likely to be handling that role majority of time now anyway. As far as his room to grow, He's been in the league long enough, that he's not likely going to grow much more than has already shown IMO.

 

As for Harvin, not sure would say he is a more well rounded player than Hogan at all. But he bring elusiveness and big play ability to the table. If they are going for dink and dunk west coast style offense, would take Hogan over Harvin, but they want a power run game with play action passing and some big play potential from their passing game, not a methodical passing game. They don't have the QB's for that type of offense anyway. So I would say people like Harvin and Goodwin, while not as well rounded, may fit better on this team, with this type of offense.

 

I am not sure who is going to make the team, and wouldn't be surprised if Hogan does make it, but wouldn't be thrilled by it either. Really not sure where he fits into this type of offense, other than rotational 3rd wide out with Harvin on 3rd and mediums possibly.

[GunnerBill]

Its the production on Sundays that makes me consider Hogan replaceable. He's had his shots and proven not to have great field awareness, much allusiveness or tackle breaking abilities, but be a descent possession receiver. While having someone on your team that can get open in middle of field like that sounds great, and would be if had better field presence and produced first downs more consistently, he is not near irreplaceable. Actually in this offense, the TE is more likely to be handling that role majority of time now anyway. As far as his room to grow, He's been in the league long enough, that he's not likely going to grow much more than has already shown IMO.

 

As for Harvin, not sure would say he is a more well rounded player than Hogan at all. But he bring elusiveness and big play ability to the table. If they are going for dink and dunk west coast style offense, would take Hogan over Harvin, but they want a power run game with play action passing and some big play potential from their passing game, not a methodical passing game. They don't have the QB's for that type of offense anyway. So I would say people like Harvin and Goodwin, while not as well rounded, may fit better on this team, with this type of offense.

 

I am not sure who is going to make the team, and wouldn't be surprised if Hogan does make it, but wouldn't be thrilled by it either. Really not sure where he fits into this type of offense, other than rotational 3rd wide out with Harvin on 3rd and mediums possibly.

 

I don't really agree with your first paragraph I still think it undersells his abilities, however, your second and third paragraphs about fits in this offense are a reasonable argument even if not one I totally buy. Not sure you should think of Harvin a stretch the field type - his tape suggests he is most effective catching short passes behind or near the line of scrimmage.

[rstencel]

 

I don't really agree with your first paragraph I still think it undersells his abilities, however, your second and third paragraphs about fits in this offense are a reasonable argument even if not one I totally buy. Not sure you should think of Harvin a stretch the field type - his tape suggests he is most effective catching short passes behind or near the line of scrimmage.

Not really meaning Harvin as stretch the field, more as threat to go distance when touches the ball. First paragraph is admittedly mostly opinion.

[dave mcbride]

Cutting Hogan would be foolish. Good teams almost always have players like him. Since the coaches apparently like him, I think he stays. My worst nightmare is him signing with the Pats and catching 90 balls.

[NoSaint]

 

Not sure you should think of Harvin a stretch the field type - his tape suggests he is most effective catching short passes behind or near the line of scrimmage.

how nice it would be if we saw this - dude can make plays all over the field, if we can get him the ball

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8N5etzBBZ4

 

 

Cutting Hogan would be foolish. Good teams almost always have players like him. Since the coaches apparently like him, I think he stays. My worst nightmare is him signing with the Pats and catching 90 balls.

 

if hogan became the pats #1 receiver, i dont think i would be bothered. in fact - sign me up for that. if we have to defend someone getting 8-10 catches for them, hes low on my list of people that would worry me. i know that sounds bad, but....

Edited August 24, 2015 by NoSaint

[Iraq Vet]

Trade Hogan for a 3rd rounder to Green Bay.....solves a few problems for both teams.