FireChan Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 what peers? Manning? Brady? Rivers? Cutler? Orton? Luck? Wilson? Kap? Tannerhill? Manziel? Geno? RGIII (and out), Weeden? Vince Young? Quincy Carter? Mike McMahon? All other 31 QB's currently starting in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 Oh here we go. My favorite EJ excuse: other quarterbacks have had bad games too. So because Joe Montana had a bad game in 1986 does that mean you think Jamarcus Russell has a better chance of staging an improbable comeback? Â And fellas, I am still waiting for someone to come out and say that they believe EJ Manuel has a better than 50% chance to be the Bills' clear cut opening day starter in 2017. Because if no one will say that, then I'm not sure anyone even disagrees with me because all I've said is that I don't think he does. I don't hate him, I don't root against him, I don't think he's a bust and I don't even think it's inconceivable he wins the job this year. I would be silly to make a prediction like that because the new coaches have no allegience to EJ at all...they didnt draft him. Â Rex loves him some Tyrod Taylor.....and if he decides to with him so be it. All other 31 QB's currently starting in the NFL. Well....thats wonderful......lets do that then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 (edited) I would be silly to make a prediction like that because the new coaches have no allegience to EJ at all...they didnt draft him. Â Rex loves him some Tyrod Taylor.....and if he decides to with him so be it. Well....thats wonderful......lets do that then What QB's in the NFL would you consider excellent? Â What constitutes an "excellent performance" from the 31 other QB's in the NFL? Edited July 18, 2015 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 Dude no one, including FireChan, has given up on EJ completely. PLEASE stop putting words in everyone's mouths. Do you understand that there is a difference between being skeptical and saying someone is completely done. You should go back and check Firechan's posts....he plainly says he does not think EJ Manuel will succeed in the NFL.... Â If that isnt giving up on someone.....then what is the definiition? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 Whoa.....just whoa.....  I think we are getting a little mixed up here in definitions.  I am not talking about what would make EJ Manuel a franchise QB for this team in my eyes  I am asking what would it take to say that EJ Manuel excelled in a GAME for the bills.......  EJ Manuel.......a player who everyone admits is an unfinished product.....a player who had his first year cut short to injury.....in all honest a player that probably should not even have played his first year and should have been behind a solid vet holding a clipboard.......  A player who had a completely unimaginative OC and a head coach who put him in some of the worse possible situations to excel........on a team that frankly could not run the ball as a ball run dominant team.......with no talent at the offensive guard position........  In his very young career.......if you have a QB that actually made plays that one the game........and did lead them to a WIN in overtime (a pressure situation) on the road.......  I keep hear "as other QBs in the league have done".....exactly what QBs are we talking about? Manning? Brady? Ben R.? A. Rogers?  I have seen QBs that are considered franchise QBs for their team like Joe Facco, Tony Romo, etc etc that have wilted in those exact situations......  So exactly where is the bar being set for EJ Manuel in his young career? How much was he being held back by his now O line coach? Is it fair to compare in to top level QBs in the NFL at this time?  Now.....last year was last year and I dont even know if EJ Manuel starts for this team......but people need to remember just how had it is to find those QBs that go through what EJ Manuel has gone through as far as QB cultivation and succeed..... Excellent is excellent, no sliding scale. You're throwing around words without thinking about what they mean. If you think he did ok for a rookie or second year player or whatever you prefer then say it.   Imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 We'll never know. But that doesn't take away from the fact that it would be blind homerism to call EJ's play excellent.   Imo excellent play compared to what....that is the point I am trying to make.....  Excellent play compared to the best QBs of the NFL? Of course not WHat about the other QBs of the NFL And not just the other qbs of the NFL......but how they looked in their 2nd years? Excellent is excellent, no sliding scale. You're throwing around words without thinking about what they mean.  If you think he did ok for a rookie or second year player or whatever you prefer then say it.   Imo That is your definition Beer......not everyone feels the same way about that.  And I dont think he did ok for a rookie or 2nd year player....I think he did excellent (in that game) for a rookie or 2nd year player  And I feel that there is in fact a sliding scale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Gun Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 (edited) Â Given the last few years, I think deep down many Bills fans are furious this franchise didn't draft Russell Wilson in the third round. Not only that, they moved up in the third for a total stiff of a WR. They simply can't help themselves to take it out on EJ. Â So they proclaim EJ Manuel as a Blaine Gabbert type of total failure, when the reality is that EJ's at least shown promising enough attributes in his play for the reasonable fans to still have faith that he will eventually become a franchise QB. Nope, not even close. IMO, I do not feel Wilson is that good of a QB, he is just along for the ride on a great defense. Edited July 18, 2015 by old school Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 You should go back and check Firechan's posts....he plainly says he does not think EJ Manuel will succeed in the NFL.... Â If that isnt giving up on someone.....then what is the definiition? Wanting him cut or not to get a chance. He has a less than 10% chance IMO. Why would I believe that he will be successful with those odds? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 Wanting him cut or not to get a chance. He has a less than 10% chance IMO. Why would I believe that he will be successful with those odds? You dont.....and that is why I was telling Metz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 You dont.....and that is why I was telling Metz It's not the same as giving up on him. Let's just say that EJ Manuel is a lottery ticket. I may think I have no chance to win, but that doesn't mean I'm not gonna hold on to it just in case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 I would be silly to make a prediction like that because the new coaches have no allegience to EJ at all...they didnt draft him.  Rex loves him some Tyrod Taylor.....and if he decides to with him so be it. Well....thats wonderful......lets do that then   Why would that matter? If they think he's the best guy, they make him starter. Why can't you say whether you think EJ has a better than 50% chance he will be starter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 This is silly. How many QB's today can you say would have a better than 50% chance of being their team's starter in 2017? A handful maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 Â Â Why would that matter? If they think he's the best guy, they make him starter. Why can't you say whether you think EJ has a better than 50% chance he will be starter Because I dont know that for certain.....saying that I feel EJ Manuel has been handled badly in the past does not mean I have to say that he will be the starter in this upcoming season.... Â I mean....I certainly HOPE that he is the starter because that would mean that a coaching staff with complete lack of bias towards him felt that he had made enough progression that he should be the starter...... Â And I still feel that we should draft a QB high in this next upcoming draft if the opportunity to get a good one is there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 Because I dont know that for certain.....saying that I feel EJ Manuel has been handled badly in the past does not mean I have to say that he will be the starter in this upcoming season.... Â I mean....I certainly HOPE that he is the starter because that would mean that a coaching staff with complete lack of bias towards him felt that he had made enough progression that he should be the starter...... Â And I still feel that we should draft a QB high in this next upcoming draft if the opportunity to get a good one is there And you say I'm giving up on him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 And you say I'm giving up on him? How you and I feel about him Chan are entirely different animals and you know that  I know that you love to twist words....but that isnt gonna work with me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 How you and I feel about him Chan are entirely different animals and you know that  I know that you love to twist words....but that isnt gonna work with me It really isn't. We both don't think he's likely to succeed and we both want to look at other options next year until proven otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 It really isn't. We both don't think he's likely to succeed and we both want to look at other options next year until proven otherwise. I do in fact think that he is likely to succeed.......  Drafting a qb in the 1st round of next years draft is not about thinking EJ Manuel is gonna bust.....its about accumulating talent at one of the most important positions on the field  Something the bills have not done in the past and should have Injuries happen  Because of the way our team is set up we need QBs that play on not huge franchise qb contracts while we pay money for the dominant defense we have accumulated....we CANNOT AFFORD TO PAY FRANCHISE QBS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 This is silly. How many QB's today can you say would have a better than 50% chance of being their team's starter in 2017? A handful maybe?  A massive handful maybe. Probably at least 24-25.  Because I dont know that for certain.....saying that I feel EJ Manuel has been handled badly in the past does not mean I have to say that he will be the starter in this upcoming season....  I mean....I certainly HOPE that he is the starter because that would mean that a coaching staff with complete lack of bias towards him felt that he had made enough progression that he should be the starter......  And I still feel that we should draft a QB high in this next upcoming draft if the opportunity to get a good one is there   Fair enough, but the fact that the current staff didn't draft him (although Doug Whaley certainly bet his career on him) has no influence on whether they choose him as starter. They will pick who they see as best. I do in fact think that he is likely to succeed.......  Drafting a qb in the 1st round of next years draft is not about thinking EJ Manuel is gonna bust.....its about accumulating talent at one of the most important positions on the field  Something the bills have not done in the past and should have Injuries happen  Because of the way our team is set up we need QBs that play on not huge franchise qb contracts while we pay money for the dominant defense we have accumulated....we CANNOT AFFORD TO PAY FRANCHISE QBS  Huh?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 A massive handful maybe. Probably at least 24-25. You think 24-25 QB's have a 50% chance or greater of being their team's starter in 2017? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 Well this has become insufferable... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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