SI says Bills are a team in "panic mode" w/ QB roster hole

[YoloinOhio]

 

 

+ 1

 

I hope they get the O-line figured out somehow, and SOMEBODY steps up at OG position.

rex seems very positive on miller starting

[San-O]

rex seems very positive on miller starting

 

 

Well, I mean that's fine, but a HC talking up a rookie he hopes to start? Happens every year on every team I imagine.

[YoloinOhio]

 

 

Well, I mean that's fine, but a HC talking up a rookie he hopes to start? Happens every year on every team I imagine.

except last year, on this team #venusdemilo

[San-O]

except last year, on this team #venusdemilo

 

Uh, maybe. I'm just saying having a 1st year HC talking up a rookie? No news there IMO. I do hope the kid can

play, but look at what they drafted last year for O line and the 2nd round pick couldn't even get on the FIELD???

 

Let's see what happens, hopefully it's good.

[YoloinOhio]

 

Uh, maybe. I'm just saying having a 1st year HC talking up a rookie? No news there IMO. I do hope the kid can

play, but look at what they drafted last year for O line and the 2nd round pick couldn't even get on the FIELD???

 

Let's see what happens, hopefully it's good.

i didn't say it was "news." You said you hoped someone would step up at OG and I said Rex seems very positive on Miller. I didnt make any outlandish statement, it was just a comment.

[San-O]

Sorry, my bad.

[PromoTheRobot]

 

Yup. (And to reiterate, we'll see if it was a big mistake with regard to No. 3 above that Bills didn't add a body in the draft in arguably the deepest QB draft in a while)

You have to explain to me how a draft class with 12 wins by 5 QBs is considered deep.

[BillsBytheBay]

Concerned? Yes. Worried? Yes. Panicked? No.

Seems like business as usual with Whaley. I'll even go as far as saying Whaley did a good job building an offense that can thrive on a short passing game.

They didn't panic about not having a QB, they addressed the situation by making it an easier offense on a QB.

[GunnerBill]

Ps - in his final 4 games of last season, Geno Smith was 71-109 for 1001 yards, 6 tds, and 2 INTs. His completion pct was 65.1, his ypa was 9.2, and his rating was 105.3.

 

He really improved, basically.

 

Let's not forget that the reason Cassel is on the roster is because the Bills lost out to the Browns for McCown's services.

 

The Geno love needs to end. He is not the answer for anyone. He is a very natural smooth thrower of the football, always has been, but he does not have the decision making ability, especially under pressure to make it long term.

[GG]

You have to explain to me how a draft class with 12 wins by 5 QBs is considered deep.

 

Stop being obtuse. Counting wins from a rookie QB class is borderline trolling. Maybe for you its across the line.

 

A deep class is the one where 5 guys are selected in the first 2 rounds. Classes of 2011 and 2012 look deep by historical comparison and bothe produced quality QBs. All those classes are better than the 2013 class.

[sjjr]

ahhh...the speculative media reports in the dead spot in NFL offseason...The Bills have made their decisions with QB and have 3 guys competing with EJ being the favorite. We'll see in July and August...

[8-8 Forever?]

You have to explain to me how a draft class with 12 wins by 5 QBs is considered deep.

agree. bad QB class. pros completely unsure whether Mariota can even succeed at the NFL level for pete's sake. Also, Winston = EJ IMHO as well. Heck EJ had higher QB ratings his final year than Winston, who fell off as a Senior (which tells you something as well). Winston better mechanically, but will be unreliable on and off the field me thinks. We shall see.

[GG]

agree. bad QB class. pros completely unsure whether Mariota can even succeed at the NFL level for pete's sake. Also, Winston = EJ IMHO as well. Heck EJ had higher QB ratings his final year than Winston, who fell off as a Senior (which tells you something as well). Winston better mechanically, but will be unreliable on and off the field me thinks. We shall see.

 

The response was related to the 2014 class ...

[PromoTheRobot]

 

Stop being obtuse. Counting wins from a rookie QB class is borderline trolling. Maybe for you its across the line.

 

A deep class is the one where 5 guys are selected in the first 2 rounds. Classes of 2011 and 2012 look deep by historical comparison and bothe produced quality QBs. All those classes are better than the 2013 class.

You realize you're basing this statement on mere opinion? You think these QBs are great, so they are? They're draft position is not a guarantee of future performance.

 

Also why does a lack of wins for a rookie QB considering trolling for everyone but EJ Manuel?

Edited May 19, 2015 by PromoTheRobot

[GG]

You realize you're basing this statement on mere opinion? You think these QBs are great, so they are? They're draft position is not a guarantee of future performance.

 

Also why does a lack of wins for a rookie QB considering trolling for everyone but EJ Manuel?

 

It's an opinion based on strong documentary evidence. The only thing you have is constant trolling that mods overlook based on your tenure.

[Dorkington]

When does training camp start? This is killing me.

 

(Edit: Why did the "important offseason/preseason dates" thread disappear?)

Edited May 19, 2015 by Dorkington

[PromoTheRobot]

 

It's an opinion based on strong documentary evidence. The only thing you have is constant trolling that mods overlook based on your tenure.

It just dawned on me what you are doing. You cling to the absurd notion that all these QBs drafted the last two years are budding superstars not because you believe it, but to prop up your belief that the Bills, and half the teams in the NFL, don't have a legit starting QB because of incompetence, not because of an actual drought of QB talent the last few years.

 

My evidence says 12 wins between 5 starting QB's. What's your evidence say? Ironically, EJ has more wins (6) than all of them combined. (5)

Edited May 19, 2015 by PromoTheRobot

[GG]

It just dawned on me what you are doing. You cling to the absurd notion that all these QBs drafted the last two years are budding superstars not because you believe it, but to prop up your belief that the Bills, and half the teams in the NFL, don't have a legit starting QB because of incompetence, not because of an actual drought of QB talent the last few years.

 

My evidence says 12 wins between 5 starting QB's. What's your evidence say? Ironically, EJ has more wins (6) than all of them combined. (5)

 

Let's compare apples to apples, shall we?

 

2014 records

 

Bortles 3 wins - clear No. 1 QB heading into 2015

Bridgewater 6 wins - clear No. 1 QB heading into 2015

Carr 3 wins - clear No. 1 QB heading into 2015

Manziel 0 wins - benched for poor performance

Mettenberger 0 wins - started because QBs above him got hurt

 

Manuel - 2 wins - benched for poor performance, uncertain to make the roster

Geno - 3 wins - benched for poor performance, uncertain to make the roster

 

You were saying? Should we run a similar comparison to the 2011 and 2012 draft classes?

[PromoTheRobot]

 

Let's compare apples to apples, shall we?

 

2014 records

 

Bortles 3 wins - clear No. 1 QB heading into 2015

Bridgewater 6 wins - clear No. 1 QB heading into 2015

Carr 3 wins - clear No. 1 QB heading into 2015

Manziel 0 wins - benched for poor performance

Mettenberger 0 wins - started because QBs above him got hurt

 

Manuel - 2 wins - benched for poor performance, uncertain to make the roster

Geno - 3 wins - benched for poor performance, uncertain to make the roster

 

You were saying? Should we run a similar comparison to the 2011 and 2012 draft classes?

So you're saying that because a QB is the apparent starter going into next year, he's a stud? That has to be the weakest line of reasoning I've ever read on TBD. You cite Geno and EJ as comparison but to me they are all part of the same black hole of QB talent. We are in a massive QB talent drought right now.

Edited May 19, 2015 by PromoTheRobot

[BuffaloHokie13]

 

Let's compare apples to apples, shall we?

 

2014 records

 

Bortles 3 wins - clear No. 1 QB heading into 2015

Bridgewater 6 wins - clear No. 1 QB heading into 2015

Carr 3 wins - clear No. 1 QB heading into 2015

Manziel 0 wins - benched for poor performance

Mettenberger 0 wins - started because QBs above him got hurt

 

Manuel - 2 wins - benched for poor performance, uncertain to make the roster

Geno - 3 wins - benched for poor performance, uncertain to make the roster

 

You were saying? Should we run a similar comparison to the 2011 and 2012 draft classes?

if you were comparing apples to apples, wouldn't you use Geno and EJ's rookie win totals and team standing?

[YoloinOhio]

 

Let's compare apples to apples, shall we?

 

2014 records

 

Bortles 3 wins - clear No. 1 QB heading into 2015

Bridgewater 6 wins - clear No. 1 QB heading into 2015

Carr 3 wins - clear No. 1 QB heading into 2015

Manziel 0 wins - benched for poor performance

Mettenberger 0 wins - started because QBs above him got hurt

 

Manuel - 2 wins - benched for poor performance, uncertain to make the roster

Geno - 3 wins - benched for poor performance, uncertain to make the roster

 

You were saying? Should we run a similar comparison to the 2011 and 2012 draft classes?

Bortles and Carr were brutal but of course they are getting a second year.... what do you expect?

[GG]

So you're saying that because a QB is the apparent starter going into next year, he's a stud? That has to be the weakest line of reasoning I've ever read on TBD. You cite Geno and EJ as comparison but to me they are all part of the same black hole of QB talent. We are in a massive QB talent drought right now.

 

Good job with the trolling clinic. Please point out where I said "that because a QB is the apparent starter going into next year, he's a stud"

if you were comparing apples to apples, wouldn't you use Geno and EJ's rookie win totals and team standing?

 

Promo insisted on using the 2014 wins as the argument, so I obliged.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

if you were comparing apples to apples, wouldn't you use Geno and EJ's rookie win totals and team standing?

 

I don't understand why we're looking at win totals at all in a team game like football. I thought YPA, completion percentage, TD/INT ratio, turnovers/game played and such like metrics were considered the better way to evaluate QB, but WTF do I know?

 

I do think it's fair to point out that EJ had 4 wins as a rookie and was considered (by most) to be the #1 QB heading into his 2nd year, which would put him right up there with rookie performance of Bridgewater Bortles and Carr but I"m not sure what that really tells anyone. Bridgewater looked pretty good, promising as a rookie. Carr and Bortles looked pretty awful. Geno has shown more flashes than EJ to date, but he's also played almost twice as many games, and any time a QB has thrown more INTs than TDs (or even an equal number) it's not looking good for his team's prospects with him as a long term starter.

[BuffaloHokie13]

 

I don't understand why we're looking at win totals at all in a team game like football. I thought YPA, completion percentage, TD/INT ratio, turnovers/game played and such like metrics were considered the better way to evaluate QB, but WTF do I know?

 

I do think it's fair to point out that EJ had 4 wins as a rookie and was considered (by most) to be the #1 QB heading into his 2nd year, which would put him right up there with rookie performance of Bridgewater Bortles and Carr but I"m not sure what that really tells anyone. Bridgewater looked pretty good, promising as a rookie. Carr and Bortles looked pretty awful. Geno has shown more flashes than EJ to date, but he's also played almost twice as many games, and any time a QB has thrown more INTs than TDs (or even an equal number) it's not looking good for his team's prospects with him as a long term starter.

Yeah, my question was more about when to take stats from, rather than the metrics themselves. Though there really aren't many metrics I like overall for comparing QB's because of the whole team factor.

[PromoTheRobot]

 

I don't understand why we're looking at win totals at all in a team game like football. I thought YPA, completion percentage, TD/INT ratio, turnovers/game played and such like metrics were considered the better way to evaluate QB, but WTF do I know?

 

I do think it's fair to point out that EJ had 4 wins as a rookie and was considered (by most) to be the #1 QB heading into his 2nd year, which would put him right up there with rookie performance of Bridgewater Bortles and Carr but I"m not sure what that really tells anyone. Bridgewater looked pretty good, promising as a rookie. Carr and Bortles looked pretty awful. Geno has shown more flashes than EJ to date, but he's also played almost twice as many games, and any time a QB has thrown more INTs than TDs (or even an equal number) it's not looking good for his team's prospects with him as a long term starter.

I agree but the QB yardstick of choice here at TBD is wins and losses. "You are what your record says you are" is a common mantra. Although it gets turned and twisted to suit whoever is making the argument.

 

Good job with the trolling clinic. Please point out where I said "that because a QB is the apparent starter going into next year, he's a stud"

You keep bringing up "trolling" when all I'm doing is debating your points. Is responding to you trolling? I disagree with your assessment of the quality of the 2014 QB class. You say it's full of budding superstars and I say it's crap, like every year since Luck was drafted. Agree to disagree.

Edited May 19, 2015 by PromoTheRobot

[GG]

I agree but the QB yardstick of choice here at TBD is wins and losses. "You are what your record says you are" is a common mantra. Although it gets turned and twisted to suit whoever is making the argument.

You keep bringing up "trolling" when all I'm doing is debating your points. Is responding to you trolling? I disagree with your assessment of the quality of the 2014 QB class. You say it's full of budding superstars and I say it's crap, like every year since Luck was drafted. Agree to disagree.

 

You aren't debating anything but keep twisting around arguments in your crusade against fans who are critical of the team's moves. How has that worked out for you until this year?

 

So, if you're willing to engage in an honest debate - please tell me how the 2013 QB class was better quality than the 2011, 2012 and 2014 classes?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Yeah, my question was more about when to take stats from, rather than the metrics themselves. Though there really aren't many metrics I like overall for comparing QB's because of the whole team factor.

 

True, dat. Team factor matters. Coaching/offensive scheme matter. I do think there are some metrics that have value. Completion percentage - it's not the end-all because a good, gamer QB will throw it away and hurt his completion percentage rather than take a sack or risk a turnover. But overall, yeah, it's a metric that shows you if a QB can find his open man and hit him, and QB have had very good completion percentage with very meh receiving corp. You need a guy hitting in at least the 60% range in the modern game. Turnovers per game is critical to me - if your QB is fumbling or throwing INTs even a world-class D gets snow-jobbed. Likewise TD/INT - it's very flashy if a guy is throwing a lot of TD, but if he's throwing as many INTs he's hurting the team as much as helping. Some people here are very up on YPA or A/YA as indicating that a QB is throwing downfield rather than taking the checkdown to the RB - me, not so much, Brady is going to the HOF on dink-n-dunk and YAC, but it does have some merit, QB who throw downfield and/or who hit a receiver in stride and allow him to pick up YAC tend to have higher YPA. So those are 3-4 metrics I think are useful.

[San-O]

 

You aren't debating anything but keep twisting around arguments in your crusade against fans who are critical of the team's moves. How has that worked out for you until this year?

 

So, if you're willing to engage in an honest debate - please tell me how the 2013 QB class was better quality than the 2011, 2012 and 2014 classes?

 

 

It's pointless IMO. Promo is an unabashed Bills homer and apologist of the 1st order, that I have seen.

[PromoTheRobot]

 

You aren't debating anything but keep twisting around arguments in your crusade against fans who are critical of the team's moves. How has that worked out for you until this year?

 

So, if you're willing to engage in an honest debate - please tell me how the 2013 QB class was better quality than the 2011, 2012 and 2014 classes?

My argument is all the QB classes have been bad since Luck. All of them.

[GG]

My argument is all the QB classes have been bad since Luck. All of them.

 

All 3 of the classes, compared to the highest rated QB coming out of college in decades? Nice sample size and no room for evaluating the relative quality of each of the three classes in question and where that leaves the Bills when they chose to target a QB in the worst of those three bad QB years?