FireChan Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 (edited) Well, I think a snide dismissal of what others are taking as a hopeful sign is worthy of being denigrated. If this offends you to the point of making a big production with me over it, I am sorry to have ruffled your delicate sensibility. Another personal attack. Snide? He pointed out that we heard the same things about our two last QB's, and you took the leapt that he has "a life so miserable..." The best part about this is that the defintion of "denigrate" is to criticize unfairly. Edited April 17, 2015 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 FC is gonna be so happy if EJ sucks, it's amazing. I think I need to participate less in these threads. I support EJ, I support Cassel, I support Tuel, and I support Taylor. For the sake of our franchise, I hope one of the younger guys steps up in a big way, so we don't need to worry about the position for the medium-long term. I feel EJ has the best shot, just because of experience, and abilities shown so far, and I'm encouraged by how hard he works. And /end Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 (edited) Im not going to go search for posts but I have seen numerous which claimed EJ would never be a good QB. You love to quibble about the tiniest parts of losts and ignore the overall post. Its a nice message board trick but adds little to the conversation. My intention was to point out another "nice message board trick," which is the twisting of another's argument into an absolute or a "guarantee" in order to make your position sound more sensible. It can be done for any topic. It's especially apparent when the post he was semi-responding said nothing even close to what he stated. Edited April 17, 2015 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Who Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 Another personal attack. Snide? He pointed out that we heard the same things about our two last QB's, and you took the leapt that he has "a life so miserable..." The best part about this is that the defintion of "denigrate" is to criticize unfairly. Full Definition of DENIGRATEtransitive verb 1 : to attack the reputation of : defame <denigrate one's opponents> 2 : to deny the importance or validity of You are aware that words have more than one meaning. The second is not inherently unfair. There's a fellow on another board who is much like you. He may be you for all I know. Evidently you enjoy this kind of thing. I don't, so chatter on if you must . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 Full Definition of DENIGRATE transitive verb 1 : to attack the reputation of : defame <denigrate one's opponents> 2 : to deny the importance or validity of You are aware that words have more than one meaning. The second is not inherently unfair. There's a fellow on another board who is much like you. He may be you for all I know. Evidently you enjoy this kind of thing. I don't, so chatter on if you must . . . But you didn't deny the validity of his argument, but instead, attacked or unfairly criticized him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 So, because other QBs have been reported as working and improving over the offseason, but then ended up not being great, that guarantees EJ sucks? Is that what we're going with now? I just think its because it has been SOOOOOO long since we have actually had a game changing qb......people protect themselves from believing a young QB might actually grow his game and improve I mean.....I get it....I really do. People dont want the let down At the same time.....we need to keep hoping the bills will actually fix this situation. EJ Manuel is that BEST hope because Cassell has reached his celing....and whatever the next QB drafted is an unknown. What we do know? EJ Manuel is - A hard worker - A good kid - Has ALL of the physical tools you could possibly want - A winner at the college level That is his foundation. Does it take more? Yes......but he does in fact have a foundation. If he can improve on that foundation is what everyone is waiting to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 (edited) I just think its because it has been SOOOOOO long since we have actually had a game changing qb......people protect themselves from believing a young QB might actually grow his game and improve I mean.....I get it....I really do. People dont want the let down At the same time.....we need to keep hoping the bills will actually fix this situation. EJ Manuel is that BEST hope because Cassell has reached his celing....and whatever the next QB drafted is an unknown. What we do know? EJ Manuel is - A hard worker - A good kid - Has ALL of the physical tools you could possibly want - A winner at the college level That is his foundation. Does it take more? Yes......but he does in fact have a foundation. If he can improve on that foundation is what everyone is waiting to see. Let’s go back a couple of years, we knew that EJ Manuel… - was a project QB who would take 2 or 3 years to develop into a starting NFL QB - was being developed by the Syracuse coaching staff in the NFL environment - was a kid who needed to sit on the bench for at least a year before being asked to begin the process of becoming the team’s franchise QB. All of these points are valid and indisputable points that the haters just like to either completely ignore or call them “excuses” when they are confronted with them. They pine away for Kyle Orton. Ironically, a guy whose first 14 games stats makes EJ Manuel’s 14 games stats look like a QB who’s the second coming of Joe Montana. How long did Matt Cassel have to develop on the bench before he was given his chance and made some hay with it? Tony Romo? Aaron Rodgers? How long did it take Drew Brees to even look like a starting NFL QB? 30 games? These guys don’t understand how big of a leap it is from college to the NFL and that the NFL is going to have to get “old school” in a hurry and start sitting these QBs they picked early in the draft. Because the college game is not developing them properly. These guys here who love to hate on Manuel are just choosing to be in the “hot pocket” crowd rather than understand there is real and valid hope Manuel can be the guy. What are the chances? IMO somewhere around the wide range of maybe 30-50%? It’s a wide range because we are going off of very little on the field proof. But from all that we’ve read, it seems like there is still reason to believe that Manuel is and always was a guy who was a project and would take 2 to 3 years and he actually does develop into a franchise QB. Edited April 17, 2015 by 1billsfan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDH Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 (edited) What we do know? EJ Manuel is - A hard worker - A good kid - Has ALL of the physical tools you could possibly want - A winner at the college level I'd also say that he's pretty bright. So you have a bright, hard working guy who has all the tools to be a good QB. That right there is why I'm willing to give him some time to figure it out. Edited April 18, 2015 by MDH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 Let’s go back a couple of years, we knew that EJ Manuel… - was a project QB who would take 2 or 3 years to develop into a starting NFL QB - was being developed by the Syracuse coaching staff in the NFL environment - was a kid who needed to sit on the bench for at least a year before being asked to begin the process of becoming the team’s franchise QB. All of these points are valid and indisputable points that the haters just like to either completely ignore or call them “excuses” when they are confronted with them. They pine away for Kyle Orton. Ironically, a guy whose first 14 games stats makes EJ Manuel’s 14 games stats look like a QB who’s the second coming of Joe Montana. How long did Matt Cassel have to develop on the bench before he was given his chance and made some hay with it? Tony Romo? Aaron Rodgers? How long did it take Drew Brees to even look like a starting NFL QB? 30 games? These guys don’t understand how big of a leap it is from college to the NFL and that the NFL is going to have to get “old school” in a hurry and start sitting these QBs they picked early in the draft. Because the college game is not developing them properly. These guys here who love to hate on Manuel are just choosing to be in the “hot pocket” rather than understand there is real and valid hope Manuel can be the guy. What are the chances? IMO somewhere around the wide range of maybe 30-50%? It’s a wide range because we are going off of very little on the field proof. But from all that we’ve read, it seem alike there is still reason to believe that Manuel is and always was a guy who was a project and would take 2 to 3 years and he actually develops into a franchise QB. I honestly think that people that hate on EJ Manuel are being way short sighted team wise - Is there a chance he is not the guy.....yes there is (and there really is) but Think about the alternatives Lets be honest here....Matt Cassell is NOT the long term answer. He is a band aid to bridge us to whoever is going to be that QB. Now lets say for arguement sake that EJ ends up not being the solution. That means drafting a QB in next years draft in the 1st round. First round QBs need time........just like EJ Manuel SHOULD have gotten (and by time I mean holding a clipboard behind a vetean...not ruining the chances of a super bowl caliber defense to play in the playoffs) THAT is what we have to look forward to if EJ Manuel ends up not being the answer Keep that in mind folks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 I honestly think that people that hate on EJ Manuel are being way short sighted team wise - Is there a chance he is not the guy.....yes there is (and there really is) but Think about the alternatives Lets be honest here....Matt Cassell is NOT the long term answer. He is a band aid to bridge us to whoever is going to be that QB. Now lets say for arguement sake that EJ ends up not being the solution. That means drafting a QB in next years draft in the 1st round. First round QBs need time........just like EJ Manuel SHOULD have gotten (and by time I mean holding a clipboard behind a vetean...not ruining the chances of a super bowl caliber defense to play in the playoffs) THAT is what we have to look forward to if EJ Manuel ends up not being the answer Keep that in mind folks Just because it's the best case scenario, doesn't mean you believe in it. Best case scenario for my life is winning the lottery tomorrow. I don't believe it will happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Who Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 Just because it's the best case scenario, doesn't mean you believe in it. Best case scenario for my life is winning the lottery tomorrow. I don't believe it will happen. The odds of EJ Manuel becoming a franchise qb are probably low, but not that low. You can exaggerate in either direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overseas Bills Fan Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 I'm curious what will happen if EJ puts up sick numbers. Please save all these EJ bashing comments and call out the hypocrites who said them now, but not in December if EJ has a monster year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 Just because it's the best case scenario, doesn't mean you believe in it. Best case scenario for my life is winning the lottery tomorrow. I don't believe it will happen. Chan.....come on now I'm curious what will happen if EJ puts up sick numbers. Please save all these EJ bashing comments and call out the hypocrites who said them now, but not in December if EJ has a monster year. Oh I am sure there are fans who are taking notes on who is saying what at this point For my part? Im not gonna call anybody out because I get it........the qb position is the most frustrating position and HAS BEEN the most frustrating postiion for years in this FIFTEEN YEAR playoff drought......and I have empathy with all those frustrated fans But I have not yet given up on EJ Manuel...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 (edited) The odds of EJ Manuel becoming a franchise qb are probably low, but not that low. You can exaggerate in either direction. Chan.....come on now Oh I am sure there are fans who are taking notes on who is saying what at this point For my part? Im not gonna call anybody out because I get it........the qb position is the most frustrating position and HAS BEEN the most frustrating postiion for years in this FIFTEEN YEAR playoff drought......and I have empathy with all those frustrated fans But I have not yet given up on EJ Manuel...... My intention was not to equate the odds, only to demonstrate a case where hope and belief diverge. Edited April 17, 2015 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 It is important to note that Watkins was responding to a question about EJ, not making a statement that he thinks EJ should start over Cassel. 7 pages is way too much over comments like these (yes, I realize I just added to it). It's good to hear that EJ has been working hard and looking good. I hope he put it all together this offseason, but there really isn't much to be said one way or the other until he shows what he has on game day. No need for any cheering or any griping at this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 (edited) But you didn't deny the validity of his argument, but instead, attacked or unfairly criticized him. oh boo hoo poor chan doesn't like being called out. there is a REPORT button. Use it. If the Mods are in a like mind they will take action. I'm curious what will happen if EJ puts up sick numbers. Please save all these EJ bashing comments and call out the hypocrites who said them now, but not in December if EJ has a monster year. trust me, IF EJ has a banner you will hear a lot of I told you so's and a lot of back peddling from the detractors. if EJ is that bad, then they can say the same but it will be less of an impact because no one is guaranteeing EJ is a Franchise QB. Edited April 18, 2015 by BillsFan-4-Ever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 (edited) oh boo hoo poor chan doesn't like being called out. there is a REPORT button. Use it. If the Mods are in a like mind they will take action. trust me, IF EJ has a banner you they will hear a lot of I told you so's and a lot of back peddling from the detractors. if EJ is that bad, then they can say the same but it will be less of an impact because no one is guaranteeing EJ is a Franchise QB. I wasn't talking about me. See how I used the word "him?" Edited April 17, 2015 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 (edited) so you were arguing with yourself???? Edited April 17, 2015 by BillsFan-4-Ever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 so you were arguing with yourself???? No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted April 18, 2015 Share Posted April 18, 2015 Just because it's the best case scenario, doesn't mean you believe in it. Best case scenario for my life is winning the lottery tomorrow. I don't believe it will happen. did you buy a ticket though ? : ) I dont even know what semantics are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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