gumby Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 Poorly crafted pole. Is that a punch line to some polish joke? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 This is a poll to judge the general consensus of Bills fans with respect to the abilities of EJ. Do the Bills here fans think that EJ can succeed or do you believe EJ is a total bust Where's the MAYBE button??? It will be interesting to see what EJ has learned this past season. I heard he worked a lot on his timing. He also studied Orton's preparation and leadership. And this year he'll have the opportunity to work with David Lee who has a talent with young QBs. And Rex Roman who transformed Alex Smith into a viable NFL starter. A better running game will help too. Maybe this is the year EJ emerges as a franchise QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metzelaars_lives Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 We should start a new poll: Will EJ Manuel ever have as good of a season as Matt Cassel did in 2010? Led his team to the playoffs, 10-5 record, made the Pro Bowl, 27 TD's, 7 INT's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prissythecat Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 With Cassel on board and possibility of another veteran QB being brought in, does EJ have realistic chance of being starter this season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 We should start a new poll: Will EJ Manuel ever have as good of a season as Matt Cassel did in 2010? Led his team to the playoffs, 10-5 record, made the Pro Bowl, 27 TD's, 7 INT's. You mean in his 6th year like Cassel or now? And considering his QB rating is basically the same as Cassel's sure why not? And yes EJ can be the starter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uffalo Ills Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 To quote the OP...."IN". feeding some of his own bitter medicine, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metzelaars_lives Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 (edited) You mean in his 6th year like Cassel or now? And considering his QB rating is basically the same as Cassel's sure why not? And yes EJ can be the starter. Ever. OK so you are on record as saying that at some point before he hangs it up, Manuel WILL have a season that good. I don't think he will. Do you think Geno Smith will? He's only played two seasons too. See I don't think Geno Smith will either. Edited March 4, 2015 by metzelaars_lives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted March 4, 2015 Author Share Posted March 4, 2015 Where's the MAYBE button??? It will be interesting to see what EJ has learned this past season. I heard he worked a lot on his timing. He also studied Orton's preparation and leadership. And this year he'll have the opportunity to work with David Lee who has a talent with young QBs. And Rex Roman who transformed Alex Smith into a viable NFL starter. A better running game will help too. Maybe this is the year EJ emerges as a franchise QB. apologies .. The intent was to determine the # of people who think EJ can be (can earn and not by default) the starter in Buffalo this season and those who say he's a FAILURE and should never be the #1 there is no in-between. The in-betweens are polled in the other threads is he a Franchise QB, Can he lead the team to the playoffs. If said participants did not vote what they feel then the fault is there's if the percentages are wrong. and YES, I do hope this is the year EJ emerges as a franchise QB. I'll not go that far just yet. Hey let's put this debate on ice for a while, shall we? Here's to hoping Womanuel comes to camp ready to go and wins the job once and for all. As I've stated over and over, nothing would make me happier. How long did that last? 5 minutes? :blush: :blush: :blush: WE ALL KNOW YOU HATE EJ MANUEL you have proved that 20 times a day with the endless rants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 Ever. OK so you are on record as saying that at some point before he hangs it up, Manuel WILL have a season that good. I don't think he will. Do you think Geno Smith will? He's only played two seasons too. See I don't think Geno Smith will either. Geno has throw more INTs than TDs and can't figure out how to tell time. When EJ does this, then I will be worried. I just how people try to predict the future. It's stupid, especially with QBs. But I'm sure you knew Brady and Rodgers should have been drafted higher and Johnny Football was a bust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metzelaars_lives Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 Geno has throw more INTs than TDs and can't figure out how to tell time. When EJ does this, then I will be worried. I just how people try to predict the future. It's stupid, especially with QBs. But I'm sure you knew Brady and Rodgers should have been drafted higher and Johnny Football was a bust. Dude come on man. How can you call Johnny Football a bust and champion Manuel's cause? Manziel only started one game. I am not positive that EJ Manuel is not cut out to be an NFL QB it's just my prediction based on what I've seen so far. The only thing I ask is that if and when it becomes more apparent that EJ Manuel is not cut out to be an NFL QB that you don't say, "I wasn't wrong before, I just needed to see more- we didn't know then and now we know" and instead say, "hey to those who said EJ Manuel was not fit to be an NFL QB, you were right and I was wrong." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 We should start a new poll: Will EJ Manuel ever have as good of a season as Matt Cassel did in 2010? Led his team to the playoffs, 10-5 record, made the Pro Bowl, 27 TD's, 7 INT's. *Will* he? Who knows. *Can* he? Yes, I believe he has the capability to do so in the right situation, with proper development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
respk Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 Can he? Maybe, but I highly doubt it. Will he? I highly doubt it. The Bills just traded for a QB. I'm thinking that indicates two things, The Bills brain trust don't think he can and if somehow Manuel and Cassell are equal the Bills braintrust will lean towards Cassell. If the Bills just wanted competition, they could have signed FAs. They actually took the time and resources to trade for the "competition". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted March 5, 2015 Author Share Posted March 5, 2015 Can he? Maybe, but I highly doubt it. Will he? I highly doubt it. The Bills just traded for a QB. I'm thinking that indicates two things, The Bills brain trust don't think he can and if somehow Manuel and Cassell are equal the Bills braintrust will lean towards Cassell. If the Bills just wanted competition, they could have signed FAs. They actually took the time and resources to trade for the "competition". OR simply the Bills traded for an experienced backup to Tuel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 You love to make fun of other QB's, don't you? Trent Dilfer showed more in this league than EJ has or probably will even without his Super Bowl ring. Listen, this will all be over soon. When EJ loses out on the starting job to either Locker or the QB they take at 50, what are you going to say then? Are you going to call the new coaching staff morons for passing over on EJ even though he will have shown no improvement in the offseason again? He will still have his "only 14 games" thing intact so you can keep saying that to everyone. And then when Locker isn't that good either are you gonna start "I told you so" threads, complaining that EJ should've been the starter even though Locker was clearly better all camp and preseason? At some point the guy has to show us something. And does everyone need a dumb nickname? Shankchez? He was better last year than Manuel has ever been. Did you watch the game on Thanksgiving? One thing we can all agree on is that "Womanuel" better be prepared come springtime because he is gonna be on a short leash. Rex wants to win right now. I read this and then looked at the name to see who it is I should be disappointed in. I was sorry to see it was you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 (edited) Can he? Maybe, but I highly doubt it. Will he? I highly doubt it. The Bills just traded for a QB. I'm thinking that indicates two things, The Bills brain trust don't think he can and if somehow Manuel and Cassell are equal the Bills braintrust will lean towards Cassell. If the Bills just wanted competition, they could have signed FAs. They actually took the time and resources to trade for the "competition". I've been giving this a good bit of thought. I think your last sentence is very important. I think your conclusion that the Bills brain trust doesn't think EJ can do it or if he and Cassel are equal the nod goes to Cassel is wrong. Here's why. The Bills made a serious press for McCown. Then they made a trade for Cassel. Why? What made these two guys stand out to the Bills that they couldn't just say "there's about 8 FA available that all look like the same guy, meh, we need a body, one of them will come here, keep our picks?" Here's a table with some statistical aspects of QB play that I look at when thinking about QB: Cassell (33 yrs) - 90 games, 172 y/g, 80.1 rating, 59% , 1.37:1 td/int, 6.6 ypa, 0.5 fumbles/game, 1.3 TO/game Campbell (33 yrs) - 90 games, 186 y/g, 81.7 rating, 60%, 1.45:1 td/int, 6.7 ypa, 0.6 fumbles/game, 1.2 TO/game Moore (30yrs) - 49 games, 109 y/g, 79.2 rating, 59%, 1.18:1 td/int, 7.0 ypa, 0.5 fumbles/game, 1.1 TO/game Locker (26yrs) - 30 games, 166 y/g, 79.0 rating, 57.5%, 1.23:1 td/int, 7.0 avg, 0.3 fumbles/game, 1.1 TO/game McCoy (28yrs) - 33 games, 165 y/g, 78.2 rating, 60.3%, 1.09:1 td/int, 6.6 avg, 0.6 fumbles/game, 1.2 TO/game Hoyer (29yrs) - 32 games, 142 y/g, 76.8 rating, 56.5%, 1:1 td/int, 7.2 avg, 0.2 fumbles/game, 0.75 TO/game Ponder (27yrs) - 38 games, 175 y/g, 75.9 rating, 59.8%, 1.06:1 td/int, 6.3 avg, 0.5 fumbles/game, 1.5 TO/game Sanchez (28 yrs) - 37 games, 204 y/g, 74 rating, 56.3%, 1.02:1 td/int, 6.7 avg, 1.4 fumbles/game, 1.8 TO/game McCown (35 yrs) - 73 games, 150 y/g, 76.1 rating, 58.8%, 1.03:1 td/int, 6.6 avg, 0.72 fumbles/game, 1.5 TO/game Here's what I see looking at the pattern (McCown, then Cassel) 1. they want a seasoned veteran who has been around a while and played in several systems. These are both guys who have started 4-5 seasons worth of games at this point, in several systems. 2. they want a guy who has started recently. These are both guys who won the starting job last year over a "young gun" with promise. Moore, who I think may be a better QB, hasn't started a game since 2011. 3. they are not looking, in this acquisition, for a guy for the long term or they wouldn't be looking at these dinosaur dudes. 1 and 2 together rule out most of the FA. They're either younger guys without as much experience, or (Moore) haven't started in several years. It would seem to leave Campbell, but he left Oakland after a serious shoulder injury and they might have concerns about that (or maybe some inside gouge that would make it seem tough to land him as a FA) Here's what this says to me: They want a mentor for one or more young guys, but one who will mentor with an edge with a track record which says "listen up, Bub, shape up and keep up or you'll be sitting right there with a clipboard in September watching me show you how it's done". I think they are looking for a specific type of mentor. I think the need for a mentor argues that you have someone you think is worth mentoring, and if it's close, overall good of the franchise says it goes to the young guy. That young guy may be EJ - I mean, he's here, and looking for a specific type of mentor sort of argues that you have a guy you think needs a specific sort of mentoring. But one can't rule out that there is someone else, either in the draft or a FA in his late 20s whom they plan to make a run for (a guy in his late 20s is a fine mentor for a 3rd year guy, but not for a peer), in which case yeah, EJ could still wind up on the street. One thing that totally stands out to me putting this table together, is that historically Sanchez just sucks, SUCKS at turnovers per game. He's the worst out there with almost 2 TO/game and it's not even close. Polian and/or Dominic made the comment that if you plan to pound the rock and give your D a break, you don't want TO. I hope that means they don't want Sanchez. Edited March 5, 2015 by Hopeful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jets Hater Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 Voted NO. I simply think he does not have it . Does that mean I'm rooting against him? Not at all. I would gladly eat some crow if I'm wrong. Unfortunately, I don't think I am. We need to move on from EJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metzelaars_lives Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 (edited) I read this and then looked at the name to see who it is I should be disappointed in. I was sorry to see it was you. Yeah I was a little fired up. If you would like to read a friendlier and more intelligent EJ debate instead, read the "Joe B QB take" thread. A bunch of us had a great back and forth last night for a while. Here is what I said in that thread regarding this whole debate: The thing is that I totally respect everything you're saying. Stranger things have happened than EJ Manuel developing into a franchise QB. I think the problem with a lot of the dialogue on here the last few days is that the EJ supporters (I support the guy too by the way- I'm a Bills fan, I just want good QB play, I don't care who it's from) are very intolerant of the people who think (as I do) that the chances of him becoming that guy are very slim. They insist "there's simply no way of knowing yet" and "he's only played 14 games." Some think there is no chance at all of him succeeding. I respect that opinion too. What I don't respect is when certain posters mock other QB's in the league who have proven more than Manuel, yet are ardent Manuel defenders. I also said this: I thought Manuel should've played against New England too. Clearly Marrone was obsessed with getting to 9-7 because he knew he was going to quit and he thought the winning record would make him more marketable. I think my biggest issue here is that I haven't been burying Manuel since he was drafted. I loved the pick and I thought for sure he was gonna be our guy after the Carolina game. I just get pissed when people tell me I'm not allowed to take what I saw all last camp, all last preseason, the San Diego and Houston games and formulate the opinion that I think the chances of him succeeding at this point are very slim. Edited March 5, 2015 by metzelaars_lives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garranimal Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 *Will* he? Who knows. *Can* he? Yes, I believe he has the capability to do so in the right situation, with proper development. Can he? Yes Should he? No Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDH Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 (edited) Dude come on man. How can you call Johnny Football a bust and champion Manuel's cause? Manziel only started one game. I am not positive that EJ Manuel is not cut out to be an NFL QB it's just my prediction based on what I've seen so far. The only thing I ask is that if and when it becomes more apparent that EJ Manuel is not cut out to be an NFL QB that you don't say, "I wasn't wrong before, I just needed to see more- we didn't know then and now we know" and instead say, "hey to those who said EJ Manuel was not fit to be an NFL QB, you were right and I was wrong." Why should anybody who is "championing" EJ say that? All people are saying is that it's impossible to tell right now, not that he's a shoe in to be a quality starter. Why is this so hard to understand? I can predict that every single QB coming out of college will suck and be right 95% of the time. It doesn't mean I have a clue. Edited March 5, 2015 by MDH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 Can he? Yes Should he? No You don't want him to develop into a competent starter? Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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