Kirby Jackson Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/12352779/martin-mayhew-detroit-lions-proposes-penalties-fall-instant-replay-stipulations This just seems to make too much sense to not pass IMO. Even Fisher's argument against it is terrible: Jeff Fisher, who is the co-chairman of the competition committtee, was asked Friday at the scouting combine if there was a way to review some penalties and not others. "Right now everything is reviewable, except penalties," Fisher said. "It will be discussed, but there's -- something that's flagged, you have two standards and, to me, that's the biggest concern with it, is you have an on-the-field, full speed, bang-bang call made by the official -- we'll just say pass interference -- and now you're going to go to replay and you're going to go frame by frame by frame to determine whether it is or not. "I'm not sure we want to go [there] with our game right now." I mean what? The goal is to get it right. You go frame by frame to see if a guy crossed the goal line. Why wouldn't you go frame by frame to see if it was PI or not??? Hopefully this rule will be passed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 (edited) you could simply review at full speed. i assume it will only overturn calls, and not effect missed calls. heres the tough spot though kirby.... the ball crosses the line is a TD 100% of the time every time, all the time. a guy steps out of bounds and its again yes or no.... lets say its a borderline pass interference call that is flagged. they go back and look and yes technically it was contact but maybe less than it looked like. gets dicey on whether to overturn, right? id be curious the training on some of the calls that are more art than science if put under review. Edited February 20, 2015 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubes Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 There's something to be said about doing that, but the problem is really how you go about defining some of these penalties. How do you define defensive holding? How much needs to be held to qualify for that? What about illegal contact, or pass interference for that matter? Does any tiny little bit of contact qualify? If not, how much? If the DB makes contact with the receiver one video frame before the ball arrives, does that make it PI? Do we really want to go there? I get the idea that we want to correct obviously bad calls, but for some of these, the line between legal and illegal can be so fuzzy and difficult to define as to make this exercise crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeMonkey Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/12352779/martin-mayhew-detroit-lions-proposes-penalties-fall-instant-replay-stipulations This just seems to make too much sense to not pass IMO. Even Fisher's argument against it is terrible: Jeff Fisher, who is the co-chairman of the competition committtee, was asked Friday at the scouting combine if there was a way to review some penalties and not others. "Right now everything is reviewable, except penalties," Fisher said. "It will be discussed, but there's -- something that's flagged, you have two standards and, to me, that's the biggest concern with it, is you have an on-the-field, full speed, bang-bang call made by the official -- we'll just say pass interference -- and now you're going to go to replay and you're going to go frame by frame by frame to determine whether it is or not. "I'm not sure we want to go [there] with our game right now." I mean what? The goal is to get it right. You go frame by frame to see if a guy crossed the goal line. Why wouldn't you go frame by frame to see if it was PI or not??? Hopefully this rule will be passed. Oh lord, like the games aren't painfully long as it is already. TV will love it though, more time to show more ads. TV makes more money, so NFL charges more money. As much as it would suck, I can see it happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 There's something to be said about doing that, but the problem is really how you go about defining some of these penalties. How do you define defensive holding? How much needs to be held to qualify for that? What about illegal contact, or pass interference for that matter? Does any tiny little bit of contact qualify? If not, how much? If the DB makes contact with the receiver one video frame before the ball arrives, does that make it PI? Do we really want to go there? I get the idea that we want to correct obviously bad calls, but for some of these, the line between legal and illegal can be so fuzzy and difficult to define as to make this exercise crazy. was just typing the same after more thought than addressing simply the slo mo aspect. it could get really hazy and messy and the nfl is already subject to a lot of criticism. do they want to slow down the game while also potentially opening up that box? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeMonkey Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 you could simply review at full speed. i assume it will only overturn calls, and not effect missed calls. Why not, if the reason for doing this is "to get it right". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 (edited) Why not, if the reason for doing this is "to get it right".id throw the flag to challenge a missed hold on every touchdown play scored. 100% of them. which is part of the trouble with this. Edited February 20, 2015 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mountainwampus Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 This would clear up a lot of those defensive holdings where the replay shows zero contact and everyone assumes the ref just called the wrong number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubes Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 This would clear up a lot of those defensive holdings where the replay shows zero contact and everyone assumes the ref just called the wrong number. Some, but not that many. What constitutes holding? Do all five fingers need to be enclosed around the other player? Does a body part need to be redirected, or is it enough to just briefly hold part of a guy's jersey without having any noticeable effect on him? It's just too fuzzy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Just make a called PI penalty reviewable. Those are the most game changing plays because they are spot fouls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Just make a called PI penalty reviewable. Those are the most game changing plays because they are spot fouls. what can you overturn it on? only NO contact at all or the ball a mile away? that would be the indisputable evidence standard in theory? or would you let refs judge incidental contact on it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo2218 Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/12352779/martin-mayhew-detroit-lions-proposes-penalties-fall-instant-replay-stipulations This just seems to make too much sense to not pass IMO. Even Fisher's argument against it is terrible: Jeff Fisher, who is the co-chairman of the competition committtee, was asked Friday at the scouting combine if there was a way to review some penalties and not others. "Right now everything is reviewable, except penalties," Fisher said. "It will be discussed, but there's -- something that's flagged, you have two standards and, to me, that's the biggest concern with it, is you have an on-the-field, full speed, bang-bang call made by the official -- we'll just say pass interference -- and now you're going to go to replay and you're going to go frame by frame by frame to determine whether it is or not. "I'm not sure we want to go [there] with our game right now." I mean what? The goal is to get it right. You go frame by frame to see if a guy crossed the goal line. Why wouldn't you go frame by frame to see if it was PI or not??? Hopefully this rule will be passed. PI should definitely be reviewable as much yardage a team can get from it. Defensive PI gets what? 30, 40, 50 yards? Offensive PI gets 10, should be 10 and loss of down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted February 20, 2015 Author Share Posted February 20, 2015 id throw the flag to challenge a missed hold on every touchdown play scored. 100% of them. which is part of the trouble with this. It only applies to plays where the flag was thrown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Jerky Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Oh lord, like the games aren't painfully long as it is already. TV will love it though, more time to show more ads. TV makes more money, so NFL charges more money. As much as it would suck, I can see it happening. What are you talking about? You still have the same number of challenges... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo2218 Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Wonder what the outcome of the game against the Phins last year would have been had Gilmore not been called for probably the most bogus PI call of the year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 It only applies to plays where the flag was thrown. thats what i figured but someone directly asked about why not the opposite. Wonder what the outcome of the game against the Phins last year would have been had Gilmore not been called for probably the most bogus PI call of the year? replay showed he (barely) beat the ball there. thats exactly the type of call i dont think you could possibly overturn. What are you talking about? You still have the same number of challenges... but with more calls able to be challenged, id venture you see fewer go unused. not an insane gap, but... i dont think hes totally wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Jerky Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 (edited) thats what i figured but someone directly asked about why not the opposite. replay showed he (barely) beat the ball there. thats exactly the type of call i dont think you could possibly overturn. but with more calls able to be challenged, id venture you see fewer go unused. not an insane gap, but... i dont think hes totally wrong 3 min at most... Don't forget you lose a timeout if you are wrong. You also can't challenge if you have no timeouts. Edited February 20, 2015 by Beef Jerky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 what can you overturn it on? only NO contact at all or the ball a mile away? that would be the indisputable evidence standard in theory? or would you let refs judge incidental contact on it? De novo. Just another set of eyes doing an independent review based on the same standard that officials use on the field. It will be a judgment call-- but so is the original call. I never understood the indisputable evidence standard; the cameras offer a better perspective oftentimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Just change the PI rule..Should not be a spot foul. Its by far the biggest game changer in sports. Also basically every defensive foul is a 1st down, change that. 5 yard illegal contact should not be an automatic 1st down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Just change the PI rule..Should not be a spot foul. Its by far the biggest game changer in sports. Also basically every defensive foul is a 1st down, change that. 5 yard illegal contact should not be an automatic 1st down. Agree completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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