Fadingpain Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerbroker Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 (edited) Banacek and Thomas Crown needed Would have made a great headline... Banacek clears Belicheck or Belichick caught by Banacek storyline for the tv show? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banacek Edited January 27, 2015 by powerbroker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 The guy who said it is the former HEAD OF OFFICIALS for the NFL. You have claimed no knowledge or wrongly reported stories and a dozen times I gave links showing you you're wrong. Every time. If you don't want to believe the story, don't. That's fine. But don't post stuff that isn't true, and then deny it isn't true, like saying there aren't any reports of Colts balls being checked at halftime. There are reports all over. I simply googled Colts deflated halftime and all kinds of stories came up from different legit sources. Great, there is an NFL statement confirming that, and that was all I ever asked and until now it was not provided. All i got back were twitter reports from you and others which have been all over the place and I don't trust. Below is my exact post from earlier. I specifically said that my comments were solely directed to the information in the post, and that if true it makes sense however nothing in the post mentioned that. I even stated I had not had a chance to read Peter Kings post and in other posts asked if we know for sure or not the balls were inflated. Since then, all I was shown was twitter comments, not an official NFL statement. And all I said all along is that I just want to see what is confirmed by the NFL before the information can be analyzed. So thank you for finally showing me the NFL statement, thats all I wanted to see. My post from earlier: But thats not what it says in his post...says nothing about them being inflated again at half time by the refs in what he posted. If that is true, then I see where comments come from and makes sense what he is saying. So if that was also stated, its not in that post I responded too. Like I said, I only responded to what the poster posted as I have not yet seen the Peter King article myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Maybe, maybe not. People are grossly simplifying and over-analyzing one single statistical measure, though. I'd wager that, while lower pressure does make the ball easier to hold, HOW you hold the ball is a much, much bigger factor. And one further note: With this whole fumbles argument, all the "statistical analysis" I'm seeing is that on a season-by-season basis the Patriots rate of fumbling became a serious statistical outlier after the away team got to control their own footballs in 2007. (E.g. http://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/blog/2015/the-new-england-patriots-mysteriously-became-fumble-proof-in-2007). That's a very shallow analysis. The hypothesis is that the Patriots benefited from being in control of their own footballs during away games. Comparing seasonal fumble statistics doesn't prove that. If anyone wants to demonstrate there was a true benefit to the Pats using their own balls, compare the rates of fumbling between home and away games before 2007, then compare then after. If home vs. away fumbles are very different before 2007, then very similar afterwards, THEN there's some confirmation that the statistical outlier is more than just random dumb luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBillsWillRiseAgain Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Pretty odd that you have the likes of the Wall Street Journal, Huffpost, and other news organizations posting that article if it's so flawed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Pretty odd that you have the likes of the Wall Street Journal, Huffpost, and other news organizations posting that article if it's so flawed. I read something in Fortune Mag that indicated how both Bellyache and Brady were lying. Smile, joked but no emotional pissyness with being accused of wrongdoing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Pretty odd that you have the likes of the Wall Street Journal, Huffpost, and other news organizations posting that article if it's so flawed. Because no one's ever repeated an inaccurate, flawed, bull **** story before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Great, there is an NFL statement confirming that, and that was all I ever asked and until now it was not provided. All i got back were twitter reports from you and others which have been all over the place and I don't trust. Below is my exact post from earlier. I specifically said that my comments were solely directed to the information in the post, and that if true it makes sense however nothing in the post mentioned that. I even stated I had not had a chance to read Peter Kings post and in other posts asked if we know for sure or not the balls were inflated. Since then, all I was shown was twitter comments, not an official NFL statement. And all I said all along is that I just want to see what is confirmed by the NFL before the information can be analyzed. So thank you for finally showing me the NFL statement, thats all I wanted to see. My post from earlier: But thats not what it says in his post...says nothing about them being inflated again at half time by the refs in what he posted. If that is true, then I see where comments come from and makes sense what he is saying. So if that was also stated, its not in that post I responded too. Like I said, I only responded to what the poster posted as I have not yet seen the Peter King article myself. No, your problem was you were continually making statements that were not true, like there were no reports from the league (when there were), there were no reports of the Colts balls being checked at halftime (when there were lots), all reports have been "proven false" (which was not true), that reports said the Ravens were involves in two games (no, that was the Colts, which was true), that it was just some guy on twitter (when it was the ex-Head of the Referees), etc. There were more, too. Just because you didn't read them don't deny they exist. That's what people were jumping on you for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 (edited) No, your problem was you were continually making statements that were not true, like there were no reports from the league (when there were), there were no reports of the Colts balls being checked at halftime (when there were lots), all reports have been "proven false" (which was not true), that reports said the Ravens were involves in two games (no, that was the Colts, which was true), that it was just some guy on twitter (when it was the ex-Head of the Referees), etc. There were more, too. Just because you didn't read them don't deny they exist. That's what people were jumping on you for. lmao...I never once said all reports were proven false, man you are delusional. I said multiple reports were proven wrong/inaccurate and there were some that contradict others and most were still not proven or disproven. For instance...how can both reports be true: 11 balls were 2 PSI off...followed by 1 ball was 2 PSI off and the others not nearly as off. They can't both be true...there fore one is 100% for sure wrong, and they both could be wrong, but they both can't be correct. Dude seriously... And the initial reports were that D'Qwell said the ball felt funny after the INT and thats how this came up...he flat out stated that was not true and that he just wanted to keep a souvenir and noticed nothing about the ball. There were reports that the Ravens felt there was something wrong with the balls and suspected the Pats...Yet Harbaugh categorically denied ever having any suspicion of foul play, manipulation, of anything of their kicking balls. So stop already...I NEVER once said ALL reports...I have never even stated more than those...I said that multiple reports have either been wrong, inaccurate or contradict other reports. And I asked if there was any NFL official response specifically about the half time inflation of the balls multiple times. I have said all along, I just want to see what the NFL knows and I was unaware of that statement, and despite me asking multiple times if that information had been confirmed by the NFL, no one said it was, including you. Edited January 27, 2015 by Alphadawg7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBillsWillRiseAgain Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Because no one's ever repeated an inaccurate, flawed, bull **** story before. Not without backlash. I don't see anyone else complaining that the study is flawed except you guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 (edited) Not without backlash. I don't see anyone else complaining that the study is flawed except you guys. Not sure what study you guys are talking about, in terms of backlash its hard to have backlash if the story supports public opinion...and they are guilty in the court of public opinion. Personally, I just want this to end conclusively so it can be moved on from...I doubt it will, and have even less faith that it will conclude prior to the game. The impact it had is non existent on the game in question, especially since they played better with properly inflated balls. However, if proven guilty, the NFL has to take action. I don't think the action is as severe as what people are screaming for as the offense isn't nearly as serious as this has turned into, especially given the other Star QB of the NFC championship game, Aaron Rodgers, apparently said he likes to try and beat the system by over inflating them and seeing if the refs catch it and deflate them. Its clearly a preference issue more than an impactful advantage. Guys like Peyton Manning have petitioned and won with the NFL to have more control over their teams game footballs. Given the wide range of hand size, grip strength, etc I feel the allowable range is too narrow. That being said, if they deliberately broke a rule or pushed the envelope too far, then action should be taken. I personally think a hefty fine is sufficient, but wouldnt be against losing a 4th round draft pick as well. Edited January 27, 2015 by Alphadawg7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBillsWillRiseAgain Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Not sure what study you guys are talking about, in terms of backlash its hard to have backlash if the story supports public opinion. http://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/blog/2015/the-new-england-patriots-mysteriously-became-fumble-proof-in-2007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 lmao...I never once said all reports were proven false, man you are delusional. I said multiple reports were proven wrong/inaccurate and there were some that contradict others and most were still not proven or disproven. For instance...how can both reports be true: 11 balls were 2 PSI off...followed by 1 ball was 2 PSI off and the others not nearly as off. They can't both be true...there fore one is 100% for sure wrong, and they both could be wrong, but they both can't be correct. Dude seriously... And the initial reports were that D'Qwell said the ball felt funny after the INT and thats how this came up...he flat out stated that was not true and that he just wanted to keep a souvenir and noticed nothing about the ball. There were reports that the Ravens felt there was something wrong with the balls and suspected the Pats...Yet Harbaugh categorically denied ever having any suspicion of foul play, manipulation, of anything of their kicking balls. So stop already...I NEVER once said ALL reports...I have never even stated more than those...I said that multiple reports have either been wrong, inaccurate or contradict other reports. And I asked if there was any NFL official response specifically about the half time inflation of the balls multiple times. I have said all along, I just want to see what the NFL knows and I was unaware of that statement, and despite me asking multiple times if that information had been confirmed by the NFL, no one said it was, including you. When you said "the reports were false, just like all the other leaks", I took that to mean all reports. Since you have continually downplayed every major report, that also sounds like all have been false. Your rebuttal of the Ravens is just flat wrong, and I showed you specifically why, and yet you continually keep saying it. I will stop. Neither of us is going to chance the other's mind. Good luck on your madman theories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 (edited) http://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/blog/2015/the-new-england-patriots-mysteriously-became-fumble-proof-in-2007 Gotcha, thanks One thing about this fumble issue...Has anyone taken into account that the Pats players literally carry every ball like its their last? You can run for 4 TDs one day and be gone the next...see Jonas Grey and several other Pats players. Unless you are elite like Gronk or Brady, if you fumble not only will you likely not play much, if at all, the rest of the game, but you also may not play again. Its a different mentality in NE and ball control is enforced there like no other team in the NFL. The closest other example is Tom Coughlin, but even he goes back to guy usually the next week. If you fumble in NE, you may not play again. I would imagine that it has an impact on how their guys protect the ball, not to mention, guys who can't protect the ball don't normally play in NE. I would say that is a significant factor in ball control in NE, more so than any PSI theories. When you said "the reports were false, just like all the other leaks", I took that to mean all reports. Since you have continually downplayed every major report, that also sounds like all have been false. Your rebuttal of the Ravens is just flat wrong, and I showed you specifically why, and yet you continually keep saying it. I will stop. Neither of us is going to chance the other's mind. Good luck on your madman theories. Edited January 27, 2015 by Alphadawg7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Gotcha, thanks One thing about this fumble issue...Has anyone taken into account that the Pats players literally carry every ball like its their last? You can run for 4 TDs one day and be gone the next...see Jonas Grey and several other Pats players. Unless you are elite like Gronk or Brady, if you fumble not only will you likely not play much, if at all, the rest of the game, but you also may not play again. Its a different mentality in NE and ball control is enforced there like no other team in the NFL. The closest other example is Tom Coughlin, but even he goes back to guy usually the next week. If you fumble in NE, you may not play again. I would imagine that it has an impact on how their guys protect the ball, not to mention, guys who can't protect the ball don't normally play in NE. I would say that is a significant factor in ball control in NE, more so than any PSI theories. So guys stop fumbling because BB gets mad? They go back and forth to other teams and fumble more because Mike Tomlin is a nice guy? And NE magically give carries to guys off the street and they fumble less? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 So guys stop fumbling because BB gets mad? They go back and forth to other teams and fumble more because Mike Tomlin is a nice guy? And NE magically give carries to guys off the street and they fumble less? new england didn't fumble in the second half of the indy game with properly inflated balls. maybe because guys who fumble don't get chances to fumble again. protect the rock or find a new team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jets Hater Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Not sure if this has been mentioned earlier, but the Pats are actually the ones who gave that video to the NFL a few days ago. It's obviously part of their defense strategy to have that video available... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 new england didn't fumble in the second half of the indy game with properly inflated balls. maybe because guys who fumble don't get chances to fumble again. protect the rock or find a new team. An entire half of a football game certainly is compelling when compared with data from 5 seasons. You're right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 An entire half of a football game certainly is compelling when compared with data from 5 seasons. You're right. or maybe BB decided 5 years ago he would part ways with players who fumble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 or maybe BB decided 5 years ago he would part ways with players who fumble. Reading comprehension much? They fumble more at other places. Blount has been two tour with NE and fumbled more at TB an Pit. Weird huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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