How about Michael Sam?

[FireChan]

They probably both should've been mid round picks. Tebow was one of the greatest college players of all time. My point is that in 2015, it's clearly not happening for Tebow (even though he's only started 14 games), while, based on his preseason performance last year, it wouldn't be absurd to think that Sam could sneak onto a roster this year. Likely? Probably not. Does the circus factor into him probably not making a roster? Probably. Has he fanned the fire that is the circus? Yes.

And also fwiw Tebow didn't have to make a roster. No first round pick that I'm aware of hasn't been on an NFL roster his first two seasons.

Still no naming of the SECDPOY's? Is it because it's meaningless, and you've never heard of anyone winning it before Sam?

[hondo in seattle]

 

I'm sorry but this is flat out not true at all. Yes he won the defensive player of the year in the SEC, but it was really all smoke in mirrors. In his senior year he had 11.5 sacks. 9 of those (3 each) came against Arkansas St (not SEC), Vanderbilt (perennially one of the worst SEC teams) and Florida (who have had the worst Florida teams in the last 30 years the past few seasons). That leaves a whopping 2.5 sacks in the other 11 games, not very impressive at all. Not to mention his first three seasons he only had 7 combined. Finally, you have to remember that teams were also protecting more against Kony Early who is much more significant presence. Sam is knows only as a pass rusher, and he's not even that great at that when you break it down. The fact is, if he were a heterosexual man you would have never heard his name again after he won the SEC award.

 

It's a truism that DEs tend to get more sacks against weak opponents than strong ones. It's also true that DEs often get sacks in spurts.

 

Should we deduct all of Bruce Smith's multi-sack games from his totals? And all his sacks against weaker opponents?

 

I'm not convinced that Sam is an NFL talent but your argument doesn't convince me he's not.

[metzelaars_lives]

He couldn't even stay on the Cowboys practice squad. They have one of the worst D-lines in the league. So he should make the roster of the team with the best D-line in the league? Come on man!!

Jarius Wynn and Corbin Bryant were both castaways that ended up becoming very important parts of the best d line in the league.

Still no naming of the SECDPOY's? Is it because it's meaningless, and you've never heard of anyone winning it before Sam?

I'd have to look it up and don't feel compelled to. I'm sure some great players have won it though. I'm sure some players that never amounted to anything in the NFL have also won it or you wouldn't be harping on the point.

[The Real Buffalo Joe]

Still no naming of the SECDPOY's? Is it because it's meaningless, and you've never heard of anyone winning it before Sam?

Couldn't do it without googling.

• 2014 Shane Ray* Missouri
• 2013 Michael Sam* Missouri
• 2012 Jarvis Jones* Georgia
• 2011 Morris Claiborne* Louisiana State
• 2010 Patrick Peterson* Louisiana State
• 2009 Rolando McClain* Alabama
• 2008 Eric Berry Tennessee
• 2007 Glenn Dorsey* Louisiana State
• 2006 Patrick Willis Mississippi
• 2005 Demeco Ryans* Alabama
• 2004 David Pollack* Georgia
• 2003 Chad Lavalais* Louisiana State

I've heard of exactly two of these players, not including Michael Sam. To prove your point.

Edited March 27, 2015 by The Real Buffalo Joe

[FireChan]

Jarius Wynn and Corbin Bryant were both castaways that ended up becoming very important parts of the best d line in the league.

I'd have to look it up and don't feel compelled to. I'm sure some great players have won it though. I'm sure some players that never amounted to anything in the NFL have also won it or you wouldn't be harping on the point.

Great players have won it. Players who are bums have won it. My only point is that it's a meaningless buzz phrase. It has no meaning. It's not a barometer for success. "He's an SECDPOY," means nothing when you don't know a single other player who has won it. You might as well tell me he was a team captain at Vanderbilt. It's erroneous, but sounds nice.

[metzelaars_lives]

Couldn't do it without googling.

• 2014 Shane Ray* Missouri
• 2013 Michael Sam* Missouri
• 2012 Jarvis Jones* Georgia
• 2011 Morris Claiborne* Louisiana State
• 2010 Patrick Peterson* Louisiana State
• 2009 Rolando McClain* Alabama
• 2008 Eric Berry Tennessee
• 2007 Glenn Dorsey* Louisiana State
• 2006 Patrick Willis Mississippi
• 2005 Demeco Ryans* Alabama
• 2004 David Pollack* Georgia
• 2003 Chad Lavalais* Louisiana State

I've heard of exactly two of these players, not including Michael Sam. To prove your point.

Oh. My. God. You maybe shouldn't be spending your time posting on a website about FOOTBALL. Between 2006 and 2012 every one of the those players was taken in the first round. Ryans was a second rounder (I believe) and has been a great pro. What I want to know is, who out of Peterson, Willis and Berry have you never heard of!?!

Great players have won it. Players who are bums have won it. My only point is that it's a meaningless buzz phrase. It has no meaning. It's not a barometer for success. "He's an SECDPOY," means nothing when you don't know a single other player who has won it. You might as well tell me he was a team captain at Vanderbilt. It's erroneous, but sounds nice.

It's erroneous that he won SEC DPOY? There was an error made? Not sure I follow. And no I don't follow who wins the award every year. Off the top of my head before I looked it up, I guessed that Eric Berry had probably won it and he did. Not sure how this list proves any point. Between 2005 and 2012, every single of those players was a complete stud in the NFL and/or a guy who was drafted extremely high and been a decent NFL player or undetermined (Claiborne and Jones). Not that I think Michael Sam is even good! I just don't like it when people come up with dumb arguments.

Edited March 27, 2015 by metzelaars_lives

[FireChan]

Oh. My. God. You maybe shouldn't be spending your time posting on a website about FOOTBALL. Between 2006 and 2012 every one of the those players was taken in the first round. Ryans was a second rounder (I believe) and has been a great pro. What I want to know is, who out of Peterson, Willis and Berry have you never heard of!?!

 

It's erroneous that he won SEC DPOY? There was an error made? Not sure I follow.

It's incorrect. Maybe I should have said irrelevant. Either way, the point still stands. Not knowing a single other SECDPOY and yet opining that that distinction is what warrants him another look is ridiculous.

 

Like I said. I could say "X prospect was a captain at Vanderbilt," and that means nothing unless I have an idea of the previous captains or any context at all outside of "durr SEC."

Edited March 27, 2015 by FireChan

[metzelaars_lives]

It's incorrect. Maybe I should have said irrelevant. Either way, the point still stands. Not knowing a single other SECDPOY and yet opining that that distinction is what warrants him another look is ridiculous.

 

Like I said. I could say "X prospect was a captain at Vanderbilt," and that means nothing unless I have an idea of the previous captains or any context at all outside of "durr SEC."

Hey are you a hockey fan? Tell me who's scored the most goals in the league (Maurice Richard trophy) every year for the last 15 years. Ha! You couldn't! That necessarily means that scoring the most goals doesn't mean anything at all. I could apply this same thing to any sport. Who has been the 6th man of the year in the NBA the last 15 years? I guess that award means nothing. OK, who has won the last 15 NL batting titles? I guess you can toss that award out the window. I guess I just don't understand how me not knowing who won the SEC DPOY award every year undermines the importance of the award. I was certain that when you first started bringing it up that it was going to be a list of lousy players but was startled when it was filled with incredibly talented first round talent. I'm kind of at a loss as to where you're going with this one.

Edited March 27, 2015 by metzelaars_lives

[nucci]

Couldn't do it without googling.

• 2014 Shane Ray* Missouri
• 2013 Michael Sam* Missouri
• 2012 Jarvis Jones* Georgia
• 2011 Morris Claiborne* Louisiana State
• 2010 Patrick Peterson* Louisiana State
• 2009 Rolando McClain* Alabama
• 2008 Eric Berry Tennessee
• 2007 Glenn Dorsey* Louisiana State
• 2006 Patrick Willis Mississippi
• 2005 Demeco Ryans* Alabama
• 2004 David Pollack* Georgia
• 2003 Chad Lavalais* Louisiana State

I've heard of exactly two of these players, not including Michael Sam. To prove your point.

Only 2? You should know all from 2005-2011

[The Real Buffalo Joe]

Hey are you a hockey fan? Tell me who's scored the most goals in the league (Maurice Richard trophy) every year for the last 15 years. Ha! You couldn't! That necessarily means that scoring the most goals doesn't mean anything at all. I could apply this same thing to any sport. Who has been the 6th man of the year in the NBA the last 15 years? I guess that award means nothing. OK, who has won the last 15 NL batting titles? I guess you can toss that award out the window.

Yeah. But those distinctions mean that you're good in the NHL, NBA, or MLB. What does being co SECDPOY say about his ability to play that level?

[metzelaars_lives]

It's incorrect. Maybe I should have said irrelevant. Either way, the point still stands. Not knowing a single other SECDPOY and yet opining that that distinction is what warrants him another look is ridiculous.

 

Like I said. I could say "X prospect was a captain at Vanderbilt," and that means nothing unless I have an idea of the previous captains or any context at all outside of "durr SEC."

And good sir, I never once said that at all. All I said was that he had to have been decent in college to win the award because others were saying "ahh he got a few sacks against Vanderbilt, otherwise he did nothing." And having never seen him play a single snap in college, I can assure you that the voters watched many snaps and he must've been pretty good in all his games to win that award. In other words, I doubt the voters. like me, never watched a snap of Missouri football in 2013 and said, "hey this guy had 11.5 sacks? Sounds good to me. Let's vote for him."

Yeah. But those distinctions mean that you're good in the NHL, NBA, or MLB. What does being co SECDPOY say about his ability to play that level?

It means he was good in the SEC. That's all I have said in this thread. And yeah, still curious who, out of Patrick Peterson, Eric Berry and Patrick Willis, you had never heard of.

Edited March 27, 2015 by metzelaars_lives

[clearwater cadet]

Put his locker next Richie

[metzelaars_lives]

It's incorrect. Maybe I should have said irrelevant. Either way, the point still stands. Not knowing a single other SECDPOY and yet opining that that distinction is what warrants him another look is ridiculous.

 

Like I said. I could say "X prospect was a captain at Vanderbilt," and that means nothing unless I have an idea of the previous captains or any context at all outside of "durr SEC."

Yeah and in this case the previous "captains" have all been great football players so what in the world is your point? Because we had to look up who won the award, what does that have to do with anything? I'm completely lost here.

Edited March 27, 2015 by metzelaars_lives

[FireChan]

Hey are you a hockey fan? Tell me who's scored the most goals in the league (Maurice Richard trophy) every year for the last 15 years. Ha! You couldn't! That necessarily means that scoring the most goals doesn't mean anything at all. I could apply this same thing to any sport. Who has been the 6th man of the year in the NBA the last 15 years? I guess that award means nothing. OK, who has won the last 15 NL batting titles? I guess you can toss that award out the window. I guess I just don't understand how me not knowing who won the SEC DPOY award every year undermines the importance of the award. I was certain that when you first started bringing it up that it was going to be a list of lousy players but was startled when it was filled with incredibly talented first round talent. I'm kind of at a loss as to where you're going with this one.

Ovechkin has won it a bunch. Jamal Crawford, Ginobli and JR Smith have all won the Sixth Man etc etc.

 

I'm going to try again. That list of SECDPOY is the single greatest piece of evidence for Michael Sam getting another look. Agreed? And yet, not a single person brought it up in this topic in their defense of Sam. Why? I asked on three separate occasions for someone to name me one SECDPOY off the top of their head and I got crickets. That's my point. They (and now you?) were arguing for something they didn't know.

 

Now, your analogy doesn't work for about 15 different reasons. Mainly, because I didn't ask for all for them, only a couple.or one, and because those are professional sports awards, not minor or college leagues. But I'll humor you. You would never catch me making the argument that "X is great because he won the Sixth Man of the Year" without knowing anyone else who won the Sixth Man of the Year. Do you get it now?

 

It's really simple.

[metzelaars_lives]

Ovechkin has won it a bunch. Jamal Crawford, Ginobli and JR Smith have all won the Sixth Man etc etc.

 

I'm going to try again. That list of SECDPOY is the single greatest piece of evidence for Michael Sam getting another look. Agreed? And yet, not a single person brought it up in this topic in their defense of Sam. Why? I asked on three separate occasions for someone to name me one SECDPOY off the top of their head and I got crickets. That's my point. They (and now you?) were arguing for something they didn't know.

 

Now, your analogy doesn't work for about 15 different reasons. Mainly, because I didn't ask for all for them, only a couple.or one, and because those are professional sports awards, not minor or college leagues. But I'll humor you. You would never catch me making the argument that "X is great because he won the Sixth Man of the Year" without knowing anyone else who won the Sixth Man of the Year. Do you get it now?

 

It's really simple.

Yes and I told you, without giving it any thought whatsoever, that Eric Berry probably won one. And my biggest argument for Michael Sam getting another look was that, from what I saw, he had a pretty good preseason with the Rams last year. Didn't he get like 3 sacks or something? If a 7th round pick for the Bills last year got 3 sacks in the preseason and yes, was a former SEC DPOY, and they cut him and someone mentioned the Bills giving him another look this year, would everyone be saying, "No! He sucks! Get him outta here! Those plays were against 2nd and 3rd stringers! Arrrrrgggghh" That Cohen guy looked great against 2nd and 3rd stringers last preseason. Would people be pissed if we took a look at him? So is there bias against Michael Sam in this case? Of course there is. But to your point, I agree that his winning SEC DPOY in 2013 (even if I knew who won every award- which again, I have no idea where you were going with that) doesn't mean anything to me if I'm grading him out in my training camp this year.

 

And finally to your point about the SEC DPOY, just because I don't know who won the last 15 Hobey Baker awards doesn't mean I'm not allowed to say to someone, "hey Jack Eichel won the Hobey Baker. That's pretty cool." Because there are people who do know who won the Hobey Baker every year. Just like there are people who happen to know who wins the SEC DPOY award every year. So if you happened to be arguing with one of those people, your argument would be completely invalid. What if I said, "well actually, here's who won it every year..." Would you say, "Oh I was wrong and you were right. The SEC DPOY does mean something." Because there are people out there who probably could tell you who won it every year. I know Johnny Gaudreau and Brian Holzinger have won the Hobey Baker fwiw.

Edited March 27, 2015 by metzelaars_lives

[FireChan]

Yes and I told you, without giving it any thought whatsoever, that Eric Berry probably won one. And my biggest argument for Michael Sam getting another look was that, from what I saw, he had a pretty good preseason with the Rams last year. Didn't het like 3 sacks or something? If a 7th round pick for the Bills last year got 3 sacks in the preseason and yes, was a former SEC DPOY, and they cut him and someone mentioned the Bills giving him another look this year, would everyone be saying, "No! He sucks! Get him outta here! Those plays were against 2nd and 3rd stringers! Arrrrrgggghh" That Cohen guy looked great against 2nd and 3rd stringers last preseason. Would people be pissed if we took a look at him? So is there bias against Michael Sam in this case? Of course there is. But to your point, I agree that his winning SEC DPOY in 2013 (even if I knew who won every award- which again, I have no idea where you were going with that) doesn't mean anything to me if I'm grading him out in my training camp this year.

No you didn't.

 

"I'd have to look it up and don't feel compelled to. I'm sure some great players have won it though. I'm sure some players that never amounted to anything in the NFL have also won it or you wouldn't be harping on the point."

 

You were actually arguing the merits of SECDPOY without knowing who was on it. That's why I posted what I did. That's horrible.

 

The rest of your post is irrelevant.

[SF Bills Fan]

I'd rather focus on getting players for the O-line. This is my biggest concern outside of QB, however, we can address this piece more easily than QB.

[Jauronimo]

I'd rather focus on getting players for the O-line. This is my biggest concern outside of QB, however, we can address this piece more easily than QB.

Where are we going to find an openly gay lineman with marginal NFL talent?

[metzelaars_lives]

No you didn't.

 

"I'd have to look it up and don't feel compelled to. I'm sure some great players have won it though. I'm sure some players that never amounted to anything in the NFL have also won it or you wouldn't be harping on the point."

 

You were actually arguing the merits of SECDPOY without knowing who was on it. That's why I posted what I did. That's horrible.

 

The rest of your post is irrelevant.

Look if I was at a bar playing sports trivia and you asked me to name SEC DPOY's over the last decade, of course I would've guessed some of those names- Peterson, Berry, McClain, Willis, probably Dorsey. Certainly you have been able to deduce from my posting history that I am a knowledgeable football fan. Do I watch the SEC DPOY award ceremony every year or pay any attention to who wins the award? Of course not. So if that is your point, you win.

 

EDIT: But I just don't understand your point! If the Bills were scouting out a QB from, I don't know, Central Michigan and you happened to hear that he was the MAAC offensive player of the year, would you say "oh that's a nice award, I'm a little more interested now" or would you say, "nope, don't know who has won past awards so I cannot like that he won that award, sorry."

Edited March 27, 2015 by metzelaars_lives

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

Sorry to change the subject but is this what you expect from Hughes? I respectfully disagree

Yes actually. That's how Pettine used him, and Rex tends to prefer using heavier guys (like Alan Branch) as a "heavy 5 technique" player in his base.

 

That said, Rex tends to be pretty aggressive about using the nickel and dime subpackages. There's a reason Hughes was on the field as much as he did with Pettine. But do I think Hughes is going to rotate in? Absolutely.