Pine Barrens Mafia Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 yep. It's as if people don't watch other teams not named Denver, Green Bay, Dallas, New England, Pittsburgh, Seattle, and Indy (and to a lesser extent the Giants and Baltimore). There aren't very many good QBs in the league. I believe that if we'd started with Orton week 1, we'd have 10-11 wins, easily. EJ in weeks 3/4 was SO dreadful, there's just no getting around it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8-8 Forever? Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 (edited) +1 Indictment of EJ and where this coaching staff thought he was in his development. no. I just think Marrone simply wanted to win a game. that is his mindset. period. Orton was the better guy to go with rather than EJ yesterday and that is correct. These guys are in the "win" business. This isn't AAA baseball. Its the NFL. Edited December 29, 2014 by 8and8Forever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 So you're saying that a) the Bills won games because of Orton (and not because of defense/special teams) and that b) Orton wasn't horrible? No, not at all. See my post above. I don't think he was horrible, by the way. I think he was league average - a flawed player who could do certain things well. He throws a nice ball and can orchestrate a complex offense. He does other things poorly. Why does everything have to be either death or glory (i.e., he sucks or he's great, with no in between)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 So you're saying that a) the Bills won games because of Orton (and not because of defense/special teams) and that b) Orton wasn't horrible? See my response to McBride. I believe if Orton had started week 1 instead of 5, we'd be at 10-11 wins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fridge Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 I believe that if we'd started with Orton week 1, we'd have 10-11 wins, easily. EJ in weeks 3/4 was SO dreadful, there's just no getting around it. EJ only lost two games. The highest we could have won would have been 11. You think Orton is going to sweep the Chargers, texans games? Fine. Orton lost to Oakland, you know that right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 Unfortunately Orton DID. He made up his mind about this previously. I feel he should have told Marrone his intentions after the Bills were eliminated last week. He should have told him to start EJ as there was nothing more on the line and he was gone after the season no matter what. I don't get it.... He may well have told Marrone. Marrone figured he'd play well in his final game, and he actually did play competently. There was only one negative play (due to an egregious double whiff by Spiller). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 EJ only lost two games. The highest we could have won would have been 11. You think Orton is going to sweep the Chargers, texans games? Fine. Orton lost to Oakland, you know that right? We certainly would have at least won the Texans game. that puts us at 10 and possibly in the playoffs. But by all means, let the caterwauling continue unabated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 Well, we didn't do too bad against Minnesota and Detroit with him. He really did help us there. Chicago was good for Manuel. The KC and San Diego games were a fault of the D. The Houston game, Manuel didn't help but the D sure didn't help, either. Blown assignments and overages all day. The Patriots game was a surprise in that we just stunk up the field. Orton is worth having on our roster in 2015. Lets assume we draft a 2nd or 3rd round QB. Lets assume this QB won't be ready to start immediately. Lets assume that Orton remained on his 2015 player options and Manuel continued to develop. We enter training camp with Manuel and Orton battling it out and a 3rd QB grooming for down the line. Orton plays solid and Manuel gets some playing time, continues to develop hopefully surpassing Orton by seasons end. By 2016 we know what we have in Orton, we have a young QB who had a year to learn the offense and a 1st round pick we can spend on a QB. 2016 will be EJ's last year on his current contract and if he hasn't stepped up at that point spending a 2016 pick on a QB falls in line. In the meantime, there are no worthwhile free agents out there that you can be assured are better then Orton. Matt Moore and Mark Sanchez are likely on the same level and both could probably beat out EJ Manuel for the job. Behind this line Sanchez and Manuel would get killed. Moore is mobile and quick on his feet, a lot like Fitzpatrick. Of course, there we go again. I wish we'd have just kept Fitzpatrick, contract and all. I warned everyone it'd be the better option just like I am warning everyone now that we should have courted Orton better but started EJ week 17. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section122 Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 You bring your hand back when you throw. He looked back because he didn't know if he could bring his hand back. He should have just started running at that point. Even IF I gave you that.... Then there would be absolutely no excuse for him fumbling there. If he is looking to see if he could pass then he needed to get rid of it quickly or put 2 hands on the ball to secure against the sack. It isn't the first time I've seen him prepare for a sack that didn't happen. It looked a lot more like he expected to get hit and turned around to brace for it. I believe that if we'd started with Orton week 1, we'd have 10-11 wins, easily. EJ in weeks 3/4 was SO dreadful, there's just no getting around it. There is absolutely no way you predicted the Bills to win 10 or 11 games at the beginning of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heels20X6 Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 We certainly would have at least won the Texans game. that puts us at 10 and possibly in the playoffs. But by all means, let the caterwauling continue unabated. And EJ, had he played like he did the first two weeks, may have actually been able to beat KC, Denver and Oakland. Games were Orton was absolutely dreadful. We could do these ridiculous hypotheticals all day. Won't change the fact that Orton was a lousy QB more interested in self-preservation than winning. Again, good riddance to a mediocre QB and Marrone's security blanket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1B4IDie Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 Free Agent QB check list 1.) NFL quality OC - nope 2.) NFL quality O-line - nope 3.) No incumbent at QB - nope (lingering former 1st rounder) 4.) Playmakers on offense - yup. Not looking good to lure a quality Free Agent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 You bring your hand back when you throw. He looked back because he didn't know if he could bring his hand back. He should have just started running at that point. I gave up correcting this as soon as I saw it posted the first time. Everyone acting like they were saying he was scared. No, he was just seeing if he had room to pass. Sure, he didn't play the play well but he wasn't left with many options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fridge Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 We certainly would have at least won the Texans game. that puts us at 10 and possibly in the playoffs. But by all means, let the caterwauling continue unabated. What about the Oakland game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 For all of the fine people calling other people idiots: Orton did not have a winning record. The Bills had a winning record. The Bills won exactly ZERO games because of Kyle Orton's mastery of the QB position. Orton CLEARLY had no interest in playing for the Bills after his first or second start; it was painfully clear on the field. Only an idiot would think Orton made the Bills a better team. He was horrible. Gug, that last one is a bit too incendiary for me. He did get things back into a steady place and it was well-reported how good he was in working with his receivers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 (edited) Orton playing behind one of the very worst O lines in the NFL this season With an offensive coordinator who called for 579 passes vs 402 rushes, and against some of the best defenses in the NFL *The most experienced starting WR on the team was 2nd year player Robert Woods Kyle Orton 3,018 yards, 18 TD's, 10 INT's QBR 7-5 To the fans thinking the team is better off without him Edited December 29, 2014 by FeartheLosing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 (edited) There is absolutely no way you predicted the Bills to win 10 or 11 games at the beginning of the season. You're right, I didn't. I picked 8. They exceeded my expectations, which is why I'm not being a whiner like so many around here. Edited December 29, 2014 by joesixpack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
develop818 Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 Judging by the way he played in the second half it sounds like he retired at half time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 Good luck, Kyle. Thanks for most things. I don't think it says a thing about what they think of EJ. I think Marrone did what he said he did, which is try to win the game. He was doing it because that is his job and is job coud have depended on it. Beating the Pats almost assured he would stay. 8-8 after two losses in a row including a huge upset, there is a question mark. One game before, we had beaten the Packers. He thought he knows what he has in Oton and doesnt know what he has in EJ off for ten weeks. It was a no brainer to start Orton if you wanted to win, or save your job. I doubt Orton told the coaches or management anything. It could be they told him he would have to come to camp and beat out EJ or another guy for the job, and then he retired. It could be that he checked out a month ago but I doubt it with the playoffs a possibility. He probably just didnt like the position he was put in, didnt like getting hit anymore, and realize that he couldn't move fast enough to avoid it anymore. He hadn't played in two years. He probably didnt know he was that immobile. Maybe he just realized he couldnt truly succeed here without getting killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 We certainly would have at least won the Texans game. You think Orton, at his speed, would have fared BETTER against Watt? That's insanity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowery4 Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 Yeah, I'm still pissed off about winning that game and ending the season on a high note. End Thread/ Oh wait, anybody else feel like their GF just told you she was a lesbian? And last thought, can we get Fitz back next year? We need a back up at least and maybe a starter. I like Fitz for the back up role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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