timtebow15 Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 I hate starting over as much as anyone but here are the facts (as I see them of course): Russ has to go for several reasons...he is a marketer than talked himself into a football role and needs to be responsible to a)selecting the coaching staff that has not delivered on their "promise" (as evidenced by their mortgaging the near-future to make the playoffs) and allowing a rift to exist between Whaley and Marrone, in part bc he clearly is a Whaley guy. This rift creates a dysfunctional atmosphere that is not going away. Whaley has to go because, while he has hit on a few, he has whiffed on the most important decisions. Went all in on EJ, brought in Williams to be the answer at guard when even casual fans knew he was awful, brought in the other Williams at WR who brought about some incredibly weird handling this year, selected Kujo who most GMs did not think could play and were proven correct while wetried to outsmart everyone and gave up too much (whether he turns out to be a good player or not) to draft a position of incredible strength in this year's draft (think of what we would have if he traded down to take one of many of the other fine receivers that went later because there were so many great prospects - you have consider opportunities lost as well). Marrone has to go - think about it...he has been amazingly blessed by the DC he's had but the side of football he was most responsible for is a train wreck. We need a coach inventing the next brand of football played but Marrone's strategy is already behind the times - an offense that relies to heavily on defense when the rules are set up to score points, punts when behind in the 4th quarter, mismanages the offensive line, confuses players regarding their roles, expects the D to play the same on the road as at home which just does not happen (must be more aggressive on the road to score), has a poor relationship with the GM - he's a dysfunctional head coach who might make the playoffs someday on the strength of our D but will never advance far. Hackett has to go because of his poor system. He is essentially trying to move the ball downfield with a 4 yard passing attack where you have to go 3-3 to move the chains far too often. Last time I checked if you are throwing the ball 10-20 yards downfield you only have to complete 1 of 3 passes. Additionally, then your screens and draws might work. When you have no running game and run play-action you give away the fact that you are never going to outplay a capable defense. The problem is we need extraordinary individuals running the show. Each of these guys can run the show, however, mediocrity will always be the result and it starts at the top. Quite awhile ago they said they had a plan, talked about metrics and such. It is clear after two years they have no plan. It is haphazard and dysfunctional and, I am sorry to say, the results will never be any different with these people running the organization. There will always be an excuse. No QB, no OL, too few draft picks bc they were wasted or traded away, misses on free agents, infighting, not enough depth, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justafan9 Posted December 28, 2014 Author Share Posted December 28, 2014 I will do just that. I will do so knowing that Russ isn't an OC, an offensive guard, an offensive line coach or a QB. I think Whaley and Marrone will address all of those needs shortly as it is Whaley and Marrone's job to do that. They're doing a magnificent job. As their predecessors did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justafan9 Posted December 28, 2014 Author Share Posted December 28, 2014 I hate starting over as much as anyone but here are the facts (as I see them of course): Russ has to go for several reasons...he is a marketer than talked himself into a football role and needs to be responsible to a)selecting the coaching staff that has not delivered on their "promise" (as evidenced by their mortgaging the near-future to make the playoffs) and allowing a rift to exist between Whaley and Marrone, in part bc he clearly is a Whaley guy. This rift creates a dysfunctional atmosphere that is not going away. Whaley has to go because, while he has hit on a few, he has whiffed on the most important decisions. Went all in on EJ, brought in Williams to be the answer at guard when even casual fans knew he was awful, brought in the other Williams at WR who brought about some incredibly weird handling this year, selected Kujo who most GMs did not think could play and were proven correct while wetried to outsmart everyone and gave up too much (whether he turns out to be a good player or not) to draft a position of incredible strength in this year's draft (think of what we would have if he traded down to take one of many of the other fine receivers that went later because there were so many great prospects - you have consider opportunities lost as well). Marrone has to go - think about it...he has been amazingly blessed by the DC he's had but the side of football he was most responsible for is a train wreck. We need a coach inventing the next brand of football played but Marrone's strategy is already behind the times - an offense that relies to heavily on defense when the rules are set up to score points, punts when behind in the 4th quarter, mismanages the offensive line, confuses players regarding their roles, expects the D to play the same on the road as at home which just does not happen (must be more aggressive on the road to score), has a poor relationship with the GM - he's a dysfunctional head coach who might make the playoffs someday on the strength of our D but will never advance far. Hackett has to go because of his poor system. He is essentially trying to move the ball downfield with a 4 yard passing attack where you have to go 3-3 to move the chains far too often. Last time I checked if you are throwing the ball 10-20 yards downfield you only have to complete 1 of 3 passes. Additionally, then your screens and draws might work. When you have no running game and run play-action you give away the fact that you are never going to outplay a capable defense. The problem is we need extraordinary individuals running the show. Each of these guys can run the show, however, mediocrity will always be the result and it starts at the top. Quite awhile ago they said they had a plan, talked about metrics and such. It is clear after two years they have no plan. It is haphazard and dysfunctional and, I am sorry to say, the results will never be any different with these people running the organization. There will always be an excuse. No QB, no OL, too few draft picks bc they were wasted or traded away, misses on free agents, infighting, not enough depth, etc. Extraordinary would be nice, but I would settle for ordinary individuals at the top, particularly at the CEO/President level. That was the point of my op. I'd just like to start with what most other NFL teams already have. There are competent HCs about to hit the market, but they are not coming to Buffalo, due at least in part to an incredibly under qualified Russ Brandon. Cancer. Cancer. Cancer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timtebow15 Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 Extraordinary would be nice, but I would settle for ordinary individuals at the top, particularly at the CEO/President level. That was the point of my op. I'd just like to start with what most other NFL teams already have. There are competent HCs about to hit the market, but they are not coming to Buffalo, due at least in part to an incredibly under qualified Russ Brandon. Cancer. Cancer. Cancer. I agree 100%! Like Whaley he brings checkers to a chess match. They are clearly not going to outsmart anyone but themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8-8 Forever? Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 The Bills are a home boy franchise. No one without some kind of tie to the area is coming there. With rare exceptions, unless you are from there or have some kind of tie to the general area, no one makes a free will choice in the face of equivalent opportunities elsewhere to actually move their families to WNY. Not happening any more than any other rust belt 3rd tier US city. Jim Kelly actually physically cried when the Bills drafted him. Remember that?? The area has a big time image problem. that is why home boys like Russ Brandon get those jobs. No one else wants them if comparable opportunities exist elsewhere . Just the way it was when the death watch with RWS was on. Maybe new Pegula $$$ can open the place up to guys not born in WNY, we shall see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tintonfallsbillsfan Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 Russ should not be part of the Football Operations. The president is the guy who sits down with Whaley and Marrone and say play E.j. I would like to take a look. Or Doug it's your call if you want to give up next years one but here is why I think it's a bad idea. There is a void that needs to be filled Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 I will do just that. I will do so knowing that Russ isn't an OC, an offensive guard, an offensive line coach or a QB. I think Whaley and Marrone will address all of those needs shortly as it is Whaley and Marrone's job to do that. Indeed. Russ' biggest flaw was who he chose/allowed to run the football side of things (Modrak, Guy, Nix)--although I think Whaley will be a good GM. I'd hate to lose Whaley, but there are a lot of good football minds out there. I still think somehow Marc Ross will end up a GM in this league, and it would only make sense for it to be here, especially if Polian is the one making that call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vorpma Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 I hate starting over as much as anyone but here are the facts (as I see them of course): Russ has to go for several reasons...he is a marketer than talked himself into a football role and needs to be responsible to a)selecting the coaching staff that has not delivered on their "promise" (as evidenced by their mortgaging the near-future to make the playoffs) and allowing a rift to exist between Whaley and Marrone, in part bc he clearly is a Whaley guy. This rift creates a dysfunctional atmosphere that is not going away. Whaley has to go because, while he has hit on a few, he has whiffed on the most important decisions. Went all in on EJ, brought in Williams to be the answer at guard when even casual fans knew he was awful, brought in the other Williams at WR who brought about some incredibly weird handling this year, selected Kujo who most GMs did not think could play and were proven correct while wetried to outsmart everyone and gave up too much (whether he turns out to be a good player or not) to draft a position of incredible strength in this year's draft (think of what we would have if he traded down to take one of many of the other fine receivers that went later because there were so many great prospects - you have consider opportunities lost as well). Marrone has to go - think about it...he has been amazingly blessed by the DC he's had but the side of football he was most responsible for is a train wreck. We need a coach inventing the next brand of football played but Marrone's strategy is already behind the times - an offense that relies to heavily on defense when the rules are set up to score points, punts when behind in the 4th quarter, mismanages the offensive line, confuses players regarding their roles, expects the D to play the same on the road as at home which just does not happen (must be more aggressive on the road to score), has a poor relationship with the GM - he's a dysfunctional head coach who might make the playoffs someday on the strength of our D but will never advance far. Hackett has to go because of his poor system. He is essentially trying to move the ball downfield with a 4 yard passing attack where you have to go 3-3 to move the chains far too often. Last time I checked if you are throwing the ball 10-20 yards downfield you only have to complete 1 of 3 passes. Additionally, then your screens and draws might work. When you have no running game and run play-action you give away the fact that you are never going to outplay a capable defense. The problem is we need extraordinary individuals running the show. Each of these guys can run the show, however, mediocrity will always be the result and it starts at the top. Quite awhile ago they said they had a plan, talked about metrics and such. It is clear after two years they have no plan. It is haphazard and dysfunctional and, I am sorry to say, the results will never be any different with these people running the organization. There will always be an excuse. No QB, no OL, too few draft picks bc they were wasted or traded away, misses on free agents, infighting, not enough depth, etc. :thumbsup: Great post!! The Bills are a home boy franchise. No one without some kind of tie to the area is coming there. With rare exceptions, unless you are from there or have some kind of tie to the general area, no one makes a free will choice in the face of equivalent opportunities elsewhere to actually move their families to WNY. Not happening any more than any other rust belt 3rd tier US city. Jim Kelly actually physically cried when the Bills drafted him. Remember that?? The area has a big time image problem. that is why home boys like Russ Brandon get those jobs. No one else wants them if comparable opportunities exist elsewhere . Just the way it was when the death watch with RWS was on. Maybe new Pegula $$$ can open the place up to guys not born in WNY, we shall see. Lots of truth here, however, during the Levy era many FA's wanted Buffalo, winning franchise that paid its players and wanted Camp Marv in August. Money is what will get a quality GM here, then build a franchise known as a winner and first rate. Green Bay! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pass the Pipe Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 As I have emphatically stated before, this moron, tumor, jack*ss, *ss kisser, yes man etc, has to go. What business person would negotiate a contract where the contractee, Marrone in this case, is compensated to break a contract? In any basic contract negotiation providing somebody with options or flexibility typically costs something to the contractee, see stock options, call features on bonds, real estate transactions, obviously a concept not understand by our "business man." Marrone exercises an option to terminate his employment with the Bills and still gets compensated, unheard of; completely played by the agent! The Bills will continue to be laughingstock as long as people like Brandon are still around! By the way, buyer beware on Mariota, he is not NFL ready; runs too much and his coach makes all the calls and the guy hasn't fit any throws into tight spaces and has missed many wide open targets! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Best Player Available Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 Gulf Oysters barbecued are great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prissythecat Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 As I have emphatically stated before, this moron, tumor, jack*ss, *ss kisser, yes man etc, has to go. What business person would negotiate a contract where the contractee, Marrone in this case, is compensated to break a contract? In any basic contract negotiation providing somebody with options or flexibility typically costs something to the contractee, see stock options, call features on bonds, real estate transactions, obviously a concept not understand by our "business man." Marrone exercises an option to terminate his employment with the Bills and still gets compensated, unheard of; completely played by the agent! The Bills will continue to be laughingstock as long as people like Brandon are still around! By the way, buyer beware on Mariota, he is not NFL ready; runs too much and his coach makes all the calls and the guy hasn't fit any throws into tight spaces and has missed many wide open targets! Have you been smoking too much from the pipe? Since you claim to know so much about contract negotiations , what special clauses typically go in when there is possibility of an ownership change ? Golden parachutes come to mind? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 (edited) I was wondering how long it would take someone to start a thread on this, you are the winner!! Russ B was representing Ralph Wilson at the time the contract was signed. What possible downside to RW would there be to put this clause into the contract as it wasn't going to be his money paying for it? If it helped the Bills close the deal why not? Are you going to claim the team would have sold for a higher price without this clause?? I don't know about you, but $4 mil doesn't sound like much of a big deal when spending $1.4 bil If anything having a coach on board who you assumed was going to be an improvement over prior choices would help drive the selling price up. Maybe at the time Russ B did have some concerns that this could come back to bite him, but likely in 2012 when this contract was signed if you asked RB if he thought he'd still be with the Bills after the team was sold, he likely would have said no. He also was representing RW's interests first and foremost. He may have asked RW about this at the time would RW agree to it, or maybe RW by that point wasn't getting into any details anymore and was left completely up to Russ to work out. Either way this clause wouldn't hurt RW since he wouldn't be paying for it and if it would help close the deal, and potentially m=inccreasing the value of the team, why not Without knowing the specific details of Russ's leadership agreement, but effectively he had POA responsibility for RW for the Bill's, typically as such he had a legal responsibility to represent the best interests of RW and if agreeing to this clause increased the sale rice, then he did the right thing. In simple terms in 2012 if RW was still running things and had agreed to this would you be OK with it? If so, then you need to still be OK with it as Russ B was representing RW's interests, and definitely not the fans of the team. As was stated they are called golden parachutes and are completely common at this level. In fact wouldn't surprise me if both Russ B and Doug W don't also have some type of clause in their contracts too. Edited January 2, 2015 by Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pass the Pipe Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 I disagree with the parachute reference as they are for job displacement resulting from a new management team or compensation for the owners of the business being sold. What I don't like is Marrone's ability to double dip, a new salary from his new team and the Bills paying for absolutely nothing, actually causing disruption to the organization, which leads me to my bad job by Brandon claim. I could see some pro-rated number or a payout if he is fired by the new owner or doesn't land a new job post exercising the option. Marrone is being compensated for leaving a $4 mil. job based on his own decision, which is poor business to me. How do the Bills benefit from this, where is the value of this option to the Bills organization? I can see a proven commodity ask for this clause, but not a guy like Marrone doing marginal work at Syracuse, not exactly a household name in college football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jr1 Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 Russ got rolled by Maybin and Doug. He's a mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 He agreed to sign the contract at the time, so that's how it helped the Bills So you don't consider a new owner taking over new management?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 He agreed to sign the contract at the time, so that's how it helped the Bills So you don't consider a new owner taking over new management?? It did strike me as a weird clause. I don't pretend to know NFL contracts, but I do know contracts in general, and it was weird because there doesn't seem to be any real impact on the coaching staff of a change of ownership. It's not like Ralph Wilson and Marrone had some long history such that Marrone only agreed to coach the Bills based on that personal connection. This would be the kind of thing you'd expect with, say, John Elway and Pat Bowlen (president of football operations and owner, where there was a long personal relationship between the two men), or even John Elway and John Fox, but not between owner and coach. Was it put in there with the expectation that a change of ownership would mean a relocation of the franchise, and Marrone wasn't ready to move to Toronto or LA? I'd have to say that's the only explanation I can think of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 at the time no one even knew where the team would be located. Or maybe the owner was Donald Trump and you don't want to work for him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noodlearm Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 Having to pay him a full years salary if he executed the opt out almost made him have to leave. He will be getting at least double time for next year! Way to go Brandon. These contracts should make it harder to leave, not impossible to stay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pass the Pipe Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 Having to pay him a full years salary if he executed the opt out almost made him have to leave. He will be getting at least double time for next year! Way to go Brandon. These contracts should make it harder to leave, not impossible to stay. Exactly my point! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteski Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 I read somewhere (no link sorry) that he would not of signed the contract unless he had the opt out clause due to new ownership. It was the only way the deal was going to be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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