Astrobot Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 First thing the Pegula's should do is fire the offensive part of the scouting staff, or whomever oversees that part of the scouting dept. If the Bills hadn't been able to trade up for Sammy the first two picks would have been Eric Ebron, Cyrus Kouandjio Some people, somewhere are giving Whaley some really bad advice. http://bit.ly/1A8AFEy OL problem is OL scouting. To get one RT, sign bad pro OG, draft 2 RTs/OG in '13, 2 OGs in '12, OT/OG in '11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince88 Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 Best case scenario, EJ turns the Drew Breese corner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 OK, so let me get this right.... 1) Great play by the D is not because of the great players on D Because it is all Swartz? That is the argument of poor play by the Offence. 2) Offence is playing bad so that is all on Hackett and Marrone and not the players because they are only bad because of the coaches? Sum it all up like this: Good D is on Swartz not the players but Marrone cant be credited at all for that. Bad O is on Hackett and Marrone because he is head coach and that is on him too but not the good D play. Is that right? All that said I never once said they should not can Hackett. Just said I would be surprised Just look back to what George Edwards did with all the talent on defense 9 of 11 starting players were either 1st or 2nd round draft picks. Then Dave Wannstedt took over, and was actually worse. The Bills hired Mike Petting, and the change was startling with blitzes all over the place. Now this season with just rushing the same from four that Pettine had, and even minus stud LBer Kikio. Schwartz to his credit is fielding a top 5 defense, and looks to be easily good enough to help a team with a decent offense to a playoff berth. On offense last year the new HC didn't hire a QB coach, and didn't have a veteran QB on the roster to help guide the three rookie QB's on the roster. Now this year all three of those QB regressed badly, Tuel on the practice squad, Thad Lewis is gone, and I'm thinking if EJ wasn't a #1 pick he also might join Tuel on the PS. Anyway, EJ regressed and was benched. Kyle Orton is just an average Joe at QB, and yet the morons running the offense this season continuously call for 40+ passes a game while rushing it only 20. This last game against Denver it was 57 passes, 16 rushes. All this passing with not much rushing has always been a formula for losing, and its usually what you see from the losing QB on a losing team. This offense is ranked 24th to 28th, and is a bad team with some great to superstar players. You don't see other teams using their star rookie WR's as decoys! The current coaches couldn't figure out how to get Spiller in space like Gailey used to do. The run game is predictable, and simplistic with 70% of the runs right up the middle. The offensive passing game is simplistic, and limited to the limitations of the play caller. Bills fans KNOW that a change in coaches on the offensive side will be similar to changing from the bad DC's (Edwards & Wannstedt) to Pettine, Schwartz. Plus, if the Bills make the right choice the first time in an OC next year the offense could get so much better right away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klos63 Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 Well, if I were in charge Joe Philbin would be my OC once Miami fires him, keep Marone and Schwartz, wait till the Rams release or look to move Sam Bradford, I think he would do very well in a Green Bay style offense. Sign the top guard and draft the best center in the draft, moved wood to RG. Did you watch the Rams the other night ? Can't see why they would get rid of Bradford, they need a QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 Did you watch the Rams the other night ? Can't see why they would get rid of Bradford, they need a QB. Money reasons. He is the last of the big paychecks to the drafted #1 QB's. Unless he renegotiates. we would have fired Payton after he went 7-9 followed by 8-8 before the 13-11-13 and 11 win seasons.....we never let anyone build anything......it's what bad teams do No, bad teams retain the same FO staff of losers like Detroit did with Matt Millen as team president for 7 years. In Buffalo's case they were held back by a micromanaging owner the last 15 years. A man who notoriously was always interfering where he had no business being involved in, as he was the team president. When he was no longer able to be in complete charge of the team he made the marketing / money man in Russ Brandon the CEO. The top of the food chain in the buffalo Bills Org. You know, the marketing guy that is supposedly not involved in the football side of things that has a radio show on a sports talk show. The Bills have new owners who have already shown that they are apprehensive in making changes unless they are warranted. I would say the way this offense has been run this year that changes are warranted. The QB's all regressed, the O line regressed to one of the worst in the NFL. The run game regressed. 24th to 28th most of the season is bad in my view. Why on gods green earth would anyone in their right mind want to keep the current offensive coaching staff? I suppose there were fans who wanted to keep George Edwards, Dave Wannstedt too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrobot Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 Best case scenario, EJ turns the Drew Breese corner Orton has been coached to dump off, and is now worse in yards per attempt in his last 4 games (6.09) than EJ was in his first 4 NFL games (6.44). Contrast this with Rodgers (9.11) and you'll see that it's not an either-or between QB and OC. Both reek of Loss, Man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San-O Posted December 14, 2014 Author Share Posted December 14, 2014 Hackett is lying. The only reason he's saying that NOW is because his "play it safe/check down at all costs/take what the defense gives you" offense was a total failure. If you want Hackett's true and wimpy offensive philosophy then just watch this august interview at (2:26)... http://www.buffalobi...f2-924b9fd287ce “we never want to force anything, cause all of a sudden we’re forcing the ball downfield and were forcing, forcing, forcing and causing turnovers…we just want to be able to take what the defense gives us” I would be ashamed to be an NFL offensive coordinator and have this as my philosophy. I know that you'll point out that they only have Manuel and Orton to work with, but I would protest that Hackett never even gave his QBs the opportunity to succeed or fail given that they were told to never force anything. This is the NFL, if you never force the issue you will never know if your QB can actually do it. How stupid was it of the Bills to take EJ Manuel and never let him force the issue down the field? This is the biggest job of a franchise QB and they NEVER let him try. Hackett's now telling you to believe him and not your lying eyes. I ask all Bills fans backing Marrone, why you would want him back as your head coach when his offensive coordinator has that as his pathetic offensive philosophy? This is 2014, the pass play has been made as easy as possible with rules changes, they used 2 first rd picks on a WR, and the Bills are acting like the 1950's era is the way to go offensively. Marrone and Hackett do not have the stomach for turnovers to a loser's fault and are basically cowards on offense. There is no way a smart man who paid over a billion dollars for the Bills will continue to employ Marrone or Hackett in 2015. The Bills have the worst head coach and offensive coordinator in the NFL. I'd like to see the list of who's worse. 1BILLSFAN - Really bringing it. Made lot's of interesting points also, IMO. I think the offense is also being held back by Hackett, and should be an average O at least. Again, the Front Office did invest quite heavily on that side of the ball, with some good things, but the O may have even regressed since last year. This is actually hard to believe with the much improved QB play. EJ/Tuel/Lewis? How much worse was last year at QB and how much better did the O perform this year? Not much for the latter... Let's see what happens today on O. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealityCheck Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 Yes I did. I gave you the numbers and you chose to ignore them. The reason the Bills are only 17th in points scored given all the advantages of NFL rules changes favoring scoring, drive starts, numbers of drives, 28 takeaways, is because of bad coaching not bad players. High school offenses are more unpredictable than the Buffalo Bills offense. Interesting. If those numbers are your evidence that the players share 0% culpability with the coaches then I say go with it. I think the entire unit leaves a lot to be desired and the salary cap reflects a significant under investment on the offensive side of the ball. I say it is both the coaches and players that are the problem, with QB being the weakest link. You think it's all on Hacket. I just can't follow the logic after actually watching this team play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 we would have fired Payton after he went 7-9 followed by 8-8 before the 13-11-13 and 11 win seasons.....we never let anyone build anything......it's what bad teams do Which ex-Bills coaches do you believe were fired prematurely, before they could "build anything"? I assume the ones you name will have gone on to great success with other, more patient organizations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris heff Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 Hackett is lying. The only reason he's saying that NOW is because his "play it safe/check down at all costs/take what the defense gives you" offense was a total failure. If you want Hackett's true and wimpy offensive philosophy then just watch this august interview at (2:26)... http://www.buffalobills.com/video/videos/Nathaniel-Hackett-on-OLine-and-the-Red-Zone/32e57e61-a6bd-442d-b9f2-924b9fd287ce “we never want to force anything, cause all of a sudden we’re forcing the ball downfield and were forcing, forcing, forcing and causing turnovers…we just want to be able to take what the defense gives us” I would be ashamed to be an NFL offensive coordinator and have this as my philosophy. I know that you'll point out that they only have Manuel and Orton to work with, but I would protest that Hackett never even gave his QBs the opportunity to succeed or fail given that they were told to never force anything. This is the NFL, if you never force the issue you will never know if your QB can actually do it. How stupid was it of the Bills to take EJ Manuel and never let him force the issue down the field? This is the biggest job of a franchise QB and they NEVER let him try. Hackett's now telling you to believe him and not your lying eyes. I ask all Bills fans backing Marrone, why you would want him back as your head coach when his offensive coordinator has that as his pathetic offensive philosophy? This is 2014, the pass play has been made as easy as possible with rules changes, they used 2 first rd picks on a WR, and the Bills are acting like the 1950's era is the way to go offensively. Marrone and Hackett do not have the stomach for turnovers to a loser's fault and are basically cowards on offense. There is no way a smart man who paid over a billion dollars for the Bills will continue to employ Marrone or Hackett in 2015. The Bills have the worst head coach and offensive coordinator in the NFL. I'd like to see the list of who's worse. You are absolutly correct. I sick of saying this, how is it possible that Orton and Manuel have exactly the same issues? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 You make a good point. Here's to a new starting QB come week 1. I have a feeling our new owner will have something to say about that situation. It is easy to name another starter. Finding one who can actually play is not so easy. Nothing an owner has to say is going to change that. What wonderful QB is out there that we can get if only Pegula says he wants him? Jay Cutler? Andy Dalton? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 Hackett is lying. The only reason he's saying that NOW is because his "play it safe/check down at all costs/take what the defense gives you" offense was a total failure. If you want Hackett's true and wimpy offensive philosophy then just watch this august interview at (2:26)... http://www.buffalobi...f2-924b9fd287ce “we never want to force anything, cause all of a sudden we’re forcing the ball downfield and were forcing, forcing, forcing and causing turnovers…we just want to be able to take what the defense gives us” I would be ashamed to be an NFL offensive coordinator and have this as my philosophy. I know that you'll point out that they only have Manuel and Orton to work with, but I would protest that Hackett never even gave his QBs the opportunity to succeed or fail given that they were told to never force anything. This is the NFL, if you never force the issue you will never know if your QB can actually do it. How stupid was it of the Bills to take EJ Manuel and never let him force the issue down the field? This is the biggest job of a franchise QB and they NEVER let him try. Hackett's now telling you to believe him and not your lying eyes. I ask all Bills fans backing Marrone, why you would want him back as your head coach when his offensive coordinator has that as his pathetic offensive philosophy? This is 2014, the pass play has been made as easy as possible with rules changes, they used 2 first rd picks on a WR, and the Bills are acting like the 1950's era is the way to go offensively. Marrone and Hackett do not have the stomach for turnovers to a loser's fault and are basically cowards on offense. There is no way a smart man who paid over a billion dollars for the Bills will continue to employ Marrone or Hackett in 2015. The Bills have the worst head coach and offensive coordinator in the NFL. I'd like to see the list of who's worse. Earlier this week, offensive coordinator Kyle Shanahan talked about striking the balance between a fiercely regimented offense and a player with a reputation for freelancing. Shanahan seems to be giving Manziel a license to drive . . . all over the road. “[W]hen that ball snaps, I don’t want him thinking about coaching points,” Shanahan said. “I don’t want him thinking about how the play is supposed to be. I want him reacting, and hopefully when someone is open, he reacts and lets it rip.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BmarvB Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 (edited) QB position is just that bad. Hackett has nothing to work with there. That'll be Marrone's excuse to keep him. Edited December 14, 2014 by BmarvB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitro Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 Bills will have to look long and hard at the Coaching Staff. Some will be gone. Hackett has to be taken to task for design of the offense, types of plays they run and utilization of personnel. There is need for improvement. Talent upgrade is needed on the interior Offensive line. That can be taken care of in the draft. The draft will not solve anyone's need for a franchise QB. Looks like you can get a decent back up, spot starter type. Free agency will be a mixed bag. It looks like another year of Orton and maybe EJ. Both guys will have to elevate and clean up their games. Future is bright for the Bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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