Rob's House Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Come on now. Follow that thought to it's logical conclusion. You are saying that each state will have it's own Department of Immigration. Each state will have its own independent policy on immigration. So you'll have customs and immigration at each state border between states, because you've abolished the unifying system. That's not at all what I was saying. You asked the mind numbing question, where does the constitution deny this power. I'm showing you where the constitution denies the government all power not delegated to it by the constitution. Rather than wave the white flag you could have looked for where the constitution addresses such matters, which is what I was hoping for, but predictably you outdid yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 the one that created the immigration department he is in charge of That's not how it works. Government agencies typically have shelves full of reams of paper detailing the policies and procedures they are required to follow. Those are almost all Congressional, not executive. The system I'm currently designing has a 120 page architectural description that references 30 pages of executive guidelines and 1,400 pages of legal code, passed by Congress, that must be satisfied. The president may be "in charge of" the system I'm designing, or the department I'm designing it for. But he has very limited ability to dictate what it will do and how it will do it, because ultimately it's the legislation I have to answer to. I have no concerns about the President asking about my project; there is a realistic chance, however, that I could be hauled in front of Congress to explain it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Who is Yuri? Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Missed this part last night when Obama was explaining how the illegals will be "paying their fair share." All hail the "Have-A-Baby Incentive Program For the Poor!" It is going to be very busy. [/size][/font][/color][/size][/font][/color] Get that garbage off the internet. It has nothing to do with what was said last night and is just baseless fearmongering. The illegals who report aren't going to get EITC, and if they commit fraud they'll be deported. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 The illegals who report aren't going to get EITC, and if they commit fraud they'll be deported. Unless Obama has a press conference and makes a new law where they're eligible... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 "To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers" And what article of the constitution is that from? And which branch of government is outlined in that article? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keukasmallies Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 They're calling it "an empty Labatts bottle" now? If I had said "magic lamp," g'man could have accused Republicans of practicing ju ju, 'mon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/every-presidents-executive-actions-in-one-chart/ Oh, this goes on all the time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 the one that created the immigration department he is in charge of Which one, and what specific language is he interpreting broadly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 From Article 2 Section 1:(The one that talks about the executive - for FF, that's the President) 8: Before he enter on the Execution of his Office, he shall take the following Oath or Affirmation:—“I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.” From Article 2 Section 3: "...he shall take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Who is Yuri? Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 From Article 2 Section 1:(The one that talks about the executive - for FF, that's the President) 8: Before he enter on the Execution of his Office, he shall take the following Oath or Affirmation:—"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States." From Article 2 Section 3: "...he shall take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed..." go on... and he shall have power to grant reprieves and pardons for offenses against the United States... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Get that garbage off the internet. It has nothing to do with what was said last night and is just baseless fearmongering. The illegals who report aren't going to get EITC, and if they commit fraud they'll be deported. We'll only see when it's too late, won't we? The difference between someone like yourself and someone like me is I stop believing someone who lies as blatantly and often as this president does. You'd probably feel the same if you didn't have your copy/paste thinking cap on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 go on... and he shall have power to grant reprieves and pardons for offenses against the United States... Wow... This is a wild shift of the goal posts... So you've changed your argument, and now are asserting that what President Obama did was assert the Presidential Pardon Clause? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Who is Yuri? Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 We're up to our elbows in the Constitution here. Quoting real text. It's magnificent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 We're up to our elbows in the Constitution here. Quoting real text. It's magnificent. Given that you're making a Constitutional argument, you don't feel that's appropriate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Who is Yuri? Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 (edited) Wow... This is a wild shift of the goal posts... So you've changed your argument, and now are asserting that what President Obama did was assert the Presidential Pardon Clause? Caught you off guard? Now, I've got 'em on the run! Let me just cut and paste some of the speech, since it's relevant. "This deal does not apply to anyone who has come to this country recently. It does not apply to anyone who might come to America illegally in the future. It does not grant citizenship or the right to stay here permanently, or offer the same benefits that citizens receive. Only Congress can do that. All we’re saying is we’re not going to deport you." My opinion is that by registering these specific illegals, parents with kids, and promising young professionals, registering them, and setting them aside, he clears the ground for the sort of Eisenhower style mass round up and deportation that so many crave. Edited November 21, 2014 by Franz Kafka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 (edited) Caught you off guard? Now, I've got 'em on the run! Let me just cut and paste some of the speech, since it's relevant. "This deal does not apply to anyone who has come to this country recently. It does not apply to anyone who might come to America illegally in the future. It does not grant citizenship or the right to stay here permanently, or offer the same benefits that citizens receive. Only Congress can do that. All we’re saying is we’re not going to deport you." My opinion is that by registering these specific illegals, parents with kids, and promising young professionals, registering them, and setting them aside, he clears the ground for the sort of Eisenhower style mass round up and deportation that so many crave. So... You're asserting that each of the illegal immigrants in question has gone through the Presidential Pardon process? The Presidential Pardon process includes a 5 year waiting period after the completeion of a Federal sentence, or failing an incarceration period, the pardon eligibility phase begins on the date of sentencing. After these specific timelines have been met, the petitioner must complete and file a 20 page petition which includes providing detailed information on the crimes of conviction, criminal record, employment history, and medical history amongst many others. These petitions then make their way through a filtration process at the Justice Department, and then arrive on the President's desk, awaiting his final decision. So, I ask again, for the sake of clarity, you're asserting that this is what happened with each individual illegal immigrant impacted? Edited November 21, 2014 by TakeYouToTasker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 We're up to our elbows in the Constitution here. Quoting real text. It's magnificent. You've got several lawyers and law students on this board who are FAR more knowledgeable than you are on the topic. http://fivethirtyeig...s-in-one-chart/ Oh, this goes on all the time? How many of those were to rewrite an existing law because Congress wouldn't do what the President wanted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 US Senator Joe Donnelly, D-IN: "The President shouldn't make such significant policy changes on his own"........ http://indy.st/1vtX54G Big business not really in favor of President Obama's executive action. They wanted a bipartisan congressional response http://fortune.com/2...-spot/ … Reminder: Carl Levin D - MI ...........He described withholding funds for the executive orders on immigration as a standard congressional procedure that should not be confused with shutting down the government. "That's not slash and burn," he said. "That's not bringing down the government. That's a fairly traditional, targeted approach to make a policy point" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Who is Yuri? Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 So... You're asserting that each of the illegal immigrants in question has gone through the Presidential Pardon process? The Presidential Pardon process includes a 5 year waiting period after the completeion of a Federal sentence, or failing an incarceration period, the pardon eligibility phase begins on the date of sentencing. After these specific timelines have been met, the petitioner must complete and file a 20 page petition which includes providing detailed information on the crimes of conviction, criminal record, employment history, and medical history amongst many others. These petitions then make their way through a filtration process at the Justice Department, and then arrive on the President's desk, awaiting his final decision. So, I ask again, for the sake of clarity, you're asserting that this is what happened with each individual illegal immigrant impacted? You're trying to pin me down on the pardon. Reprieves or pardons. It's an executive action. If you're looking for the fine print details, ask one of DC Tom's lawyer friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 (edited) You're trying to pin me down on the pardon. Reprieves or pardons. It's an executive action. If you're looking for the fine print details, ask one of DC Tom's lawyer friends. If you'd prefer, I'll tie you down to reprieves. They are granted to individuals, rather than groups; and are awarded after an individual request. And I'll ask you, since you're the one who referenced the Presidential Pardon Clause. Where would you like to shift the goal-posts to next, now that this door has been slammed in your face? Edited November 21, 2014 by TakeYouToTasker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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