BillsFan-4-Ever Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 See? You can't help yourself. oh the irony so you are 100% happy with the Bills offense, got it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 oh the irony so you are 100% happy with the Bills offense, got it. Still can't stop, huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 (edited) Still can't stop, huh? I have tried to stop for over a week yet you still persist in bringing up bad assumptions on my part. answer the question and I will stop. are you 100% satisfied with the Bills offense YES or NO? Edited October 30, 2014 by BillsFan-4-Ever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Yet everyone is free to complain about EJ week after week? Bright spots? My complaints were about INT's, fumbles and sacks. Everything else people ASSUMED. You have to be concerned about the QB, whomever the he may be when it comes to INT's, fumbles and sacks. All of them were there for KO's first 3 games. That was mitigated Sunday, possible by keeping the number of pass plays down. Or the ineptness of the NYETS By this logic no one should be complaining about the O-Lone, Hacket, Marone or anyone else. well that too. I am gonna say this regarding the turnovers by Orton - First....he did not turn the ball over against the jets. - He did however have turnovers prior to that.....I think that if we are gonna hitch our team to the Orton Wagon we need to accept the fact that he is gonna throw a interception here and there.....we are SO USED to EJ Manuel being ultra conservative with the ball that we are not used to seeing a QB throw a interception......CONFIDENT QB's THROW INTERCEPTIONS - So....the question then becomes....now what? Lets keep in mind that our Offensive line cannot block for a 100 yard game rushing for running backs that we know to be talented. - Lets keep in mind that prior to the jets game LT and LG couldnt pick up a stunt if their lives depended on it. SOOOOO.....the two big things that must improve if we are on the Orton train......better interior OL play for both run blocking and pass protection. Because we have SEEN what Orton does with a clean pocket.....a. he will still throw a interception from time to time throwing into a tight spot but b. The guy can flat throw the ball and he has a emerging superstart to throw it to. bottom line....I will live with the interceptions here and there if we can get the rest of this fixed. Orton in my opinon is a pretty darn good qb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 I have tried to stop for over a week yet you still persist in bringing up bad assumptions on my part. answer the question and I will stop. are you 100% satisfied with the Bills offense YES or NO? No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 I am gonna say this regarding the turnovers by Orton - First....he did not turn the ball over against the jets. - He did however have turnovers prior to that.....I think that if we are gonna hitch our team to the Orton Wagon we need to accept the fact that he is gonna throw a interception here and there.....we are SO USED to EJ Manuel being ultra conservative with the ball that we are not used to seeing a QB throw a interception......CONFIDENT QB's THROW INTERCEPTIONS - So....the question then becomes....now what? Lets keep in mind that our Offensive line cannot block for a 100 yard game rushing for running backs that we know to be talented. - Lets keep in mind that prior to the jets game LT and LG couldnt pick up a stunt if their lives depended on it. SOOOOO.....the two big things that must improve if we are on the Orton train......better interior OL play for both run blocking and pass protection. Because we have SEEN what Orton does with a clean pocket.....a. he will still throw a interception from time to time throwing into a tight spot but b. The guy can flat throw the ball and he has a emerging superstart to throw it to. bottom line....I will live with the interceptions here and there if we can get the rest of this fixed. Orton in my opinon is a pretty darn good qb. lost in all the BS arguments ... I don't think I have said that much different. When I say the team should have scored more points with a short field I meant everyone. Not just KO. I noted the Jets game and 0 INT's by KO. no argument there Hear me out In the first 4 weeks the Bills were gaining 4.0 ypc In the last 4 weeks the average is 2.9 ypc. (5.4 vs the Vikes skew's the avg to the good) Has the O-Line changed that much? The QB gets too much credit and too much blame. I credit KO for good 10 - 15 yard passes to SW and I credit SW for 50 and 60 YAC's. Is that an insult to KO? I don't think so. Thank you I am done with this argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 lost in all the BS arguments ... I don't think I have said that much different. When I say the team should have scored more points with a short field I meant everyone. Not just KO. I noted the Jets game and 0 INT's by KO. no argument there Hear me out In the first 4 weeks the Bills were gaining 4.0 ypc In the last 4 weeks the average is 2.9 ypc. (5.4 vs the Vikes skew's the avg to the good) Has the O-Line changed that much? The QB gets too much credit and too much blame. I credit KO for good 10 - 15 yard passes to SW and I credit SW for 50 and 60 YAC's. Is that an insult to KO? I don't think so. Thank you I am done with this argument. So do you not think Montana was great? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 oh the irony so you are 100% happy with the Bills offense, got it. Does everything have to be 100% YES-NO? Isn't the truth usually found in between? So do you not think Montana was great? I think he would be shocked to know that good QB's throw INTs too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Yeah, I think I'm just gonna put this joker on ignore. Bills fan forever, my ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Does everything have to be 100% YES-NO? Isn't the truth usually found in between? I think he would be shocked to know that good QB's throw INTs too. No they don't. There's always room for improvement. I'm going to criticize Orton until he goes 40-40 for 500 yards 8 TD's and 0 picks. And even then, why didn't he get 9? And we didn't run the football that well. What a bum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddog69 Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 I don't know what people are so consumed with predicting the future. "Orton is our Rich Gannon", "EJ will never be good", "Watkins will be one of the best ever", etc. Time will decide all of these things. Don't be in such a rush to pick the future. Enjoy the present. Orton has played pretty well and the receivers have responded. The team has won some games against competition they should beat. Lets not get ahead of ourselves. Hopefully they continue to win and get back into the playoffs. At the end of the season, we can decide just how well Orton performed. He is a solid NFL QB. Hopefully this is the right situation for him to flourish. Time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 (edited) SOOOOO.....the two big things that must improve if we are on the Orton train......better interior OL play for both run blocking and pass protection. Because we have SEEN what Orton does with a clean pocket.....a. he will still throw a interception from time to time throwing into a tight spot but b. The guy can flat throw the ball and he has a emerging superstart to throw it to. bottom line....I will live with the interceptions here and there if we can get the rest of this fixed. Orton in my opinon is a pretty darn good qb. In the game agains the Jets he made two exceptional throws that I have not very often seen from the hometown qb post Kelly era. He made a precise pass to Woods who was covered like a blanket for a TD. Woods used his body to screen out the CB and made the catch. There was no margin for area for the pass because the the receiver was well covered. He zinged it in there. The other exceptional pass was the pass to Chandler in the endzone. Orton had to throw the pass to a well covered Chandler who had DBs in front of him and behind him. The coverage was excellent. Orton with a good touch and velocity got the pass over the CB in front of Chandler and layed it in there so the receiver covering Chandler from behind couldn't respond to the accurately thrown pass. It was a beautifully thrown ball. In the game against Minnesota on the critical last drive Orton threw a strike to Watkins who gained enough YAC to get a first down and keep the drive alive. What was most impressive about that pass was that it allowed Watkins to keep his stride after catching the pass. It's been a long time since we have had a qb who is as accurate as he is. He is not simply a thrower but he is an accomplished passer. Edited October 30, 2014 by JohnC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 So do you not think Montana was great? This is a no Troll Zone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 This is a no Troll Zone Not a troll question, it was a serious one in an attempt to poke holes in your "analysis." If you truly give the receiver all the credit for YAC, and none to the QB, then you shouldn't think Montana was great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JC2002 Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 (edited) I am gonna say this regarding the turnovers by Orton - First....he did not turn the ball over against the jets. - He did however have turnovers prior to that.....I think that if we are gonna hitch our team to the Orton Wagon we need to accept the fact that he is gonna throw a interception here and there.....we are SO USED to EJ Manuel being ultra conservative with the ball that we are not used to seeing a QB throw a interception......CONFIDENT QB's THROW INTERCEPTIONS - So....the question then becomes....now what? Lets keep in mind that our Offensive line cannot block for a 100 yard game rushing for running backs that we know to be talented. - Lets keep in mind that prior to the jets game LT and LG couldnt pick up a stunt if their lives depended on it. SOOOOO.....the two big things that must improve if we are on the Orton train......better interior OL play for both run blocking and pass protection. Because we have SEEN what Orton does with a clean pocket.....a. he will still throw a interception from time to time throwing into a tight spot but b. The guy can flat throw the ball and he has a emerging superstart to throw it to. bottom line....I will live with the interceptions here and there if we can get the rest of this fixed. Orton in my opinon is a pretty darn good qb. Fans just like the offense have got need help breaking them of the bad habits they learned from EJ. Orton was considered by most a captain checkdown almost entirely based on his time with the Bears so he knows how to play conservative football the probably was that EJ had been so conservative for so long the offense struggled to do anything consistently outside . So Orton of course of going to be ultra aggressive and even take a few sacks because the line is conditioned that the ball is gonna be dumped off in 2 seconds . Orton will take a sack because he knows that down the line he will need that 4 seconds for play that possibly wins the game and so the line has to learn to give him that 4 seconds it may take them until the send of the season get there but I think they will do it . When you read about how Orton responds to the turnovers and compare it to how people respond around here to turnovers its actually pretty funny http://www.rochester...jYUugE8qVKmRzGQ Through good and bad in Buffalo, Orton has showed little emotion and the Bills love him for it. The team started noticing with his reaction to a pick-six in his first game against Detroit. "You look at it and go wow, this is a big moment to see how he's going to respond and see what kind of person he is, when something that bad happens," Hackett said. "The best thing about Kyle is he doesn't care. He is just straight even keeled the whole time. I mean, he throws a pick six and I'm sitting here like oh my gosh what's gonna go on, then we go down 14-zero and he comes right back and just hey, what's the next play." Edited October 30, 2014 by JC2002 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Not a troll question, it was a serious one in an attempt to poke holes in your "analysis." If you truly give the receiver all the credit for YAC, and none to the QB, then you shouldn't think Montana was great. Asking about Montana had nothing to do with what I posted. ergo a Troll post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Asking about Montana had nothing to do with what I posted. ergo a Troll post. It's a logical conclusion to your assertions. That has everything to do with your posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 In the game agains the Jets he made two exceptional throws that I have not very often seen from the hometown qb post Kelly era. He made a precise pass to Woods who was covered like a blanket for a TD. Woods used his body to screen out the CB and made the catch. There was no margin for area for the pass because the the receiver was well covered. He zinged it in there. The other exceptional pass was the pass to Chandler in the endzone. Orton had to throw the pass to a well covered Chandler who had DBs in front of him and behind him. The coverage was excellent. Orton with a good touch and velocity got the pass over the CB in front of Chandler and layed it in there so the receiver covering Chandler from behind couldn't respond to the accurately thrown pass. It was a beautifully thrown ball. In the game against Minnesota on the critical last drive Orton threw a strike to Watkins who gained enough YAC to get a first down and keep the drive alive. What was most impressive about that pass was that it allowed Watkins to keep his stride after catching the pass. It's been a long time since we have had a qb who is as accurate as he is. He is not simply a thrower but he is an accomplished passer. The bomb to Watkins was a perfect throw, from the 10 yard line. The slant that Watkins caught and exploded on for the 61 yard score, if it were six inches either way he may not have been able to catch it on the dead run like that and catch the Jets by surprise by his acceleration. That's a very underestimated element of Orton's passing ability. He hits guys on the dead run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 (edited) The bomb to Watkins was a perfect throw, from the 10 yard line. The slant that Watkins caught and exploded on for the 61 yard score, if it were six inches either way he may not have been able to catch it on the dead run like that and catch the Jets by surprise by his acceleration. That's a very underestimated element of Orton's passing ability. He hits guys on the dead run. As you noted he regularly hits his receivers in stride so they can seamlessly run after catch. Contrast that with EJ who (at this point) seems incapable of hitting the receiver, including the backs, in stride. I don't want to veer away from the topic and gratuitously criticize Manuel as a passer. But I've come to the conclusion that you either have accuracy from the start, with a limited ability to dramatically improve that aspect of the game, or you don't. QBs such as Jake Locker and EJ have impressive physical attributes and high character traits that can tantalize the scouts but in the end you either can accurately throw the ball with touch or you can't. Edited October 30, 2014 by JohnC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formerly Allan in MD Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Enough with the Orton v EJ BS. I let it go so should you. If the team is lacking in a certain area I have every right to say something about it. Other people post the same things I do yet you are not hounding them every day. I enjoy the season the same as I do every year. Win or lose I bi+ch and complain every time a Bills player does something stupid. the issue is that the Orton is God clic can't handle a bit of criticism. Please move on as I am trying to do. You're moving on to what? If you can't handle the discussion, don't read about it. As you noted he regularly hits his receivers in stride so they can seamlessly run after catch. Contrast that with EJ who (at this point) seems incapable of hitting the receiver, including the backs, in stride. I don't want to veer away from the topic and gratuitously criticize Manuel as a passer. But I've come to the conclusion that you either have accuracy from the start, with a limited ability to dramatically improve that aspect of the game, or you don't. QBs such as Jake Locker and EJ have impressive physical attributes and high character traits that can tantalize the scouts but in the end you either can accurately throw the ball with touch or you can't. Please criticize EJ as a passer. He's earned it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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