Kyle Orton Haters

[3rdand12]

You have SERIOUSLY lost it man. You're so far gone there's no getting you back.

 

Just above EJ?

 

In ONE LESS GAME THAN EJ, Orton already has more passing yards and the same amount of TD's - which happens to be the #1 purpose of a QB unlike your belief that the #1 purpose of a QB is to protect the ball - if that were the case, the QB would never pass and just kneel every play - there, ball protected.

 

Again, IN ONE LESS GAME vs Defenses that are all ranked higher in pts/game against than the defenses EJ went against (including the chargers - lions give up less pts/game). He has already out thrown EJ and tied him in TD's. No OTAs. No training camp. Off the street. Off RETIREMENT.

 

Orton is completing his passes at a 68.5% clip - WHICH IS 3RD IN THE LEAGUE ONLY BEHIND ROMO AND MANNING - compared to EJ's putrid 58.0% completion % which on par with the likes of Jake Locker and Geno Smith.

 

Get a clue man.

I cant get too excited either way about both of them .

Since Orton is the Man up i can only hope the line can protect him all season.

But i am not feelin it.

Orton will carry the team a bit further if ? He does not die in the trying. At least he is a baller. If EJ can get that from the sideline and make use of it , maybe we can keep hope alive.

Orton > Kolb etc

Orton has the tools EJ is missing. Study hard Manuel ! you never know when its next Man up .

[rsherman12]

I think it's clear that Orton is currently better than EJ. The more important question is whether or not this helps the bills in the long run (i.e. by giving EJ some time to learn and improve).

[Bronc24]

 

 

Haha. I never wanted Tuel to start. And are we really sure Orton is better than Fitz, a guy who most wanted gone? Because I'm not.

 

All will be fine if we make the playoffs. But if we don't, there will be some major questions to answer.

 

Yes. He is. He is more accurate, especially beyond 15 yards and he actually completes a pass to guys in Bills uniforms rather the opposition with the game on the line.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

You have SERIOUSLY lost it man. You're so far gone there's no getting you back.

Just above EJ?

In ONE LESS GAME THAN EJ, Orton already has more passing yards and the same amount of TD's - which happens to be the #1 purpose of a QB unlike your belief that the #1 purpose of a QB is to protect the ball - if that were the case, the QB would never pass and just kneel every play - there, ball protected.

Again, IN ONE LESS GAME vs Defenses that are all ranked higher in pts/game against than the defenses EJ went against (including the chargers - lions give up less pts/game). He has already out thrown EJ and tied him in TD's. No OTAs. No training camp. Off the street. Off RETIREMENT.

Orton is completing his passes at a 68.5% clip - WHICH IS 3RD IN THE LEAGUE ONLY BEHIND ROMO AND MANNING - compared to EJ's putrid 58.0% completion % which on par with the likes of Jake Locker and Geno Smith.

Get a clue man.

 

How about you're both incorrect?

 

BillsFan-4-Ever is, as you point out, looking at a list of QB sorted by passing yardage without thinking about what it means that Orton is slightly above EJ after playing 3 games vs 4.

 

You, on the other hand, are milking an agenda where it seems you look only at completion percentage and pass yards, without considering the impact that fumbles, INTs, and sacks have on the game. No, it isn't sufficient for a QB to just pass for a lot of yards. That's only part of his job.

 

Both of these points could be made without resorting to insult-slinging like "get a clue, man" and "you're so far gone there's no getting you back". So give that a thought, K, if you choose to continue this discussion?

 

Yes. He is. He is more accurate, especially beyond 15 yards and he actually completes a pass to guys in Bills uniforms rather the opposition with the game on the line.

 

To be fair to Fitz, he had his share of dramatic comebacks and game-winning drives in a Bills uniform, which is why he got that big fat juicy contract.

Then he regressed to his mean, which one must keep in mind Orton has not yet had time to do, and it's to be hoped he won't.

 

Well, those stats kinda bear that out.

 

Again, if you think 19 points per game is fine, more power to you. I'd love to see a 30 point game and I could care less how many yards passing Orton has. Just put points on the board. The defense is going to break down if we keep asking them to win games.

 

This. A guy who has an eye for the cogent point in this slang-festival thread.

 

I don't know who has the responsibility, but some QB call the line protections, as well as the variant of the play being called. They also audible. Then there are the visible factors such as selling a play fake. I have no idea how much of the plummeting run production can be laid at Orton's door, nor do any of us, really. All I know is that while passing attempts, yardage and completions are up, offensive production is NOT, and that's the bottom line.

 

If passing yardage were all that mattered, Cam Newton and his 4000+ yd rookie season would have taken the Pant-hers to the SB instead of home with a 6-10 record.

[T master]

Every one was saying by putting Orton in it would hurt EJ . Well EJ was hurting not only himself but the team too with his below average play ..

 

Every game that Orton has played he has put up over 100 more per game than EJ which is better for the team & won 2 games that we would have lost with EJ at the helm .

 

So go ahead & hate some Orton but he's got my vote going forward until we find a young QB or a veteran to replace Orton ...

[Dorkington]

It's crazy how intense this has gotten.

 

EJ Pro: Can get out of pressure situations better, and protects the ball better.

EJ Con: Doesn't take many chances, less accurate, and doesn't read the defense quite as well.

 

KO Pro: More accurate, ball comes out faster, throws are harder, reads defenses better. Willing to stand in the pocket to make a throw.

KO Con: Doesn't protect the ball very well when under pressure. Throws bad interceptions sometimes.

 

I'll take KO for now, assuming he can get back into things and protect the ball better. But, EJ may very well grow his game over the next few seasons, so I see no reason to give up on him yet.

[RuntheDamnBall]

It's crazy how intense this has gotten.

 

EJ Pro: Can get out of pressure situations better, and protects the ball better.

EJ Con: Doesn't take many chances, less accurate, and doesn't read the defense quite as well.

 

KO Pro: More accurate, ball comes out faster, throws are harder, reads defenses better. Willing to stand in the pocket to make a throw.

KO Con: Doesn't protect the ball very well when under pressure. Throws bad interceptions sometimes.

 

I'll take KO for now, assuming he can get back into things and protect the ball better. But, EJ may very well grow his game over the next few seasons, so I see no reason to give up on him yet.

Agreed.

Also,

KO Pro: calmer in the high pressure situations. Does not seem to get rattled as easily.

 

KO Con: cannot move at all.

[Dorkington]

Agreed.

Also,

KO Pro: calmer in the high pressure situations. Does not seem to get rattled as easily.

 

KO Con: cannot move at all.

 

He puts the statue in the Statue of Liberty play.

[dundy249]

Blows my mind how some people cant see he is our best chance to win right now....

 

 

Look at these stats...1.48 td to 1.09 interception ...58 percent completion percentage and average of 2 plus sacks per game(with a good line) 7.4 ypa

 

 

 

Can you guess....yes the almighty Jim Kelly....its not about stats...its about winning

 

 

 

Lets just keep winning.

[Maury Ballstein]

won 2 games that we would have lost with EJ at the helm .

 

 

 

Link ?

[JC2002]

He puts the statue in the Statue of Liberty play.

 

Found this on youtube the other day

 

 

Orton is not a instinctual runner and he doesn't want to run ala Brady or Manning but he can slide in the pocket and move around but you have to think hes really just finding out who he can trust on that line .

[garbag3man]

Found this on youtube the other day

 

 

Orton is not a instinctual runner and he doesn't want to run ala Brady or Manning but he can slide in the pocket and move around but you have to think hes really just finding out who he can trust on that line .

 

Judging by the way he looks, that may have been 2-300 bottles of jack ago...

 

That being said, if our protection is as bad as it is, maybe moving the pocket would be a smart thing for Hackett to try. Let KO show off the rockets he has attached to those legs!!

[jester43]

I've been seeing/hearing a lot of Kyle Orton hating, both on this forum and on WGR,

from callers? id say the hosts have been quite complementary and acknowledged what he is: no stud, but the best qb on the roster.

[John Cocktosten]

This. A guy who has an eye for the cogent point in this slang-festival thread.

 

I don't know who has the responsibility, but some QB call the line protections, as well as the variant of the play being called. They also audible. Then there are the visible factors such as selling a play fake. I have no idea how much of the plummeting run production can be laid at Orton's door, nor do any of us, really. All I know is that while passing attempts, yardage and completions are up, offensive production is NOT, and that's the bottom line.

 

If passing yardage were all that mattered, Cam Newton and his 4000+ yd rookie season would have taken the Pant-hers to the SB instead of home with a 6-10 record.

 

Cool self righteous take. The irony is that you continue the "slang fest" by proclaiming both posters are wrong.

 

No one is saying passing yardage is all that matters but a below average passing game does. EJ's second half numbers and 4th qtr+/-7 are horrendous which means that once teams get a look at him and adjust their game plan, EJ's production plummets and the Bills become one dimensional.

 

In the second half of games this year, EJ's Comp% goes down almost 10 points to 53%, QBR drops 20 full points to 69%. His comp % while trailing or leading by 7 in the 4th is 43% with a 31 QBR. His RZ #'s aren't so great either with a 42% comp%. So again, while a ton of passing yardage doesn't necessarily equate to wins, an inept one is disastrous. Orton's numbers are the compete opposite in all of those categories. In fact, Orton's numbers are superior in all passing categories. Those are the money metrics

 

​Btw, the Bills are 2-1 since Orton took over so bringing up Cam Newton's losing season is meaningless and has a lot more to do with Carolina being the worst team in the NFL the year before than a rookie QBs passing yardage. .

Edited October 22, 2014 by John Cocktosten

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Blows my mind how some people cant see he is our best chance to win right now....

Look at these stats...1.48 td to 1.09 interception ...58 percent completion percentage and average of 2 plus sacks per game(with a good line) 7.4 ypa

Can you guess....yes the almighty Jim Kelly....its not about stats...its about winning

Lets just keep winning.

 

Dundy, I don't know what thread you're reading, but I don't see anyone who doesn't think he's the better of our options right now.

What I see is:

1) people who equate any criticism of Orton's play right now with "hating" "EJ love" or with not thinking Orton is the better chance to win right now.

T'aint so. One can critique a player, justifiably, without "hating" him or wanting him yanked. And one can think EJ may still be a good QB someday without "hating" Orton. or wanting EJ to start again right now.

2) people who think QB play is all about passing yardage. Sorry, it's not just the INTs, it's also the fumbles and the sacks.

3) I'm happy we're winning, but as a fan, I'm dumb if I don't think the offensive production needs to improve still, and part of that IS on the QB.

4) at least we all seem to agree our OL blows chunks

Edited October 22, 2014 by Hopeful

[GunnerBill]

Well said Hopeful. I am more than hopeful someone listens to you.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Cool self righteous take. The irony is that you continue the "slang fest" by proclaiming both posters are wrong.

 

Can you really not see a difference between saying "you're wrong" and providing evidence to back up that opinion, vs using language like "get a clue, man" and "you're so far gone there's no getting you back"? Telling someone you disagree, or that they're wrong, is not slanging them especially if it's followed by laying it out there factually, why you hold thta opinion.

 

Making it personal - "get a clue" "you're so far gone" "you're a hater" - that's slanging, and it really doesn't belong on this board. There is a difference. Give it a thought.

 

And yes, I do see people pointing to Orton's higher passing yardage and completion percentage as though that's all that matters. I'm not going to draw you a list, but the claim "no one is saying that" does not appear to hold up to the careful reader. That was my point in bringing up Cam Newton - passing yardage and completion percentage both do matter, but so do fumbles, INTs, and sacks.

 

We both agree that an inept passing game is a disaster, and yes, EJ's passing game has been significantly worse than Orton's this season. I would like to see people accept that other aspects of Orton's game can be criticized at present without equating to "hate" or a desire for EJ to return as the starter. We're all fans and we want the Bills to win.

 

I agree with those who say unless our OL improves, it's inevitable EJ will return sooner or later when Orton goes down after one of those sacks.

Edited October 22, 2014 by Hopeful

[A Dog Named Kelso]

Dundy, I don't know what thread you're reading, but I don't see anyone who doesn't think he's the better of our options right now.

What I see is:

1) people who equate any criticism of Orton's play right now with "hating" "EJ love" or with not thinking Orton is the better chance to win right now.

T'aint so. One can critique a player, justifiably, without "hating" him or wanting him yanked. And one can think EJ may still be a good QB someday without "hating" Orton. or wanting EJ to start again.

2) people who think QB play is all about passing yardage. Sorry, it's not just the INTs, it's also the fumbles and the sacks.

3) I'm happy we're winning, but as a fan, I'm dumb if I don't think the offensive production needs to improve still, and part of that IS on the QB.

4) at least we all seem to agree our OL blows chunks

 

If you read all the posts there are some who believe EJ would be just as capable, because he has shown some attribute they believe are better than those shown by Orton.

 

What do you consider Offensive Production? That is a point of contention in this thread I think. If we measure it by TDs then we have to remove special teams and short fields provided by the defense, correct? Otherwise the only way to measure production is total yardage that the offense has moved the ball, isn't it?

 

Also, one cannot attribute all the offense to a QB one way or the other and must use the same criteria for whoever is leading the offense. I have seen some who attribute certain plays for one player and then remove the same type of play to another to help prove their point.

Edited October 22, 2014 by A Dog Named Kelso

[chris heff]

It's crazy how intense this has gotten.

 

EJ Pro: Can get out of pressure situations better, and protects the ball better.

EJ Con: Doesn't take many chances, less accurate, and doesn't read the defense quite as well.

 

KO Pro: More accurate, ball comes out faster, throws are harder, reads defenses better. Willing to stand in the pocket to make a throw.

KO Con: Doesn't protect the ball very well when under pressure. Throws bad interceptions sometimes.

 

I'll take KO for now, assuming he can get back into things and protect the ball better. But, EJ may very well grow his game over the next few seasons, so I see no reason to give up on him yet.

I agree. I have noticed that both QBs perform better in two minute drill than the rest of the game, could this have anything to do with Hackett?

[Rob's House]

 

This. A guy who has an eye for the cogent point in this slang-festival thread.

 

I don't know who has the responsibility, but some QB call the line protections, as well as the variant of the play being called. They also audible. Then there are the visible factors such as selling a play fake. I have no idea how much of the plummeting run production can be laid at Orton's door, nor do any of us, really. All I know is that while passing attempts, yardage and completions are up, offensive production is NOT, and that's the bottom line.

 

If passing yardage were all that mattered, Cam Newton and his 4000+ yd rookie season would have taken the Pant-hers to the SB instead of home with a 6-10 record.

 

Problem with that is rushing yards were trending down through the first 4 games of the season. It was a steady descent.