Captain Hindsight Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 Unless they win, house will be cleaned. If they lose, I would expect another year and then they are all out-- like what haslem did in Cleveland, if I recall correctly. Haslam might be the worst owner I've ever seen. Trade up for a player. Trade player after 15 games. Fire a coach after one year after giving him Brian Hoyer and Brandon Weededn to lead the team. Wait a month to hire a new bottom of the barrel coach, fire the people that hired said bottom of the barrel coach. Trade Sammy Watkins for a corner who isn't ready to play knowing the best receiver on your team is going to be suspended for a year. Cant believe they haven't turned it around yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickelCity Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 (edited) Haslam might be the worst owner I've ever seen. Trade up for a player. Trade player after 15 games. Fire a coach after one year after giving him Brian Hoyer and Brandon Weededn to lead the team. Wait a month to hire a new bottom of the barrel coach, fire the people that hired said bottom of the barrel coach. Trade Sammy Watkins for a corner who isn't ready to play knowing the best receiver on your team is going to be suspended for a year. Cant believe they haven't turned it around yet Despite all that, I think they actually are turning it around in Cleveland. Somehow. I don't think they're a cakewalk by any means. Pettine was a great hire. Edited September 10, 2014 by NickelCity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffOrange Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 Tell me which franchise QB would you have drafted two years ago or signed in FA since he took on the job? The loaded questions are better suited for everyone who thinks drafting two QBs every single year until you find a good one is a dumb idea. Or for someone who wasn't driving the "Suck For Luck" campaign, imo. But a QB class being lousy isn't a good reason to pigeon hole yourself into taking one in Round1 of said year. And it's certainly not a reason to double down with the Watkins deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 Despite all that, I think they actually are turning it around in Cleveland. Somehow. I don't think they're a cakewalk by any means. Pettine was a great hire. We'll see. The Bills were a tough out with Chan Gailey for a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 As much as things have gotten better on paper, it's all going to come down to results. If we finish sub .500, I can see him being cut, along with coaches and other FO personnel. Here's hoping that's all moot and we have a successful season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 The loaded questions are better suited for everyone who thinks drafting two QBs every single year until you find a good one is a dumb idea. Or for someone who wasn't driving the "Suck For Luck" campaign, imo. But a QB class being lousy isn't a good reason to pigeon hole yourself into taking one in Round1 of said year. And it's certainly not a reason to double down with the Watkins deal. But you and others are hanging the 12 year albatross around Whaley's neck when he simply was not making these decisions. Nix was making the calls on the draft and the QBs three years ago. Nix even LIKED Russell Wilson a lot and still ignored him to make the trade up for TJ Graham Cracker. For all intents and purposes, Whaley took over in the months leading up to the 2013 draft. It's less than two years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QCity Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 But you and others are hanging the 12 year albatross around Whaley's neck when he simply was not making these decisions. Nix was making the calls on the draft and the QBs three years ago. Nix even LIKED Russell Wilson a lot and still ignored him to make the trade up for TJ Graham Cracker. For all intents and purposes, Whaley took over in the months leading up to the 2013 draft. It's less than two years. He was Assistant General Manager and Director of Pro Personnel since 2010. People need to stop acting like he was sealed in a glass container, completely unable to give any input and not responsible for any of our moves - until the clock struck one day and he was named GM. It's what you want to believe, but it's not reality. Obviously you can't hang the 14 year albatross around his neck, but he's been a large part of the decision making process for the last 4 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 He was Assistant General Manager and Director of Pro Personnel since 2010. People need to stop acting like he was sealed in a glass container, completely unable to give any input and not responsible for any of our moves - until the clock struck one day and he was named GM. It's what you want to believe, but it's not reality. Obviously you can't hang the 14 year albatross around his neck, but he's been a large part of the decision making process for the last 4 years. And yet he doesn't make the decision on the most important position on the team, QB, when he was in that position, which is what this conversation is about. He just didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 Tell me which franchise QB would you have drafted two years ago or signed in FA since he took on the job? I guess the answer would have been to not draft a QB in the 1st round last year and hope Kevin Kolb would have been the starter and then pick a QB in Rd 3 or so. Again this is all hindsight. I am just answering what he could have done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 I guess the answer would have been to not draft a QB in the 1st round last year and hope Kevin Kolb would have been the starter and then pick a QB in Rd 3 or so. Again this is all hindsight. I am just answering what he could have done. That would have gone over and turned out well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 (edited) Tell me which franchise QB would you have drafted two years ago or signed in FA since he took on the job? Maybe the right approach was not to force the qb issue in that particular draft year and wait another draft year to invest in your future franchise qb? I'm not against the EJ selection. I'm open-minded about his prospects. The consensus from scouts on EJ was that he was a raw prospect who was going to take time before becoming a finished product. So it's certainly not an unreasonable position to take that the wiser approach would have been to wait another year. Is Carr or Bridgewater or Bortles or Grapola (sic) a better prospect? I don't know. The organization had a conviction on Manuel and they are invested in him. So you go with what you got and hope it works out. Edited September 10, 2014 by JohnC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 Maybe the right approach was not to force the qb issue in that particular draft year and wait another draft year to invest in your future franchise qb? I'm not against the EJ selection. I'm open-minded about his prospects. The consensus from scouts on EJ was that he was a raw prospect who was going to take time before becoming a finished product. So it's certainly not an unreasonable position to take that the wiser approach would have been to wait another year. Is Carr or Bridgewater or Bortles or Grapola (sic) a better prospect? I don't know. The organization had a conviction on Manuel and they are invested in him. So you go with what you got and hope it works out. Which is what he did, and then he went out and got one of the best backups in the league. And EJ played pretty damn good last week. I'm not saying EJ is going to be great or Whaley was a brilliant talent evaluator for drafting him. All I'm saying is that, as you know better than almost anyone, the Bills neglected that position woefully bad, or chose the wrong guys for the most important single position in team sports. As soon as he was in a position of authority, he drafted one number one (while trading down and getting KIKO too for crissakes) when there were no clear options, and now has a good backup. How anyone can just imply it's been 14 years of crappy QBs and hang that on him, or even anything that happened before him is beyond me. We well see over the next 15 and hopefully 15+ games this year if his choice, out of not few if any good ones, was a good one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 Which is what he did, and then he went out and got one of the best backups in the league. And EJ played pretty damn good last week. I'm not saying EJ is going to be great or Whaley was a brilliant talent evaluator for drafting him. All I'm saying is that, as you know better than almost anyone, the Bills neglected that position woefully bad, or chose the wrong guys for the most important single position in team sports. As soon as he was in a position of authority, he drafted one number one (while trading down and getting KIKO too for crissakes) when there were no clear options, and now has a good backup. How anyone can just imply it's been 14 years of crappy QBs and hang that on him, or even anything that happened before him is beyond me. We well see over the next 15 and hopefully 15+ games this year if his choice, out of not few if any good ones, was a good one. I''m not disagreeing with your position. All I'm saying is that those who are saying that he wasn't the best long term prospect don't have an unreasonable position. There might be some ill-informed extremists who are blaming Whaley for the past but that is a point of view that is so outlandish that it isn't worth the bother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffOrange Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 But you and others are hanging the 12 year albatross around Whaley's neck when he simply was not making these decisions. Nix was making the calls on the draft and the QBs three years ago. Nix even LIKED Russell Wilson a lot and still ignored him to make the trade up for TJ Graham Cracker. For all intents and purposes, Whaley took over in the months leading up to the 2013 draft. It's less than two years. OK then. So did he or did he not reach for a QB in round 1 in a weak qb class and trade away a 1st without a surefire franchise QB in house in those < 2 years? As much as you may want to for the purpose of winning your little internet argument, you can't blame either of those things on me or Mike Schopp or Holcomb's Arm or John in Fredonia or the previous 12 years. Sorry, you just can't. His career hinges on EJ and pretty much everyone knew that even before Ralph died. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPS Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 If, as I expect, the bills have a winning record, then they better keep the entire staff, including coaches. I for one think the trashing of Hackett, and by extension Marrone, has been stupid. It's amazing what winning does to make play calling look good. The bills did not lose games due to play calling last year, they lost because they started three green QBs, had no depth at CB, played lousy STs, and couldn't stop the run. The play calling in Chicago was essentially no different than it's been. The bills won because of stopping the run, great STs, and depth at CB. If EJ can hit the deep ball opportunities that are set up by hackett's conservative-looking play calling, the bills will win a lot of games, and the coaching staff should keep their jobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 OK then. So did he or did he not reach for a QB in round 1 in a weak qb class and trade away a 1st without a surefire franchise QB in house in those < 2 years? As much as you may want to for the purpose of winning your little internet argument, you can't blame either of those things on me or Mike Schopp or Holcomb's Arm or John in Fredonia or the previous 12 years. Sorry, you just can't. His career hinges on EJ and pretty much everyone knew that even before Ralph died. 1] We don't know if he reached for a QB in round 1. 2] I don't care if we didn't have a surefire franchise QB in the house when he makes that trade, I make that trade every day of the week regardless. 3] Who do you suggest he did choose as our franchise QB? I'm sure you would have been quiet had he not drafted any QB in the first three rounds, and then waited until THREE YEARS LATER when there MAY be a couple studs at the top of the draft in 2015. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QCity Posted September 11, 2014 Share Posted September 11, 2014 And yet he doesn't make the decision on the most important position on the team, QB, when he was in that position, which is what this conversation is about. He just didn't. That's not my point. Whaley certainly had input regarding the QB position since the day he arrived, to think otherwise is naive. You don't make someone your right-hand man and then lock them in a closet when making decisions at QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Zabka Posted September 11, 2014 Share Posted September 11, 2014 Whaley has a grade of Incomplete. He has made a bunch of risky moves and this season will go along way in seeing if they were the right ones. If they pay off he deserves to stay, if not then he should go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted September 11, 2014 Share Posted September 11, 2014 That's not my point. Whaley certainly had input regarding the QB position since the day he arrived, to think otherwise is naive. You don't make someone your right-hand man and then lock them in a closet when making decisions at QB. Nor do you blame him for his superior's mistakes. He may have wanted Russell Wilson, he may have wanted Jordan Palmer, we just don't know. To blame him for it is naive. He doesn't get credit for Stephon Gilmore and Marcel Dareus either, even though he may have had a say in their selection. For all we know he wanted someone else who sucked. But he wasn't making the pick, so he gets no credit and no blame. What can be argued, but I believe it's pretty clear, that Marrone and EJ were his choices, and he will be credited or criticized by their success or failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PO'14 Posted September 11, 2014 Share Posted September 11, 2014 Nor do you blame him for his superior's mistakes. He may have wanted Russell Wilson, he may have wanted Jordan Palmer, we just don't know. To blame him for it is naive. He doesn't get credit for Stephon Gilmore and Marcel Dareus either, even though he may have had a say in their selection. For all we know he wanted someone else who sucked. But he wasn't making the pick, so he gets no credit and no blame. What can be argued, but I believe it's pretty clear, that Marrone and EJ were his choices, and he will be credited or criticized by their success or failure. Thanks for your help with my the Orlando Irish Pub. However, who is this Stephon Gilmore that you write of? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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