CountryCletus Posted July 16, 2014 Author Share Posted July 16, 2014 Jon Gruden has praised every player in the history of the league and he's horrible on MNF. I get the point, guy praises Bills he's a genius, guy doesn't praise the Bills he's an idiot. We are currently caught in an interesting dynamic... I think it's a relatively popular opinion on here, and amongst all Bills fans that this team is much different (better) than teams we've fielded over the past 14 years. It's pleasant to see "experts" recognize that, but that doesn't happen all that often. I can totally understand that the only way to get respect in this league is to win... So I can see why 14 years of futility can make it easy for the talking heads to stick with the status quo evaluation. It's easy to consider Jaws less than an expert based on his past evaluations of players as mentioned above. Forget what the media says, forget what everyone says- get out there and show everybody what's happening at OBD!!! Love that savage mentality!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Landing Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 (edited) EJ, as a rookie missing half of his 1st training camp, posted a higher qb rating than Henne has in every season but 1 year. Henne played 4 games that year and posted a 79. EJ had a 77.7 this year. He also outplayed Henne head to head this year. Again, it's his opinion but it's pretty baseless. The quarterback rating is a pretty useless stat on its own, but I think it's especially useless in this context. The formula doesn't take into account the level of play any other player on the field. Certainly, we had a better team than the Jags last year. But, Jaw's list of quarterbacks, isn't a list merely based on qbr. As mediocre as Henne is, his play has been consistent throughout his career. Even when he was being openly booed in Miami by his own fans, during games and practice, his play remained consistent. (I found myself respecting him for that.) What we had last year from Manuel, was ten starts, inconsistent play, with a truncated playbook, and three knee injuries. And, yes, those injuries are certainly going to play into an objective list of starting qbs-- especially regarding one that has only played in one season. I believe that EJ will climb that list significantly. I believe he will have progressed substantially from last season. But, if he hasn't progressed from last season, and if it turns out that he doesn't have the ability to play the entire season, no objective observer is going to rank him higher than 27th. This ESPN/Jaws list is based on what has been seen on the field. I'm neither surprised by EJ's low rank, nor am I discouraged. Edited July 16, 2014 by Rocky Landing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Section242 Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 We are currently caught in an interesting dynamic... I think it's a relatively popular opinion on here, and amongst all Bills fans that this team is much different (better) than teams we've fielded over the past 14 years. It's pleasant to see "experts" recognize that, but that doesn't happen all that often. I can totally understand that the only way to get respect in this league is to win... So I can see why 14 years of futility can make it easy for the talking heads to stick with the status quo evaluation. It's easy to consider Jaws less than an expert based on his past evaluations of players as mentioned above. Forget what the media says, forget what everyone says- get out there and show everybody what's happening at OBD!!! Love that savage mentality!! It's all about E.J. if he's good the team will be good. If he's not then more of the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountryCletus Posted July 16, 2014 Author Share Posted July 16, 2014 It's all about E.J. if he's good the team will be good. If he's not then more of the same. I, for the most part, agree... I can see a rare 'Trent Dilfer' like scenario where we succeed with average QB play... But as often as that has happened in years past, I would say that it will take EJ performing as a top 15 QB to get us in serious contention... 16-20 may get us a sniff of the playoffs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Section242 Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 I, for the most part, agree... I can see a rare 'Trent Dilfer' like scenario where we succeed with average QB play... But as often as that has happened in years past, I would say that it will take EJ performing as a top 15 QB to get us in serious contention... 16-20 may get us a sniff of the playoffs I see some similarities with the Bengals. If E.J. can have an Andy Dalton like season then they could make the playoffs. At this point i'd take it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountryCletus Posted July 17, 2014 Author Share Posted July 17, 2014 agree 100%, that exactly who I was thinking of with that 16-20 ranking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 I see some similarities with the Bengals. If E.J. can have an Andy Dalton like season then they could make the playoffs. At this point i'd take it. yep. Bengals fans and the media are always whining about Dalton. They forgot already what it was like before he got there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountryCletus Posted July 17, 2014 Author Share Posted July 17, 2014 I don't think I would be really excited if that was EJ's ceiling... but I would be very satisfied if that was the step he took this year!! anything more than that is awesome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#34fan Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Man Oh man, I would have loved to see EJ groomed by a guy like Frank Reich. A guy who's actually PLAYED the position, and had modest success with it.... A guy who's been in those pressure situations. -A guy who's made those mistakes. -Why, why, why couldn't we have tapped that resource? EJ has tons of natural talent. unfortunately, mere talent isn't enough. Not-so-secretly I'm hoping Tuel and Lewis really shake his tree during TC. -Let him earn his spot this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 (edited) Man Oh man, I would have loved to see EJ groomed by a guy like Frank Reich. A guy who's actually PLAYED the position, and had modest success with it.... A guy who's been in those pressure situations. -A guy who's made those mistakes. -Why, why, why couldn't we have tapped that resource? EJ has tons of natural talent. unfortunately, mere talent isn't enough. Not-so-secretly I'm hoping Tuel and Lewis really shake his tree during TC. -Let him earn his spot this year. Reich has been with Tom Telesco for years. He brought him from Indy to SD. Metzelaars was coaching in Indy too when TT was there. He's been under contract as a position coach so buffalo could have only interviewed him for a OC or higher. Honestly he's a little raw but they promoted him in SD although MCCoy is calling the plays this year. As a QB coach, I could not agree more. He's good. Edited July 17, 2014 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Well the good thing ..... Jaws didn't rank him THE worse QB in the league. http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24621988/ron-jaworski-ranks-matt-cassel-as-nfls-worst-starting-qb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay_Fixit Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 I like Jaws most of the time....HOWEVER, he said Kaepernick could be one of the greatest QB's ever so yeah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Man Oh man, I would have loved to see EJ groomed by a guy like Frank Reich. A guy who's actually PLAYED the position, and had modest success with it.... A guy who's been in those pressure situations. -A guy who's made those mistakes. -Why, why, why couldn't we have tapped that resource? EJ has tons of natural talent. unfortunately, mere talent isn't enough. Not-so-secretly I'm hoping Tuel and Lewis really shake his tree during TC. -Let him earn his spot this year. 1) plenty of guys who never played in the NFL are very good coaches. Andy Reid was an offensive linemen at ByU and is considered one of the best qb coaches in the NFL. 2) EJ had over a 100 qb rating last preseason and outplayed Kolb, who had a better resume than Lewis and Tuel. This myth that EJ didn't earn the job last year is flat out false. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Landing Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 (edited) Also from ESPN: they have EJ ranked #25 in fantasy football rankings. Brady at #12, Vick at #27, and Geno at #29. Of course, these are valuations of production, rather than talent, and are also taken out of all active QBs (over 100 of them). Hence, Brady's low ranking. But, as I mentioned in another thread, I actually think that there are more analyses and intellectual muscle going into fantasy football rankings than in the pablum that is served up by blathering heads like Jaws. The former is a prediction of results, whereas the latter is based on subjective, and popular perception. EDIT: Henne, btw, is ranked #31 on this list. Fitz is #32; Cassel is #33. Edited July 17, 2014 by Rocky Landing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big C Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 I like Jaws most of the time....HOWEVER, he said Kaepernick could be one of the greatest QB's ever so yeah. Why can't he be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay_Fixit Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Why can't he be? He has a LONG way to go. Touch, accuracy, pocket presence all need work. It's not his fault he was gifted one of the best teams in the NFL but he's very lucky he was. He's an athletic freak, but as an actual quarterback, I don't see "one of the greatest ever" coming from him. But you have a point, "why can't he be?" Is a legit question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountryCletus Posted July 17, 2014 Author Share Posted July 17, 2014 Technically anyone can be one of the greatest QB's Better to hitch his wagon to him rather than Chad Henne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 I like Jaws most of the time....HOWEVER, he said Kaepernick could be one of the greatest QB's ever so yeah. Jaws says everybody is great. Doesn't want to hurt anyones feelings I guess. That's why he has so many he says would be good that aren't. Sometimes he's right. Broken clock syndrome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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