Gugny Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 You are suggesting that through allegedly 33 pages worth of text messages (font size not with standing) that if they discussed football, there is zero chance of a competitive advantage???? I am. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 (edited) Actually, more often than not, I refer to it as violation of league rules... It's got everything to do with fair play.... IF every other team, coach, etc is obeying said rule- the one (for the sake of arguing) that violates said rule gains an advantage at some level... I'm not trying to flex my nuts about this subject, and while trying to remain objective and open minded- sometimes I can't see where some people are coming from Thats Our Mr Weo !the gentleman is organized and literate. Certailnly an intellectual and well spoken. But i have never sorted out his motive. But i do enjoy reading his posts , and the dialogue that follows. Country , it took me awhile but i can dig what he brings to the table . The man is a mystery of sorts although amicable , but he is rarely if ever harsh or unbalanced . He's family . he's cut from the same cloth . Maybe the fellow : ) we call Weo prefers something other than a Payday candy bar or Country Sweet wings. i love the fellow. Keeps it fun he does ! This issue with Bill (evil hooded one ) Belli.. is one of those things you cant stew on. its wrong has been wrong . But it is , of course ,what it is. Bills should be smarter or shame on them. very competitive the NFL is i hear. Edited July 16, 2014 by 3rdand12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 You are suggesting that through allegedly 33 pages worth of text messages (font size not with standing) that if they discussed football, there is zero chance of a competitive advantage???? No. None. You (or anyone else) cannot even suggest one. This is a "leave the players alone" rule. What advantage could be gained by off season texts? Tell us. Thats Our Mr Weo ! the gentleman is organized and literate. Certailnly an intellectual and well spoken. But i have never sorted out his motive. But i do enjoy reading his posts , and the dialogue that follows. Country , it took me awhile but i can dig what he brings to the table . The man is a mystery of sorts although amicable , but he is rarely if ever harsh or unbalanced . He's family . he's cut from the same cloth . Maybe the fellow : ) we call Weo prefers something other than a Payday candy bar or Country Sweet wings. i love the fellow. Keeps it fun he does ! Thanks 3rd! But I do enjoy Payday.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountryCletus Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 I wouldn't say a flat "no chance of any advantage" but I'd guess practically speaking there's little to no measureable upside though. Really the biggest perk would've been if they could have kept him out of trouble.... Which obviously looks like it failed miserably. Well- let's leave that up to a jury of his peers, lol... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountryCletus Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 No. None. You (or anyone else) cannot even suggest one. This is a "leave the players alone" rule. What advantage could be gained by off season texts? Tell us. Thanks 3rd! But I do enjoy Payday.... Anything I could give you would be pure speculation... But I will gladly play this game, just for poops and giggles... Suppose, if you will, that uncle Bill sent AH some information regarding a tweak to their offensive playbook... Granted, not something that would be impossible to learn during the allowable time, but something for a bone head like AH that could definitely help... And while I Highly doubt that AH would be BB's mouth piece to the team, giving AH a heads up on anything regarding the game I feel is some sort if advantage... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubs Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 The only thing that matters is that it's a league rule, presumably there for a reason, and it's seems BB broke said rule. Every justification is just noise. The litany of excuses for behavior always amazes me. "It's not hurting anyone", "it's a stupid rule", "everyone else does it". None of those things have any relevance on whether or not BB is in fact breaking league rules again. If he in fact is, he should face sanctions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountryCletus Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Thats Our Mr Weo ! the gentleman is organized and literate. Certailnly an intellectual and well spoken. But i have never sorted out his motive. But i do enjoy reading his posts , and the dialogue that follows. Country , it took me awhile but i can dig what he brings to the table . The man is a mystery of sorts although amicable , but he is rarely if ever harsh or unbalanced . He's family . he's cut from the same cloth . Maybe the fellow : ) we call Weo prefers something other than a Payday candy bar or Country Sweet wings. i love the fellow. Keeps it fun he does ! This issue with Bill (evil hooded one ) Belli.. is one of those things you cant stew on. its wrong has been wrong . But it is , of course ,what it is. Bills should be smarter or shame on them. very competitive the NFL is i hear. I too respect Mr. WEO... Please make no mistake, I have not one for here at TBD, and respect almost everyone... Then there's Johnny Gold... The only thing that matters is that it's a league rule, presumably there for a reason, and it's seems BB broke said rule. Every justification is just noise. The litany of excuses for behavior always amazes me. "It's not hurting anyone", "it's a stupid rule", "everyone else does it". None of those things have any relevance on whether or not BB is in fact breaking league rules again. If he in fact is, he should face sanctions. Litany... 2 points from me... Lol.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 I too respect Mr. WEO... Please make no mistake, I have not one for here at TBD, and respect almost everyone... Then there's Johnny Gold... Litany... 2 points from me... Lol.... My point ws for the spectators and maybe Mr Weo. You are all about respect without question CC.Very good core bunch of STs hereabouts at TBD these days !! even Beer ball is mellow ish Johnny Gold. well thats a story for another day isnt' it ? : ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 The only thing that matters is that it's a league rule, presumably there for a reason, and it's seems BB broke said rule. Every justification is just noise. The litany of excuses for behavior always amazes me. "It's not hurting anyone", "it's a stupid rule", "everyone else does it". None of those things have any relevance on whether or not BB is in fact breaking league rules again. If he in fact is, he should face sanctions. I do not think anyone is disagreeing with the final point but instead saying the outrage is probably a bit much from some. If he broke the rule, punish him fairly and in line with others - which is ideally (in a sense of justice atleast) fair and in line with the nature of the violation. It just seems like a really minor violation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubs Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 I do not think anyone is disagreeing with the final point but instead saying the outrage is probably a bit much from some. If he broke the rule, punish him fairly and in line with others - which is ideally (in a sense of justice atleast) fair and in line with the nature of the violation. It just seems like a really minor violation. Gotcha. Agreed totally. Seems like a pretty benign offense. Maybe dock the pats a few first rounders! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Anything I could give you would be pure speculation... But I will gladly play this game, just for poops and giggles... Suppose, if you will, that uncle Bill sent AH some information regarding a tweak to their offensive playbook... Granted, not something that would be impossible to learn during the allowable time, but something for a bone head like AH that could definitely help... And while I Highly doubt that AH would be BB's mouth piece to the team, giving AH a heads up on anything regarding the game I feel is some sort if advantage... I think Weo is getting a bit too firm in his assertion, as I agree with you that there are ways it could potentially help a player - but in the grand scheme I couldn't see February texting really making any difference large enough to effect Sunday. If they were running a film study camp with workouts, maybe- but texting? It'd take a pretty impressive text! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffwagonscircled Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 (edited) The bolded is laughable. He was 16-16 as the Browns HC. 1994 - 11-5 Won a playoff game. 1995 - 5-11 Started 4-4, then the Browns announced they were moving and the players gave up. WRT New England, are you really surprised a coach didn't find immediate success his first year with the team? Year 2, with a 6th round back up QB, he won the Super Bowl. If you can't remember that year, the defense (BB's specialty), was the reason they won it all. Brady was basically a game manager. I understand thinking he's a cheat and not liking them because they've dominated us for years, but it is silly to just throw statements like that out there. Also, since you named Parcells as one of your all time greats in another post, just remember that BB's defensive gameplan in Super Bowl 25 was the reason they won that game against us. That's why it's in the Hall of Fame. Dude are you serious? he was in Cleveland for 5 years. His first 3 years he went 6-10, 7-9 and 7-9 again. In today's NFL you don't get a 4th year with those kind of records in your first 3 years Edited July 16, 2014 by Buffwagonscircled Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountryCletus Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 My point ws for the spectators and maybe Mr Weo. You are all about respect without question CC. Very good core bunch of STs hereabouts at TBD these days !! even Beer ball is mellow ish Johnny Gold. well thats a story for another day isnt' it ? : ) What does ST mean... I'm sorry, I'm still exploring this long list of beers I hijacked from OTW I think Weo is getting a bit too firm in his assertion, as I agree with you that there are ways it could potentially help a player - but in the grand scheme I couldn't see February texting really making any difference large enough to effect Sunday. If they were running a film study camp with workouts, maybe- but texting? It'd take a pretty impressive text! There were 33 pages, lol.... Regarding the first quoted comment- I agree that a violation should be dealt with, and that it should fit the violation.... But personally, repetitive offenses start to look like the start of a pattern... That is my opinion... Where violations start and end will never truly be known, but it certainly does Not look good for the hoodie.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffwagonscircled Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 How many Super Bowls has Parcells won without Belichick? He also had the best defensive player in history. Walsh had the greatest receiver in the history of the game and arguably the best qb ever. Coughlin is an interesting choice that has clearly come through in the clutch. Parcells turned around 3 other franchises and belicheat was a defensive assistant when he lost with the Patriots in the super bowl against the packers. On top of winning two super bowls with the Giants, he as I just stated turned around the patriots and took them to the super bowl. He then went to the Jets and turned them around from a 1-15 team to making the AFC championship game just two years later and then he takes over the Cowboys and turns them around and was able to make Quincy Carter a playoff QB. That's a damn good coach if you ask me. He has had a lot more success than Belicheat has Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountryCletus Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Parcells turned around 3 other franchises and belicheat was a defensive assistant when he lost with the Patriots in the super bowl against the packers. On top of winning two super bowls with the Giants, he as I just stated turned around the patriots and took them to the super bowl. He then went to the Jets and turned them around from a 1-15 team to making the AFC championship game just two years later and then he takes over the Cowboys and turns them around and was able to make Quincy Carter a playoff QB. That's a damn good coach if you ask me. He has had a lot more success than Belicheat has All shinanigans aside- I think Parcells gets the nod in a landslide... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Anything I could give you would be pure speculation... But I will gladly play this game, just for poops and giggles... Suppose, if you will, that uncle Bill sent AH some information regarding a tweak to their offensive playbook... Granted, not something that would be impossible to learn during the allowable time, but something for a bone head like AH that could definitely help... And while I Highly doubt that AH would be BB's mouth piece to the team, giving AH a heads up on anything regarding the game I feel is some sort if advantage... I don't know. Even if he gave AH the entire 2013 playbook one text at a time, I can't come up with any advantage over other teams. I think Weo is getting a bit too firm in his assertion, as I agree with you that there are ways it could potentially help a player - but in the grand scheme I couldn't see February texting really making any difference large enough to effect Sunday. If they were running a film study camp with workouts, maybe- but texting? It'd take a pretty impressive text! As you first, astutely, pointed out--this is a CBA agreement. That's it. It was not developed by the owners as a competitive equalizer rule. If the players didn't ask for this, the rule would not exist. This is not cheating by any definition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountryCletus Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 I don't know. Even if he gave AH the entire 2013 playbook one text at a time, I can't come up with any advantage over other teams. As you first, astutely, pointed out--this is a CBA agreement. That's it. It was not developed by the owners as a competitive equalizer rule. If the players didn't ask for this, the rule would not exist. This is not cheating by any definition. Sir.... Can we both agree that IF it's found that these men discussed the forbidden topic of football, then there was a violation of a league rule, and there should be consequences at some level??? For the sake of not repeating myself, I previously spoke on the difference of rule violations and cheating... Not sure if you saw it, heck, that might be what sparked this..frequently I find myself not communicating clearly, and for that I apologize... Just and No Saint and I found earlier, I believe we are finding middle ground.... Unless you disagree with me, then I win, lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 I don't know. Even if he gave AH the entire 2013 playbook one text at a time, I can't come up with any advantage over other teams. As you first, astutely, pointed out--this is a CBA agreement. That's it. It was not developed by the owners as a competitive equalizer rule. If the players didn't ask for this, the rule would not exist. This is not cheating by any definition. The advantage would be if you follow the rule to a further extreme. If BB was running camps and such - even if it was an nflpa player safety request to outlaw- he could potentially come out ahead of others following the rules, regardless of rules intent. That said, given the thorough nature of an nfl offseason program, I'm guessing texting in feb is incredibly low on the list of ways you could develop a player on the field. Like somewhere between signing them up for an account here and buying them the latest edition of madden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LB3 Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Dude are you serious? he was in Cleveland for 5 years. His first 3 years he went 6-10, 7-9 and 7-9 again. In today's NFL you don't get a 4th year with those kind of records in your first 3 years My mistake. I didn't look the Browns stats up myself just took a friends word for it. Apologies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Sir.... Can we both agree that IF it's found that these men discussed the forbidden topic of football, then there was a violation of a league rule, and there should be consequences at some level??? For the sake of not repeating myself, I previously spoke on the difference of rule violations and cheating... Not sure if you saw it, heck, that might be what sparked this..frequently I find myself not communicating clearly, and for that I apologize... Just and No Saint and I found earlier, I believe we are finding middle ground.... Unless you disagree with me, then I win, lol If he was texting about football and if the CBA says that texting constitutes an "individual meeting", then yeah, fine him. But those saying he's cheating (not you) are just mouthing off, which is their right on a fan chat sight. The advantage would be if you follow the rule to a further extreme. If BB was running camps and such - even if it was an nflpa player safety request to outlaw- he could potentially come out ahead of others following the rules, regardless of rules intent. That said, given the thorough nature of an nfl offseason program, I'm guessing texting in feb is incredibly low on the list of ways you could develop a player on the field. Like somewhere between signing them up for an account here and buying them the latest edition of madden. I think everyone ca agree that if BB was holding secret team meetings, that might afford some advantage, somehow. But that's not what's happening, despite a lot of posters here trying to fabricate outrage over this non-issue, just because it's Bellichick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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