thebandit27 Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 But never had to deal with a salary cap like Belichick has. Name one time that the salary cap has prevented Belichick from keeping or getting a player he wanted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 which is why the year Tom Brady tore his ACL Belichick coached freakin Matt Cassel to an 11-5 record You mean Matt Cassel who threw 27 tds, 7 ints, led the Chiefs to the playoffs and made a pro bowl? Also, the Pats had 5 less wins with Brady. Belichick wasn't crap before Brady. His winning % was lower than Jauron's. I think Joe Gibbs is the best because he won 3 SBs with 3 different QBs. That's amazing. and I think Jim Harbaugh is the best coach in the game right now. He makes QBs look good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Dog Named Kelso Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 While he had trouble in the playoffs I would contend Marty Schottenheimer is up there as one of the greatest coaches of all time. Three Different teams he made into contenders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 While he had trouble in the playoffs I would contend Marty Schottenheimer is up there as one of the greatest coaches of all time. Three Different teams he made into contenders. but much like QBs, when you talk about the greatest, playoffs is a major factor. Marty can't be on the list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bufffan031 Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 (edited) Belichick would be nothing without Brady. He was a failure in Cleveland and his first season in New England without Brady they went 5-11. They started the next season 0-2 with Bledsoe and looked like they were well on their way to another losing season before Brady took over. Many people like to bring up the question "What about when Brady got hurt and Cassell came in and they still went 11-5" well by that point the team was already so well established. They still had Welker and Moss and a system that had already been in place for about 7-8 years. They weren't just gonna completely collapse and go 3-13 after a 16-0 season that's just not gonna happen with any coach. If u take the 2008 season out of Belichick's resume, his record without Brady going back to his days in Cleveland is 41-57. Also, if he is such a genius then why did he have to cheat the way that he did. People also say that Bill Parcells may not have won a super bowl without him. Bill Parcells turned around every franchise he coached that includes the Cowboys without Belichick. Parcells took Quincy Carter to the playoffs in his first season there after they went 5-11 in each of the 3 seasons before he got there and Dave Campo the coach prior to him getting there couldn't do it. Belichick had Bernie Kosar who was far better than Carter his first two and a half seasons in Cleveland and still couldn't get to the playoffs with him. The genius was so smart he dumped Kosar which he got under a lot of heat for and till this day still says was his biggest regret. One other thing I like to point out is that if Belichick is such a genius why has everyone else around him with the exception of Parcells failed Charlie Weis-Failed in Notre Dame and was fired Romeo Crennel- Also failed in Cleveland as well as Kansas City Eric Mangini-Failed as Jets head coach as well as Cleveland's head coach Josh McDaniels- Failed as Broncos head coach Nick Saban- Though he has done well with Alabama (a college team) he failed as Dolphins head coach Jim Schwartz- Failed as Lions head coach Scott Pioli- Failed as GM of the Chiefs Mike Tannenbaum- Failed as GM of the Jets You look at Parcells who I think is the greatest ever and look how many people had success under him Tom Coughlin- Took the Jaguars to the playoffs a bunch of times and the championship game twice and has won two super bowls with the Giants (both of which he beat Belichick in) with a lesser QB Sean Payton- Has turned around the Saints and won a Super Bowl with them Tony Sparano- Was fired as Dolphins head coach but also turned them around from a 1-15 team to an 11-5 division winner the next season so he had some kind of success as a head coach. Belichick was a defensive coach on 2 teams prior to being the Patriots head coach with the Giants and again with Jets. Yet he has not been able to put together a solid defense in 14 years in New England. If he is such a genius why can he not put together a decent defense when he is known as a defensive mind. Bottom line, Bill Belichick is nothing more than a coordinator in this league without Brady. He got lucky on a 6th round pick that has made him loom great Edited January 15, 2014 by bufffan031 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pneumonic Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 Name one time that the salary cap has prevented Belichick from keeping or getting a player he wanted. Impossible to say for sure since Belichick's never had carte blanche when it comes to assembling a team sans salary cap restriction. However, 1 quick look at some of the truly suspect players that gave Belichick significant reps during his tenure in NE outta make it plainly obvious that said players were only on the roster because his roster was sal cap limited. One other thing I like to point out is that if Belichick is such a genius why has everyone else around him with the exception of Parcells failed Charlie Weis-Failed in Notre Dame and was fired Romeo Crennel- Also failed in Cleveland as well as Kansas City Eric Mangini-Failed as Jets head coach as well as Cleveland's head coach Josh McDaniels- Failed as Broncos head coach Nick Saban- Though he has done well with Alabama (a college team) he failed as Dolphins head coach Jim Schwartz- Failed as Lions head coach Scott Pioli- Failed as GM of the Chiefs Mike Tannenbaum- Failed as GM of the Jets So much wrong with all of what you say but let's focus on just the above quoted points you make. If all of Belichick's guys suck as you say then doesn't that make what Belichick accomplished (with such lousy people) all the more impressive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bufffan031 Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 Impossible to say for sure since Belichick's never had carte blanche when it comes to assembling a team sans salary cap restriction. However, 1 quick look at some of the truly suspect players that gave Belichick significant reps during his tenure in NE outta make it plainly obvious that said players were only on the roster because his roster was sal cap limited. So much wrong with all of what you say but let's focus on just the above quoted points you make. If all of Belichick's guys suck as you say then doesn't that make what Belichick accomplished (with such lousy people) all the more impressive? Everything I stated is a fact how can it be wrong? He has a 41-57 record without Brady minus the 2008 season. It is what it is. The assistants that he had that failed should be able to learn something from him on how to coach if he is so good. People have learned from Parcells Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PO'14 Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 Belichick would be nothing without Brady. He was a failure in Cleveland and his first season in New England without Brady they went 5-11. They started the next season 0-2 with Bledsoe and looked like they were well on their way to another losing season before Brady took over. Many people like to bring up the question "What about when Brady got hurt and Cassell came in and they still went 11-5" well by that point the team was already so well established. They still had Welker and Moss and a system that had already been in place for about 7-8 years. They weren't just gonna completely collapse and go 3-13 after a 16-0 season that's just not gonna happen with any coach. If u take the 2008 season out of Belichick's resume, his record without Brady going back to his days in Cleveland is 41-57. Also, if he is such a genius then why did he have to cheat the way that he did. People also say that Bill Parcells may not have won a super bowl without him. Bill Parcells turned around every franchise he coached that includes the Cowboys without Belichick. Parcells took Quincy Carter to the playoffs in his first season there after they went 5-11 in each of the 3 seasons before he got there and Dave Campo the coach prior to him getting there couldn't do it. Belichick had Bernie Kosar who was far better than Carter his first two and a half seasons in Cleveland and still couldn't get to the playoffs with him. The genius was so smart he dumped Kosar which he got under a lot of heat for and till this day still says was his biggest regret. One other thing I like to point out is that if Belichick is such a genius why has everyone else around him with the exception of Parcells failed Charlie Weis-Failed in Notre Dame and was fired Romeo Crennel- Also failed in Cleveland as well as Kansas City Eric Mangini-Failed as Jets head coach as well as Cleveland's head coach Josh McDaniels- Failed as Broncos head coach Nick Saban- Though he has done well with Alabama (a college team) he failed as Dolphins head coach Jim Schwartz- Failed as Lions head coach Scott Pioli- Failed as GM of the Chiefs Mike Tannenbaum- Failed as GM of the Jets You look at Parcells who I think is the greatest ever and look how many people had success under him Tom Coughlin- Took the Jaguars to the playoffs a bunch of times and the championship game twice and has won two super bowls with the Giants (both of which he beat Belichick in) with a lesser QB Sean Payton- Has turned around the Saints and won a Super Bowl with them Tony Sparano- Was fired as Dolphins head coach but also turned them around from a 1-15 team to an 11-5 division winner the next season so he had some kind of success as a head coach. Belichick was a defensive coach on 2 teams prior to being the Patriots head coach with the Giants and again with Jets. Yet he has not been able to put together a solid defense in 14 years in New England. If he is such a genius why can he not put together a decent defense when he is known as a defensive mind. Bottom line, Bill Belichick is nothing more than a coordinator in this league without Brady. He got lucky on a 6th round pick that has made him loom great Bottom line for me...We shall see when Brady retires! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 (edited) I never realized how there really is no proverbial "Michael Jordan of Coaching" in the NFL. Everybody who could lay claim to the title has something you can throw out as a disqualifier. Bellichick - Hard to argue with this guy, but he's always got Spygate looming over his SBs; and no SBs since. Andy Reid - Consistent winner, but he never got a SB which to me is a greater measuring stick for a coach than a QB. Bill Cowher - Finally got his SB but Tomlin took that team to a SB win just a few years later. Jimmy Johnson - Turned a dumpster fire into a dynasty, but a college reject won the SB with that same team. Mike Holmgren - Took 2 teams to the SB, won 1, but his teams never really dominated except GB w/ Favre. Joe Gibbs - Pretty solid SB winning coach. Came out of retirment and eeked in to the playoffs. Tony Dungy - Consistent winner who couldn't get a SB team in Tampa over the hump and inherited Manning in Indy. Tom Coughlin - Coached some strong teams in Jax and has 2 SB wins over Bellyache, but his teams are streaky and inconsistent. Bill Walsh - Actually, I can't think of a big knock on the guy other than I suppose the bulk of his work occurred before the deadline. Marv - Obviously the lack of a SB win. I'm sure I'm leaving several off and maybe included one or two that really don't belong. Just reflecting on how there's a knock on virtually everyone in the discussion. I can't really think of a good criticism for Gibbs or Walsh, but they're a bit before my time and Dick Vermiel might have an argument taking STL to the SB and turning KC around. Edited January 15, 2014 by Rob's House Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bufffan031 Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 Bottom line for me...We shall see when Brady retires! Him and Brady are gonna retire together so no one will ever know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pneumonic Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 (edited) Everything I stated is a fact how can it be wrong? He has a 41-57 record without Brady minus the 2008 season. It is what it is. The assistants that he had that failed should be able to learn something from him on how to coach if he is so good. People have learned from Parcells Try this on for "it is what it is" In the 14 years that Belichick has been the HC of the Pats his team has been in the AFC championship game 8 times, he has been to the super bowl 5 times and he's won the super bowl 3 times. This all done in an era of football that is designed to prevent such complete and total domination. Now think about this for a sec! If you are blind to this and, instead to choose to bring up other arguments in order to make your point then, my guess is you have a hate so strong for Belichick that nothing he can do will ever change your opinion on him. Edited January 16, 2014 by Pneumonic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bufffan031 Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Try this on for "it is what it is" In the 14 years that Belichick has been the HC of the Pats his team has been in the AFC championship game 8 times, he has been to the super bowl 5 times and he's won the super bowl 3 times. This all done in an era of football that is designed to prevent such complete and total domination. Now think about this for a sec! If you are blind to this and, instead to choose to bring up other arguments in order to make your point then, my guess is you have a hate so strong for Belichick that nothing he can do will ever change your opinion on him. And if his QB wasn't brady he wouldn't have most of this stuff. This year they went 12-4. Brady has had the worst talent he has probably ever had to work with and still had a good season. If he had Cassel this year like he had in 2008 when cassel still had Moss and Welker to work with they probably would have missed the playoffs or just barely snuck in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOUSE Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 EVERY HEAD COACH WITH A GREAT QB is a genius Its a fact Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pneumonic Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 And if his QB wasn't brady he wouldn't have most of this stuff. This year they went 12-4. Brady has had the worst talent he has probably ever had to work with and still had a good season. If he had Cassel this year like he had in 2008 when cassel still had Moss and Welker to work with they probably would have missed the playoffs or just barely snuck in So, what? You are arguing on the strength of a couple of hypothetical situations! I thought you were a "it is what it is" kinda guy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 I think you have to go with Canton inductees in the past 25 years. It is, after all, the benchmark. Shula, Marv, Noll, Gibbs, Gilman, Walsh, Landry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Peyton Manning picks Belichick: http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/peyton-manning-says-bill-belichick-down-greatest-nfl-215603584--nfl.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kemp Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 (edited) Vince Lombardi is the greatest of all-time. He turned an awful Packers team into Champions without upgrading the roster but by motivating the guys he had into winners. Lombardi had a great roster. Vince Lombardi is the greatest of all-time. He turned an awful Packers team into Champions without upgrading the roster but by motivating the guys he had into winners. An awful team littered with hall of farmers. Great coach, though, but to me Elichick has accomplished a string of winning seasons that will never be duplicated. He also brought Parcells his two Super Bowls before the Pats. P arcells never won without Be llichick. Bellichick won 3 times without P arcells. Link? He was a failure with Cleveland and didn't do schit until he had a QB that he felt so well about that he was drafted in the 6th round. Another who forgot what he did to the Bills in the Super Bowl and in another season, as well. Edited January 16, 2014 by Kemp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T master Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 (edited) Take away Tom Brady. What's left? How was he in Cleveland? Well the year Brady did go down they plugged in Cassel & he did it in that scheme with that coach & since he left he has done nothing so i would say to your question you still have it all because he seems to make it work no matter who goes down & has done it for over the last 10 years !! Plus if you are comparing apples to apples what has Cleveland done since he left ? Edited January 16, 2014 by T master Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Cowlings Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 BB will be tainted by spy gate (or should be). In the last 25 yrs (since 1989), I think unfortunately jimmy Johnson has to get some consideration. as does marv levy and bill cowher. Marv Levy? Seriously? He got out coached in 4 Super Bowls and you only mention JJ? What about Purcells and Gibbs? Marv in Canton is really a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Adams Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 11 seasons with 10 wins. Sure he has Brady but he's rotated a lot of players through all the other positions and keeps winning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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