artmalibu Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 well, i dont think they WANT to lose, but i think plenty of coaches make the wrong choices on a regular basis. even the good ones. this one just stands out as it seems like it shouldve been rather simple to get right and no one has presented a reason why we did get it right beyond "but what if rogers making the team made everyone else stop working or smoke pot and stuff." otherwise, its simply "maybe he was worse than we knew" or "he wouldnt have hogans 6 special teams tackles" and to your earlier point that none of us saw enough of him - several of us saw a lot of him at tennessee - thats why we are frustrated. it seems a recurring theme is the ones that saw the least are saying no one knows what kind of talent he has. Evaluating him around college talent doesn't count!! Vince Young and many others looked great in college too. So what did he do in the BILLS camp to earn a spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drnykterstein Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 What a 1 catch highlight reel? What else do you got? lol And yea TJ beat him out. Not to mention Rogers 14 receptions Graham 23. You guys must think the coaches want to loose. TJ Graham has 16 games played, Da'Rick had 5 games played. But please where is TJ Grahams even one highlight reel catch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 It cool that we all have different opinions!!! At some point I give the coaches the benefit of the doubt. I hardly think that 14 receptions in enough to create an "I told you so". The coaches had him in camp and didnt think he was the guy for the team, that doesn't mean he will never make a good receiver. Most 4th and 5th receivers make the team for special teams work, and we didnt see him at all on special teams at all. I dont think any of us here saw he enough to make the call if it was a good cut or not. Time will tell if he was the fish the got away. That does not seem to be a problem for the bills, because they have not always brought in good talent. If he was cut by the Bills and then signed by another team, earned a starting position, made some big contributions right away it would be different. Well...I certainly agree there are differing opinions on this subject... Rogers really only played one full season as a starting WR in College...He was undrafted and raw...The idea that he could go anywhere and earn a starting spot as a rookie is well beyond any possible expectation...So I'm not sure that can be considered at this time...It's an impossibility... I'll admit that many of us here are making projections concerning Rogers...No question about it...It's easy to say only 14 receptions is not enough evidence to prove anything...And no question at face value that's true...But it's also true that Rogers has only been on the field for 5 games...And in those 5 games he has 15 receptions for 238 yards and 2 TD's... So...Lets just hypothetically say Rogers plays 16 games with the same production he had in the first 5...His totals for 16 games would be somewhere around 48 receptions, 760 yards, and 6 TD's...Now granted...He's got Andrew Luck throwing him the ball and God knows the Bills don't have that kind of talent at QB...So...Let's take those numbers and cut them in half...That's 24 receptions, 380 yards, and 3 TD's...Those stats are actually ever so slightly better than TJ Graham had as our #3 WR this past year...So...Rogers projected over 16 games, and cut in half, could have been the Bills 3rd best WR in 2013...He has that kind of talent...He's already proved that much... So is it not safe to say there is reason for concern over this? The Bills are VERY likely to use yet another premium Draft pick at WR in 2014, and our HC admitted he was not concerned about long range potential whatsoever when deciding to cut Rogers...To me that's alarming...It certainly is not something that will make or break Marrone...But it's looking like keeping Rogers could have made it a heck of a lot easier on him, and the team going forward...If we have Rogers now maybe the Bills are looking O-Line or LB with that #9 overall instead of WR...These are team building decisions that can go well beyond the initial decision...And I'm not saying it's the same situation at all, but believe me when I tell you there were a hell of a lot of folks right here on this board that said Marshawn Lynch would never amount to anything once we dealt him to Seattle...I look at things a bit differently...You're trying to eliminate needs, not create them or break even...I just think Marrone made a mistake on this one...And furthermore I blame Whaley for not leaning on him a bit to assure Rogers got at least a year to show if he can develop... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Why must this be some huge philosophical debate. The team had to make cuts and take the best WRs for their team. Da'Rick didn't make da'cut. He was beat out by other UDFAs. I don't know that this has really been established. All we know is that he was cut and other guys weren't. That doesn't necessarily mean he was beaten out. It could simply mean that the coach wanted to make a statement. If in fact he was cut because of performance rather than behavioral reasons, I'd say that's a scathing indictment of the FO. What a 1 catch highlight reel? What else do you got? lol And yea TJ beat him out. Not to mention Rogers 14 receptions Graham 23. You guys must think the coaches want to loose. Are we conveniently excluding his 100 yd TD game during the season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artmalibu Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 As a matter of fact he did. There was an article or two about that immediately after the draft. It's like Burfict - No one wanted to have to explain why they burned a draft pick on the guy with character concerns, but once they could bring him in w/o consequence a lot of teams were interested. And he picked the Bills over other teams? Thought no one want to come to Buffalo. Randy Moss, Chris Carter and Dez Bryant all had character concerns and were drafted to name a few. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Evaluating him around college talent doesn't count!! Vince Young and many others looked great in college too. So what did he do in the BILLS camp to earn a spot. So why even draft? Might as well just pick players out of a hat. NFL GMs should have the benefit of this insight so they can stop wasting resources on the draft and just target UDFAs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artmalibu Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 So why even draft? Might as well just pick players out of a hat. NFL GMs should have the benefit of this insight so they can stop wasting resources on the draft and just target UDFAs. To make the claim based on watching him around college players means that he should have made the Bills is crazy. The coaches watched him around NFL players and decided that they would pass on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 well, i dont think they WANT to lose, but i think plenty of coaches make the wrong choices on a regular basis. even the good ones. this one just stands out as it seems like it shouldve been rather simple to get right and no one has presented a reason why we did get it right beyond "but what if rogers making the team made everyone else stop working or smoke pot and stuff." otherwise, its simply "maybe he was worse than we knew" or "he wouldnt have hogans 6 special teams tackles" and to your earlier point that none of us saw enough of him - several of us saw a lot of him at tennessee - thats why we are frustrated. it seems a recurring theme is the ones that saw the least are saying no one knows what kind of talent he has. If he was as good in camp and pre-season as he was as a sophomore at Tennessee, he would have made the team. Too many drops, too many incorrect routes, too many wrong answers. He didn't perform well enough. Please don't confuse his few spectacular moments with consistent play in camp. EVERY other receiver had just as many circus catches at one time or another. And for as much as everyone wants to make this an issue about Hogan, which is simply ignorant btw, Hogan didn't seem to drop a single pass all camp, regardless of which QB was throwing to him. He consistently found soft spots in the zone to exploit. It was readily apparent that Rogers needed work on that aspect. But run a go route and out-muscle a DB? Well, Rogers can do that. Unfortunately, the position is a bit more nuanced. And he seemed to RESENT having to play special teams. Especially gunner on the punt team. His reps were greatly reduced as a result, too. Letting him go was about as an informed a decision to release a player as their ever was. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 (edited) To make the claim based on watching him around college players means that he should have made the Bills is crazy. The coaches watched him around NFL players and decided that they would pass on him. Many of those college players are playing on Sunday. It was the SEC. Our own ron brooks was a nickel corner in that conference, for perspective on the caliber of players he went against. Rogers led that conference in receiving as a sophomore. And to the other point, yes 14 other teams allegedly tried to sign him after the draft. Last up, no VY isn't a hall of famer but id take a rookie Vince young over a 3rd year player that's never made a team and would be available in November if I changed my mind, wouldn't you? Edited January 10, 2014 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 I don't know that this has really been established. All we know is that he was cut and other guys weren't. That doesn't necessarily mean he was beaten out. It could simply mean that the coach wanted to make a statement. If in fact he was cut because of performance rather than behavioral reasons, I'd say that's a scathing indictment of the FO. Established: "Marrone on roster cuts, Da'Rick Rogers: "He has some skill ... We feel that we have better players on the roster than those released"" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Established: "Marrone on roster cuts, Da'Rick Rogers: "He has some skill ... We feel that we have better players on the roster than those released"" Okay, then he was either deflecting, lying, or he's an idiot. That's now established. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 (edited) Okay, then he was either deflecting, lying, or he's an idiot. That's now established. Based on every rep by every receiver in camp and preseason action, he was telling the truth. He was outplayed and outperformed at a time when he could least afford to be outplayed and outperformed. His attitude vis a vis playing special teams didn't help him either. GO BILLS!!! Edited January 10, 2014 by K-9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Based on every rep by every receiver in camp and preseason action, he was telling the truth. He was outplayed and outperformed at a time when he could least afford to be outplayed and outperformed. His attitude vis a vis playing special teams didn't help him either. GO BILLS!!! I can understand if it was based on attitude. That's why I haven't taken a hard stand on this, because I can imagine scenarios where his behavior would have warranted his dismissal. If it were simply that he wasn't the most game ready option right now I have a tough time seeing how they justify that position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubs Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 (edited) If he was as good in camp and pre-season as he was as a sophomore at Tennessee, he would have made the team. Too many drops, too many incorrect routes, too many wrong answers. He didn't perform well enough. Please don't confuse his few spectacular moments with consistent play in camp. EVERY other receiver had just as many circus catches at one time or another. And for as much as everyone wants to make this an issue about Hogan, which is simply ignorant btw, Hogan didn't seem to drop a single pass all camp, regardless of which QB was throwing to him. He consistently found soft spots in the zone to exploit. It was readily apparent that Rogers needed work on that aspect. But run a go route and out-muscle a DB? Well, Rogers can do that. Unfortunately, the position is a bit more nuanced. And he seemed to RESENT having to play special teams. Especially gunner on the punt team. His reps were greatly reduced as a result, too. Letting him go was about as an informed a decision to release a player as their ever was. GO BILLS!!! Informed may not be the right word. There was reasoning behind the decision I'm sure. I would say the reasoning was flawed, big time. Also, training camp heroes don't necessarily make good nfl players. Hogan proved that pretty quickly. Edited January 10, 2014 by dubs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 I don't know Dibs... It surprises me a bit that, with everything this organization has been through over these years, there are some folks who are quick to assume Rogers was some sort of ticking time-bomb while completely ignoring the possibility that our HC simply made a poor decision... .... Heh...from the responses I got(and re-reading my post) it is obvious that I didn't make my point very clearly. I think I got distracted over the concept of a player taking a dump on the GMs desk.....and what a great news story it would make . I for one am totally open to the concept that the Bills made a mistake in regards to DR. The firing of Hiliard might even have some relation to the DR situation.....who knows? The thing is.....nobody does know. So to make up ones mind with incomplete data and assume(and believe with such conviction) that the blame belongs on the shoulders of the Bills in this situation(which so many people in this thread have done) is irrational. In my previous post I was attempting to show a list of negative actions, reducing in severity, that a player could do which might get people who have previously assumed blame on the Bills to perhaps realize that the Bills might have been justified in their actions. My list wasn't very good(too many actions were too severe).....but the concept still stands. If there is a possible situation that may have occurred which one would think it a reasonable action to drop DR......whether that be not turning up to meetings, not learning the plays, or taking a dump on the GMs desk.....then as one has no idea if DR did or didn't commit an offense to that level.....one cannot assume blame on the Bills. I have no problems with people acting from emotion and placing blame on the Bills in this situation. 14 years of mistakes pretty much earns them that sort of response. I do however have a problem when people try to rationalize their dogmatic emotional responses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 omg still? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prickly Pete Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 What do the Da'Rick supporters want? You want Marrone to resign? Whaley to apologize to Rogers? You want a public statement assuming complete responsibility for cutting a player that has gone on to catch a few passes from Andrew Luck? You want the GM to state that "Because of the Da'Rick situation, were are re-evaluating all aspects of the way we evaluate talent"? What do you want? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Informed may not be the right word. There was reasoning behind the decision I'm sure. I would say the reasoning was flawed, big time. Also, training camp heroes don't necessarily make good nfl players. Hogan proved that pretty quickly. Hogan wasn't a training camp hero. He was just a very consistent player. UDFAs with checkered pasts, inconsistent play, difificulty grasping the offense, and questionable attitudes don't necessarily make good NFL players, either. It wasn't a good fit. Nothing flawed in that line of thinking at all. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 What do the Da'Rick supporters want? You want Marrone to resign? Whaley to apologize to Rogers? You want a public statement assuming complete responsibility for cutting a player that has gone on to catch a few passes from Andrew Luck? You want the GM to state that "Because of the Da'Rick situation, were are re-evaluating all aspects of the way we evaluate talent"? What do you want? Flip the question. What do you want? and why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 (edited) Informed may not be the right word. There was reasoning behind the decision I'm sure. I would say the reasoning was flawed, big time. Also, training camp heroes don't necessarily make good nfl players. Hogan proved that pretty quickly. Training camp for rookies is risk reward balancing act. really who and why does any one care about this UDFA he has gotten plenty of attention from Bills detractors. Is this Fox News ? I dont care about Hogan and i dont care about weed head superstar . I do care about SJ and Woods and Goodwin. i dont want to talk about Graham : ( but get real folks. Put it down . Edited January 10, 2014 by 3rdand12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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