Red Flags

[billsfan714]

Man the Bills got exposed today. Inept play and unimaginative, gutless coaching. This game raised more red flags than a tailgate in Tuscaloosa. Some things Im concerned about:

 

1. EJ was Blaine Gabbert brutal today, this against a Steeler team that is not great against the pass. He combined the inaccuracy of JP and the cant wait to check it down of Edwards. Footwork, reading a defense, touch, lack of the long ball, this wasnt progressing and growing. This was turning a turnover by Byrd into a FG and a garbage time TD. I dont know if you take a QB next year early, its a good topic to debate though. With the rookie salary cap, EJ is probably making about the same as Fitz is making per year as a backup in Tennessee so if you took another one its not like you're tied by the salary cap. If you can defend drafting RBs that are the best available player on your board when you have good talent there already, how can you not do the same for a QB? Would it hurt EJs confidence or does every position benefit from competition? Oh and to the people saying Wilson didnt do much if his first 6 or so games last year, guess what, now you get to compare Wilson's progression in the second half of last season to EJs. Hes going to have to pick it up, big time.

 

2. And now on to Hackett, son of Hackett. Color me unimpressed by the resume and results. 2003-4 offensive/coordinators assistant coach at Stanford. 2006-09 offensive quality control coach Bucs-Bills, what exactly does that guy do, get the Krispy Kremes and scout the other team? 2010-12, Qb and TE coach and offensive coordinator of the mighty orange men of the big least. But dont you know we scored at least 20 points in X amount of games? Interesting but if I count defensive touchdowns(which Nate has nothing to do with), the Jets giving up near all-time record penalty yards and the Panthers giving up a stupid pass interference penalty on a pass that was never going to be completed and subsequent TD , we wouldnt even be talking about this meaningless stat. One thing we dont talk about his how many teams havent scored 30 points---ONCE. How many teams havent had a 300 yard passer ONCE in 10 games in a pass happy league. In fact we have thrown for more than 250 yards---ONE time. And Nate had done this with one of the best 1-2-3 runningback stables in the league, rbs that can catch the ball, too. Chan did more with Stevie and the street FAs and got CJ to have a monster year. Chans screens and slants are a distant memory. If he cant figure out how to attack a 3-4 then maybe he should look for another line of work.

 

3. TJ Graham is a turd. Lets admit a mistake and move on, it happens. Goodwin has shown more in a short time with backup QBs than Graham has. Goodwin is the small fast guy, what we dont have is big and fast. Easley has been pretty good on STs which is fine for a 5th-6th wr. We made a mistake trading up for this never will be, Graham. His speed doesnt seem to hit the field and he plays small with no physicality. This guy produces street FA numbers, thats a fact.

 

4 Im not sure what decent(not great) games will prove against the likes of Jacksonville, Tampa and a Miami squad in turmoil. What does it say, that we not that bad? We're not worst in the league bad? Like we should wear that as a badge of honor? I dont think so. That's not progess its groundhog day status quo.

 

5. Pettine is better than Wanny but that like saying your kid is smarter than the dumbest kid in the class. We let a bad rushing team gouge us pretty good and for having a ton of high draft choices in the secondary and a lot invested in our front 4 we are among the worst in the league against the pass. Rex does more with less than Pettine. Pettine is better than Wanny but he sure as **** isnt as good as Rex.

 

6. Lasty if I'm Marrone, I realize I have a 3 season window. If people on my staff are not cutting it, then new people should be brought in. I wouldnt be loyal for loyalty sake, this the big leagues, you either produce or you dont, but Im not going down because of a subordinate's incompetance. The ST coach is in over his head, as I mentioned Hackett is no offensive genius. If he has 3 years, thats 48 games and 10 games have come and gone and we are 3-7. that leaves 38 games. Oh and Doug, if that 3rd year starts bad, you will quickly lose the team and the fans. The lame duck label will be on you faster than you think.

 

Im so done with pain and patience, Im done with excuses. This team today was pretty healthy compared to other teams and laid an absolute dud. Lead, follow or get out of the way.

Edited November 11, 2013 by billsfan714

[KDIGGZ]

Anyone that has been paying attention this season knew all of this prior to the game. Today just proved it to the people that used us not being healthy as an excuse. This team peaked at the beginning of the season and is getting worse instead of getting better. If it was the opposite I probably wouldn't be so upset.

 

However I disagree about the defense. While I agree that we let them run the ball right up the middle on us, the defense still turned in a good enough effort to win this game. Most of the points were due to field position from turnovers and special teams. I think the defense is the only unit that has gotten better since the start of the season and hopefully they continue to get better. While Pettine isn't as good of a defensive coach as Rex, I think he is still in the upper echelon in the league.

 

A young team should strive to be better the next game than they were the previous game but I don't see that from this team. We didn't need to make the playoffs this year for it to be a success, we just needed to be able to get better from week to week. We are going in the wrong direction! Changes need to be made. Marrone needs to figure it out or he is going to lose the locker room. The veterans have been there done that so let's see how this team responds

[Prickly Pete]

The defense is good enough to win with an offense that can score a bit. I think "Unanswered Points" is a pretty important statistic. This defense can generally keep it together, but if an offense can't respond after a score on the defense, the air will leak from most defenses. What was it today, 20 unanswered points?

Edited November 11, 2013 by Marauder'sMicro

[12Kachy]

This is a pretty good post. I don't agree with RB statement as both have been injured and I don't think spiller is still 100%. I hate to say it but I would have rather seen Lewis out there instead of manual. The up tempo offense sucks and they need to hand it to spiller more.

[thewildrabbit]

My take is Hacket isn't all that bad, and either is EJ.

 

The one thing Hackett has't figured out though is how to get his offense to play well against those heavy blitzing 3-4 teams, Jets, Saints and now Steelers....with the Jets next week.

 

He has a roster with only raw rookie QB's and they are not accomplished at reading defenses, setting line protections, calling audibles, making hot reads. So Hackett needs to figure out how to beat those teams when they stack the box to stop the run and force the QB to beat them. Then they blitz the heck outta the QB if he is ineffective against the blitz.

 

Now on the bright side. Those defenses befuddle even some of the top QB's in the league so this OC needs to starting thinking of building a power run game to make yards even when the box is stacked against them. Gailey did it by utilizing the spread formation. Hackett seems so concerned with protecting his QB's by keeping a TE- FB in to block when he should be doing 4-5 wides to spread that defense out so they can't stack the box.

[8-8 Forever?]

My take is Hacket isn't all that bad, and either is EJ.

 

The one thing Hackett has't figured out though is how to get his offense to play well against those heavy blitzing 3-4 teams, Jets, Saints and now Steelers....with the Jets next week.

 

He has a roster with only raw rookie QB's and they are not accomplished at reading defenses, setting line protections, calling audibles, making hot reads. So Hackett needs to figure out how to beat those teams when they stack the box to stop the run and force the QB to beat them. Then they blitz the heck outta the QB if he is ineffective against the blitz.

 

Now on the bright side. Those defenses befuddle even some of the top QB's in the league so this OC needs to starting thinking of building a power run game to make yards even when the box is stacked against them. Gailey did it by utilizing the spread formation. Hackett seems so concerned with protecting his QB's by keeping a TE- FB in to block when he should be doing 4-5 wides to spread that defense out so they can't stack the box.

they'll win just enough to avoid a real impact player in the draft, as always

[KeisterHollow]

Man the Bills got exposed today. Inept play and unimaginative, gutless coaching. This game raised more red flags than a tailgate in Tuscaloosa. Some things Im concerned about:

 

1. EJ was Blaine Gabbert brutal today, this against a Steeler team that is not great against the pass. He combined the inaccuracy of JP and the cant wait to check it down of Edwards. Footwork, reading a defense, touch, lack of the long ball, this wasnt progressing and growing. This was turning a turnover by Byrd into a FG and a garbage time TD. I dont know if you take a QB next year early, its a good topic to debate though. With the rookie salary cap, EJ is probably making about the same as Fitz is making per year as a backup in Tennessee so if you took another one its not like you're tied by the salary cap. If you can defend drafting RBs that are the best available player on your board when you have good talent there already, how can you not do the same for a QB? Would it hurt EJs confidence or does every position benefit from competition? Oh and to the people saying Wilson didnt do much if his first 6 or so games last year, guess what, now you get to compare Wilson's progression in the second half of last season to EJs. Hes going to have to pick it up, big time.

 

2. And now on to Hackett, son of Hackett. Color me unimpressed by the resume and results. 2003-4 offensive/coordinators assistant coach at Stanford. 2006-09 offensive quality control coach Bucs-Bills, what exactly does that guy do, get the Krispy Kremes and scout the other team? 2010-12, Qb and TE coach and offensive coordinator of the mighty orange men of the big least. But dont you know we scored at least 20 points in X amount of games? Interesting but if I count defensive touchdowns(which Nate has nothing to do with), the Jets giving up near all-time record penalty yards and the Panthers giving up a stupid pass interference penalty on a pass that was never going to be completed and subsequent TD , we wouldnt even be talking about this meaningless stat. One thing we dont talk about his how many teams havent scored 30 points---ONCE. How many teams havent had a 300 yard passer ONCE in 10 games in a pass happy league. In fact we have thrown for more than 250 yards---ONE time. And Nate had done this with one of the best 1-2-3 runningback stables in the league, rbs that can catch the ball, too. Chan did more with Stevie and the street FAs and got CJ to have a monster year. Chans screens and slants are a distant memory. If he cant figure out how to attack a 3-4 then maybe he should look for another line of work.

 

3. TJ Graham is a turd. Lets admit a mistake and move on, it happens. Goodwin has shown more in a short time with backup QBs than Graham has. Goodwin is the small fast guy, what we dont have is big and fast. Easley has been pretty good on STs which is fine for a 5th-6th wr. We made a mistake trading up for this never will be, Graham. His speed doesnt seem to hit the field and he plays small with no physicality. This guy produces street FA numbers, thats a fact.

 

4 Im not sure what decent(not great) games will prove against the likes of Jacksonville, Tampa and a Miami squad in turmoil. What does it say, that we not that bad? We're not worst in the league bad? Like we should wear that as a badge of honor? I dont think so. That's not progess its groundhog day status quo.

 

5. Pettine is better than Wanny but that like saying your kid is smarter than the dumbest kid in the class. We let a bad rushing team gouge us pretty good and for having a ton of high draft choices in the secondary and a lot invested in our front 4 we are among the worst in the league against the pass. Rex does more with less than Pettine. Pettine is better than Wanny but he sure as **** isnt as good as Rex.

 

6. Lasty if I'm Marrone, I realize I have a 3 season window. If people on my staff are not cutting it, then new people should be brought in. I wouldnt be loyal for loyalty sake, this the big leagues, you either produce or you dont, but Im not going down because of a subordinate's incompetance. The ST coach is in over his head, as I mentioned Hackett is no offensive genius. If he has 3 years, thats 48 games and 10 games have come and gone and we are 3-7. that leaves 38 games. Oh and Doug, if that 3rd year starts bad, you will quickly lose the team and the fans. The lame duck label will be on you faster than you think.

 

Im so done with pain and patience, Im done with excuses. This team today was pretty healthy compared to other teams and laid an absolute dud. Lead, follow or get out of the way.

Well Said!!! I've thought many of the same things about Hackett and the QB position - if you can rationalize drafting Spiller when you've got Jackson and Lynch, you darn sure better be able to draft a potentially great QB when you don't even have one good one, yet! That's my worst fear - that we pass on a really elite QB talent next year, only to have Manuel remain average, at best.

[JohnnyBuffalo]

This game did bring more questions than answers. What happened to the run game? I feel that the coaches were relying on the fact that they would be able to run the ball all overt he Steelers and when that didn't happen they were befuddled. Which is a major problem, but why could they not run the ball? I like the comment that it is the 3-4 d that causes the issues....let's hope they figure it out and bury the Jets. Nothing left this year but to try and spoil the Jets and Pats season if at all possible.

 

Ugh!

[fbzh2]

they'll win just enough to avoid a real impact player in the draft, as always

 

My thoughts exactly.

[wnysteel]

everyone said (going into Sunday) that we were better than our 3-6 record indicated. as i've said in the past (and many others), more often than not, you are as good as your record. Sunday proved it.

[xsoldier54]

This team was horrible yesterday, no doubt about it. I am as disgusted and discouraged as the next guy. I agree with some of what the OP said, particularly with regard to Graham. I am however willing to withhold judgement on the coaching staff until after the season. Not liking what I saw yesterday for sure. They were flat, particularly on offense, but I don't believe they are as bad as they looked yesterday. I've been watching football a long time and every team has games like yesterday every single season. Even in the 4 Super Bowl years, they played stinkers like yesterday. You have to look at the whole body of work and so far I have seen enough good things to stay encouraged. I will withhold judgement on EJ, Pettine and Hacket and Marrone until after the season.

[KD in CA]

5. Pettine is better than Wanny but that like saying your kid is smarter than the dumbest kid in the class. We let a bad rushing team gouge us pretty good and for having a ton of high draft choices in the secondary and a lot invested in our front 4 we are among the worst in the league against the pass. Rex does more with less than Pettine. Pettine is better than Wanny but he sure as **** isnt as good as Rex.

So because Pettite isn't as 'good' as the best defensive coach in the NFL, he sucks? Good grief. The defense has been far better than anything we've seen in recent years. First, Pittsburgh is not a 'bad team'. They are a decent, veteran team that had a bad start to the year. People need to understand the difference. Second, they did not gouge the Bills. The D was on the field for >35 minutes because the offense scored 3 points until garbage time and punted 9 times, and yet the D only allowed 300 total yards in the game. Pittsburgh's primary ball carrier averaged 2.6 ypc yesterday. What more do you want?

 

I hope you're happy in two years when Pettine is coaching somewhere else and the Bills D again becomes as bad as the offense.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

My take is Hacket isn't all that bad, and either is EJ.

 

The one thing Hackett has't figured out though is how to get his offense to play well against those heavy blitzing 3-4 teams, Jets, Saints and now Steelers....with the Jets next week.

 

He has a roster with only raw rookie QB's and they are not accomplished at reading defenses, setting line protections, calling audibles, making hot reads. So Hackett needs to figure out how to beat those teams when they stack the box to stop the run and force the QB to beat them. Then they blitz the heck outta the QB if he is ineffective against the blitz.

 

This is true. On the other hand, so far this season Wood has stayed at center, and Wood should be able to read the D and set the line protections.

 

There also seems to be a little contradiction - first you say Hackett and EJ haven't been all that bad, then you say he needs to figure out how to beat blitzing teams that stack the box to stop the run and force the QB to beat them.

 

There are blueprints for this all over the league. It's fairly simple - you need some creative playcalling to confuse the D and exploit its aggressiveness. Then, you need a competent NFL QB who can answer the challenge when a D plays "pass on us - we dare ya".

 

So far Hackett and EJ are gooseegg for two on these points. Even I can tell what plays the Bills are gonna call.

 

I get it that the Bills offense wasn't executing yesterday, but it's also a point that the playcalling wasn't doing them any favors.

 

Well Said!!! I've thought many of the same things about Hackett and the QB position - if you can rationalize drafting Spiller when you've got Jackson and Lynch, you darn sure better be able to draft a potentially great QB when you don't even have one good one, yet! That's my worst fear - that we pass on a really elite QB talent next year, only to have Manuel remain average, at best.

 

IMO EJ hasn't shown enough to be annointed "the Man" and have us pass on a QB. I get it that he's a rookie, and he's been injured, but IMO if there is a QB we like we need to draft him.

 

The Rams saw a very good rookie season out of Bradford and passed on great QB talent the next couple years only to have him regress. Where has this gotten them? To a place where Kellen Clemens is getting more out of the offense, that's where.

[KD in CA]

they'll win just enough to avoid a real impact player in the draft, as always

 

Nope, they'll just screw up the talent evaluation again and the real impact players will be drafted after the Bills' selection.

 

2011: Bills pick third; 6 of the first 7 picks will be Pro Bowlers within two years. Guess who the Bills draft.

[KikO M G]

 

 

Nope, they'll just screw up the talent evaluation again and the real impact players will be drafted after the Bills' selection.

 

2011: Bills pick third; 6 of the first 7 picks will be Pro Bowlers within two years. Guess who the Bills draft.

 

But Kiko, Woods and Goodwin all look like quality draft picks. Certainly Kiko was a great pick. This was a good draft for the Bills but it ultimately depends on whether EJ pans out because he is a QB and was taken in the first round. There is reason for optimism, IMO, that the drafting will continue to be good, but I do think they have to take a shot at another QB. What's to lose?

[Mopreme]

Original post was very good. I agree on the points especially with taking another QB and Hackett who i think is terrible. This year's offense is subpar. The option play is not working and there isn't enough productivity out of the skilled players. Gailey, in his defense, was a good offensive mind, just not a good coach. His offensive brought out the best of his players and was actually fun to watch. Not sure why everyone is so high on Woods? What has he done so far? Again, the coaches missed the boat. In this league, you meed a 6'3" plus monster in the mold of Dex Bryant, Megatron or AJ Green and these speedy small guys simply don't cut it. At best, Woods will be a Josh Reed who will have some productive games due to his route running but that is about it. I think they need to focus on a big time WR next year either in the draft or FA and select another QB in the high rounds to compete with EJ.

[BuffaloBillsForever]

Anyone that has been paying attention this season knew all of this prior to the game. Today just proved it to the people that used us not being healthy as an excuse. This team peaked at the beginning of the season and is getting worse instead of getting better. If it was the opposite I probably wouldn't be so upset.

 

However I disagree about the defense. While I agree that we let them run the ball right up the middle on us, the defense still turned in a good enough effort to win this game. Most of the points were due to field position from turnovers and special teams. I think the defense is the only unit that has gotten better since the start of the season and hopefully they continue to get better. While Pettine isn't as good of a defensive coach as Rex, I think he is still in the upper echelon in the league.

 

A young team should strive to be better the next game than they were the previous game but I don't see that from this team. We didn't need to make the playoffs this year for it to be a success, we just needed to be able to get better from week to week. We are going in the wrong direction! Changes need to be made. Marrone needs to figure it out or he is going to lose the locker room. The veterans have been there done that so let's see how this team responds

 

Exactly. While many were touting Marrone as a savior and that he is changing the culture, the red flags have been very apparent for several weeks (some starting at week 1). It only took this game for the "casual" fan to realize this.

 

I also take exception that the defense is an issue. Pettine and the defense has been the only reason this team has been watchable.

[atlbillsfan1975]

I been saying Hackett is not cutting it for about 8 weeks now. His play calling is brutal. Hackett is the single biggest thing wrong with this team right now. IF the Bills had an OC on the same level as the DC this team would have a chance in every game. The D gives the Bills a chance in every game. It is the uninspiring play calling of the O that is killing drives.

I also pointed out that around this time Hacketts tendencies would begin becoming more and more appearent to opponents DC.

lebeau is a master and he crushed the young Hackett. Hackett is not a young prodigy. He is a guy in over his head. Marrone needs to get a proven NFL level OC this offseason.

That game yesterday was right there for 2 quarters to take. The Bills have the second worse redzone team in the league. They only hurt that stat yesterday.

Sorry guys, but i been saying all these things since the very early on. It is getting worse because teams now know what the O is going to do.

This season is about to get really bad i think. Bad enough for hackett to lose his job i hope. And Marrone just looks clueless and in over his head on the sideline. I am sure he is bright and knows football but he looks like Dickie J out there.

[DallasBillsFan1]

Good post! I would add that it appeared to me that Spiller was running east/west a lot yesterday. Is that Spiller or an OLine that wasn't opening any holes or creating lanes? Also, small and fast receivers don't appear to be working for this team. I agree with Rich Gannon's analysis at the beginning of the game --- he mentioned that statistically, analysis shows that tall, physical receivers score touchdowns. Receivers that can go up and make a play for the ball ... players who can catch (a well thrown) fade or a pass thrown high and away from defender. Buffalo seems consumed with small and fast (Marrone/Gailey). Although I must admit that Chandler and red beard are tall and are good targets. Of course, an accurate and capable QB will make any offense work well (ala Brady, Brees).

[Kipers Hair]

Man the Bills got exposed today. Inept play and unimaginative, gutless coaching. This game raised more red flags than a tailgate in Tuscaloosa. Some things Im concerned about:

 

1. EJ was Blaine Gabbert brutal today, this against a Steeler team that is not great against the pass. He combined the inaccuracy of JP and the cant wait to check it down of Edwards. Footwork, reading a defense, touch, lack of the long ball, this wasnt progressing and growing. This was turning a turnover by Byrd into a FG and a garbage time TD. I dont know if you take a QB next year early, its a good topic to debate though. With the rookie salary cap, EJ is probably making about the same as Fitz is making per year as a backup in Tennessee so if you took another one its not like you're tied by the salary cap. If you can defend drafting RBs that are the best available player on your board when you have good talent there already, how can you not do the same for a QB? Would it hurt EJs confidence or does every position benefit from competition? Oh and to the people saying Wilson didnt do much if his first 6 or so games last year, guess what, now you get to compare Wilson's progression in the second half of last season to EJs. Hes going to have to pick it up, big time.

 

2. And now on to Hackett, son of Hackett. Color me unimpressed by the resume and results. 2003-4 offensive/coordinators assistant coach at Stanford. 2006-09 offensive quality control coach Bucs-Bills, what exactly does that guy do, get the Krispy Kremes and scout the other team? 2010-12, Qb and TE coach and offensive coordinator of the mighty orange men of the big least. But dont you know we scored at least 20 points in X amount of games? Interesting but if I count defensive touchdowns(which Nate has nothing to do with), the Jets giving up near all-time record penalty yards and the Panthers giving up a stupid pass interference penalty on a pass that was never going to be completed and subsequent TD , we wouldnt even be talking about this meaningless stat. One thing we dont talk about his how many teams havent scored 30 points---ONCE. How many teams havent had a 300 yard passer ONCE in 10 games in a pass happy league. In fact we have thrown for more than 250 yards---ONE time. And Nate had done this with one of the best 1-2-3 runningback stables in the league, rbs that can catch the ball, too. Chan did more with Stevie and the street FAs and got CJ to have a monster year. Chans screens and slants are a distant memory. If he cant figure out how to attack a 3-4 then maybe he should look for another line of work.

 

3. TJ Graham is a turd. Lets admit a mistake and move on, it happens. Goodwin has shown more in a short time with backup QBs than Graham has. Goodwin is the small fast guy, what we dont have is big and fast. Easley has been pretty good on STs which is fine for a 5th-6th wr. We made a mistake trading up for this never will be, Graham. His speed doesnt seem to hit the field and he plays small with no physicality. This guy produces street FA numbers, thats a fact.

 

4 Im not sure what decent(not great) games will prove against the likes of Jacksonville, Tampa and a Miami squad in turmoil. What does it say, that we not that bad? We're not worst in the league bad? Like we should wear that as a badge of honor? I dont think so. That's not progess its groundhog day status quo.

 

5. Pettine is better than Wanny but that like saying your kid is smarter than the dumbest kid in the class. We let a bad rushing team gouge us pretty good and for having a ton of high draft choices in the secondary and a lot invested in our front 4 we are among the worst in the league against the pass. Rex does more with less than Pettine. Pettine is better than Wanny but he sure as **** isnt as good as Rex.

 

6. Lasty if I'm Marrone, I realize I have a 3 season window. If people on my staff are not cutting it, then new people should be brought in. I wouldnt be loyal for loyalty sake, this the big leagues, you either produce or you dont, but Im not going down because of a subordinate's incompetance. The ST coach is in over his head, as I mentioned Hackett is no offensive genius. If he has 3 years, thats 48 games and 10 games have come and gone and we are 3-7. that leaves 38 games. Oh and Doug, if that 3rd year starts bad, you will quickly lose the team and the fans. The lame duck label will be on you faster than you think.

 

Im so done with pain and patience, Im done with excuses. This team today was pretty healthy compared to other teams and laid an absolute dud. Lead, follow or get out of the way.

7. Gilmore is not an elite DB. Gilmore Island is a mirage, upon closer inspection, it was a piece of driftwood....