How many games does Thad Lewis have to win to remain the starter

[simpleman]

Actually it is pretty much exactly what you said.

 

You said....

"I waited for someone to persuade me with facts and statistics that either Lewis or EJ deserved to be considered a potential Franchise OB. Or even a decent starting QB. After this thread has progressed, the only thing it has persuaded me is that it is time to start thinking about drafting a QB high next year, because according to the statistics and facts presented so far there does not appear a potential Franchise QB on our roster."

 

To which I responded that looking for EJs replacement after 5 starts was premature.

No biggy though.

 

As for your argument that if EJ and Thad are playing at similar levels they should fight it out for the starting spot.....

This has been repeatedly addressed in the thread......including one long explanatory post from myself directed to you.

 

In summary of the points made....Thad has been assessed across the league as having miniscule chance to become a good NFL starter.....and EJ has been recently assessed by the Bills to have a decent chance to become a good NFL starter. That

being the case, you don't give valuable playing time to a guy who you think might be a decent backup.....you give it to the guy who you think might become a good starter.

 

If you are going to quote me please do not play the politician and edit the quote out of context to manipulate the truth. People who have no real facts to back up their opinions often resort to manipulations, misquotes and putting their words in other peoples mouths in an attempt to make up for their lack of real facts You left out the important summary line. It seems you have a difficult time differentiating between facts and your own rhetoric.

 

"I'm beginning to think we let the two fight it out the rest of the season as equals and if no one rises above, we have to draft a QB high next year if one is available"

 

I did not say bench him and forget about him, quite the opposite, You did.

[Puckman5]

The people that want to automatically hand EJ the job back when he's healthy are NUTS!! I think he was doing fine for a rookie and he's got plenty of potential, but Lewis is playing at least as well with a fraction of the preparation in this offense. If Lewis doesn't progress over the next 4-6 weeks that obviously plays into the equation, but it's not as simple as wins and losses. I really like what Manuel is about, but there are big holes in his game that didn't improve much in the time he had as a starter. Competition is a good thing and life just aint fair sometimes.

[3rdand12]

The people that want to automatically hand EJ the job back when he's healthy are NUTS!! I think he was doing fine for a rookie and he's got plenty of potential, but Lewis is playing at least as well with a fraction of the preparation in this offense. If Lewis doesn't progress over the next 4-6 weeks that obviously plays into the equation, but it's not as simple as wins and losses. I really like what Manuel is about, but there are big holes in his game that didn't improve much in the time he had as a starter. Competition is a good thing and life just aint fair sometimes.

I suppose we are lucky to be having this discussion over two players rising star.

[K-9]

I suppose we are lucky to be having this discussion over two players rising star.

 

I had promised myself not to post in this thread again, because well, just because.

 

But this was too much of a gem.

 

Yes. We are SO lucky to be having this discussion. Blessed indeed.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[BILLS 4 EVER]

Beat the Saints and I leave him in for the run of it. Unless EJ shows he's better. The best player should play.

[Maury Ballstein]

So EJ forever ? I guess I'm okay with that.

 

With a little progression why not.

[Boatdrinks]

Help me out here Captain. Can you point out what you've seen in his talent and pure ability that tells you he has "immense talent". Be specific please. To me, and I admit I may be clearly missing something, he looks a lot like Thaddeus who you say has already hit his cieling. Not sure how you can tell that, but I digress.

 

I do agree EJ has good leadership, but then again, so does Thaddeus.

 

I'm not saying Thaddeus should be the starter, just that we should keep an open mind. Let Thaddeus play until EJ is ready and then re evaluate. We don't have to decide anything today.

 

Thad Lewis does not gave elite size, has an average arm, and small hands. His release is slow, this will catch up to him as teams get more film on him and apply more pressure. Will have problems with strip sacks. He has good mobility and is a good leader. Slides very well. EJ Manuel is an elite athlete. Has impressive size and build, huge hands. Very good arm strength, above average mobility, though doesn't look to run first. More of a long strider than a runner. Very good leadership skills. A bit raw, somewhat mechanical in his short throws, needs more touch on these. If you set these two QB's side by side and watched them, and someone told you one was not drafted and one was a first round pick, most people would correctly guess which was which. That is the easiest way to put it. One guy looks like an elite athlete, one does not. Doesn't mean Thad Lewis can't play in the league. Doesn't mean EJM is a slam dunk to be a franchise QB. But EJ was the pick and will be given the chance by the Bills brass to validate their faith in him.

[Captain Hindsight]

Thad Lewis does not gave elite size, has an average arm, and small hands. His release is slow, this will catch up to him as teams get more film on him and apply more pressure. Will have problems with strip sacks. He has good mobility and is a good leader. Slides very well. EJ Manuel is an elite athlete. Has impressive size and build, huge hands. Very good arm strength, above average mobility, though doesn't look to run first. More of a long strider than a runner. Very good leadership skills. A bit raw, somewhat mechanical in his short throws, needs more touch on these. If you set these two QB's side by side and watched them, and someone told you one was not drafted and one was a first round pick, most people would correctly guess which was which. That is the easiest way to put it. One guy looks like an elite athlete, one does not. Doesn't mean Thad Lewis can't play in the league. Doesn't mean EJM is a slam dunk to be a franchise QB. But EJ was the pick and will be given the chance by the Bills brass to validate their faith in him.

This^

 

At the Baltimore game I saw just the raw talent EJ has. You either have it or you don't. EJ is built like an elite athlete, Thad just isn't.

[Dibs]

If you are going to quote me please do not play the politician and edit the quote out of context to manipulate the truth. People who have no real facts to back up their opinions often resort to manipulations, misquotes and putting their words in other peoples mouths in an attempt to make up for their lack of real facts You left out the important summary line. It seems you have a difficult time differentiating between facts and your own rhetoric.

 

"I'm beginning to think we let the two fight it out the rest of the season as equals and if no one rises above, we have to draft a QB high next year if one is available"

 

I did not say bench him and forget about him, quite the opposite, You did.

 

The "summary" you put is incongruous to the statement you made earlier in the post.....which was...."it is time to start thinking about drafting a QB high next year, because according to the statistics and facts presented so far there does not appear a potential Franchise QB on our roster."

 

Don't have a go at me for editing your post when you make two different comments on a subject in it. Both comments I might add basically ignore the concept of player potential as determined by the NFL experts(particularly the Bills experts).

[Luis Mendoza]

This^

 

At the Baltimore game I saw just the raw talent EJ has. You either have it or you don't. EJ is built like an elite athlete, Thad just isn't.

 

So was Yince Young. Way too early to tell what we have with EJ.

Edited October 23, 2013 by Luis Mendoza

[Superb Owl]

With all due respect to the Thad supporters here, there is no controversy. Thad is gritty, tough and has made some nice plays. He has also looked like a QB that just came off the PS. He is Fitz with a better arm. Once teams get more than 3 games of footage on him he will be easier to defend. I have little faith in a Thad Lewis led team for 16 games. He is limited, went undrafted for a reason and was backing up KELLEN MOORE in Detroit two months ago. His ceiling may already have been reached. EJ has immense talent albeit he is a bit raw. But if you haven't recognized his talent, leadership and pure ability, you are clearly missing something

I think you just called him a good QB

[Luis Mendoza]

It matters not. When EJ returns to health, he's the starting QB. Period! EOS.

 

Blasphemous.

[Boatdrinks]

This^

 

At the Baltimore game I saw just the raw talent EJ has. You either have it or you don't. EJ is built like an elite athlete, Thad just isn't.

 

Yep, you know it when you see it. He's got a long way to go, but he looks like the most talented QB we've had around here since the Kelly days, maybe the first year of Bledsoe. The TD to stevie vs Pats, the TD (overturned by replay) to Woods vs Ravens? were upper echelon throws most guys can't make. I like Lewis, but for me this season was about EJ's progress and still will be when he returns unless a major win streak means we keep TL in there.

[Luis Mendoza]

With all due respect to the Thad supporters here, there is no controversy. Thad is gritty, tough and has made some nice plays. He has also looked like a QB that just came off the PS. He is Fitz with a better arm. Once teams get more than 3 games of footage on him he will be easier to defend. I have little faith in a Thad Lewis led team for 16 games. He is limited, went undrafted for a reason and was backing up KELLEN MOORE in Detroit two months ago. His ceiling may already have been reached. EJ has immense talent albeit he is a bit raw. But if you haven't recognized his talent, leadership and pure ability, you are clearly missing something

 

Not calling you out specifically, but calling you out specifically. Everyone on this board relates all Quarterbacks to Fitz. I do not get it, is everyone a prototype of Ryan Fitzpatrick? Because IMO the Harvard Hammer is one of kind. Show some more creativity.

[FireChan]

This^

 

At the Baltimore game I saw just the raw talent EJ has. You either have it or you don't. EJ is built like an elite athlete, Thad just isn't.

 

What did you see specifically? I'm being honest, I forgot what EJ looked like that game. I mean, he did have a QBR of 9. I've never seen a defense bail out an offense like that game.

 

I think the chances of Thad reaching his ceiling already is pretty low. In fact, I could've seen Russel Wilson riding the pine for a few years if he wasn't competing against Matt Flynn, who was a new addition to the team and had very little advantage over Wilson. If we had kept Fitzpatrick, could you not have seen EJ riding the bench? It happens. Some guys don't light it up when they first show up, but can still be good or even great. Isn't that what we hoped for with EJ?

 

Thad Lewis does not gave elite size, has an average arm, and small hands. His release is slow, this will catch up to him as teams get more film on him and apply more pressure. Will have problems with strip sacks. He has good mobility and is a good leader. Slides very well. EJ Manuel is an elite athlete. Has impressive size and build, huge hands. Very good arm strength, above average mobility, though doesn't look to run first. More of a long strider than a runner. Very good leadership skills. A bit raw, somewhat mechanical in his short throws, needs more touch on these. If you set these two QB's side by side and watched them, and someone told you one was not drafted and one was a first round pick, most people would correctly guess which was which. That is the easiest way to put it. One guy looks like an elite athlete, one does not. Doesn't mean Thad Lewis can't play in the league. Doesn't mean EJM is a slam dunk to be a franchise QB. But EJ was the pick and will be given the chance by the Bills brass to validate their faith in him.

 

"problems with strip sacks" Who are we talking about here? Which QB has been stripped more?

 

"Has impressive size and build, huge hands. Very good arm strength, above average mobility" JP? Freeman? Why, this could be almost of the bust QB's in the league.

 

If I watched film on both players side to side, I would see stretches of awful with a dash of spectacular. Which ever QB can change that should start. "Looks like an athlete" and all that other garbage matters to the pre draft choices, not to deciding who is a starter.

Edited October 23, 2013 by FireChan

[reddogblitz]

"problems with strip sacks" Who are we talking about here? Which QB has been stripped more?

 

You beat me to it. Of the 2, the guy with the problem with strip sacks is EJ. In Gruden's QB camp with EJ, he told him he better take better care of the football because NFL guys would be swatting it out. Looks like he was right.

 

I want the guy in that gives us the best chance to win Sunday. Whoever that is. No one has separated themselves ON THE FIELD. Thaddeus gets a few more starts. I look forward to seeing what he does. We'll re visit this starter thing when EJ gets healthy.

[Leelee Phoenix]

The people that want to automatically hand EJ the job back when he's healthy are NUTS!!

But that's reality, as much as I don't like it.

 

And Manuel is starting next year too, the injury probably locks that up. I'd like the Bills to prove me wrong and continue working to improve the QB position.

[Boatdrinks]

What did you see specifically? I'm being honest, I forgot what EJ looked like that game. I mean, he did have a QBR of 9. I've never seen a defense bail out an offense like that game.

 

I think the chances of Thad reaching his ceiling already is pretty low. In fact, I could've seen Russel Wilson riding the pine for a few years if he wasn't competing against Matt Flynn, who was a new addition to the team and had very little advantage over Wilson. If we had kept Fitzpatrick, could you not have seen EJ riding the bench? It happens. Some guys don't light it up when they first show up, but can still be good or even great. Isn't that what we hoped for with EJ?

 

 

 

"problems with strip sacks" Who are we talking about here? Which QB has been stripped more?

 

"Has impressive size and build, huge hands. Very good arm strength, above average mobility" JP? Freeman? Why, this could be almost of the bust QB's in the league.

 

If I watched film on both players side to side, I would see stretches of awful with a dash of spectacular. Which ever QB can change that should start. "Looks like an athlete" and all that other garbage matters to the pre draft choices, not to deciding who is a starter.

 

Well. First off JP did not have elite size. As far as strip sacks, small hands + slow drop back/release will OVER TIME result in strip sacks as teams SEND MORE PRESSURE at TL. He's had two games of film, one of which he had excellent protection. The other he did not and ..a pick where his arm was swatted occurred. I meant to set them side by side and watch them throw, drop back etc. Not watch game film. That is the reason why you go with the ELITE ATHLETE because you are looking for a franchise QB. Not a guy who can be "good" or a mediocrity. As Yogi Bera would say "this ain't rocket surgery". It is just how the NFL works. The first round pick is going to be given a chance(that means more than 5 games, probably a few SEASONS). Get over it. This thing is already decided anyway. TL wins, he stays in to make a playoff push. If not, he doesn't. Either way its already determined. So many people just want to manufacture a controversy a la Flutie/Johnson. I like both QB's. Long term, I'd go with Manuel because he has the chance to be much better. That is what the BILLS will do, which is really all that matters.

[dave mcbride]

What's interesting to me about Thad Lewis is that he has proven he can definitely play in the NFL. He's a good backup. Ironically, Tuel's meltdown is the sort of thing that might lead to a ten-year career as a backup for Lewis.

 

Lewis owes Tuel at least a small portion of the multiple millions of dollars he'll be earning over the next ten years presuming he sticks.

[Boatdrinks]

You beat me to it. Of the 2, the guy with the problem with strip sacks is EJ. In Gruden's QB camp with EJ, he told him he better take better care of the football because NFL guys would be swatting it out. Looks like he was right.

 

I want the guy in that gives us the best chance to win Sunday. Whoever that is. No one has separated themselves ON THE FIELD. Thaddeus gets a few more starts. I look forward to seeing what he does. We'll re visit this starter thing when EJ gets healthy.

 

I said WILL HAVE problems with strip sacks!!!!! He's had 2 starts! Perhaps you'll revisit this "starter thing" why don't you tell the Bills that? Something tells me they already have a plan. Something like they will keep TL in if they are in the thick of the playoff race, otherwise it's back to EJ. I'm sure the Bills will also be interested to know that their new criteria for drafting QB's should be to move away from big elite athletes and to begin drafting midgets. Or better yet, just go with UDFA's at QB as it is much cheaper and one out of every few hundred or so actually succeeds in the league. Perhaps they will hire YOU, an innovator that goes against the conventional wisdom, as their next GM!