HC decisions - this best summed it up about Sunday

[K-9]

If we huddled or at least used a slower pace on all 3 downs of our last possession wouldn't it have been more like an additional 26 seconds X 3? That would have taken a little over a minute off of the clock which may have been enough for the Cheatriots to have felt enough pressure for a different outcome.

 

I agree that our play calling was overly conservative.

 

No. 2nd down was an incomplete pass that stopped the clock. After the catch by Chandler on 3rd down, they ran the play clock down to 3 seconds before Powell punted. So the ONLY opportunity to burn that additional 26 seconds came after the 1st down run by Spiller.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[BuffaloBill]

Give this team and staff a little time. Why do they not get some credit for getting a rookie QB ready to play his first game? The fact the Bills were in striking distance of a win against the team that is supposed to be the best in the division says a lot. Also the D was night and day better than last year - with possibly the exception of the run D.

 

We need to be at least 6-8 games deep into the season before we really get a look at what we have. If they can go 500 in the first half and make a solid run in the second half you color this season as a big step forward.

 

[herns78]

I am always amazed at the pessimism on this site. It's week 1 of a new regime....relax!! Did you really expect a new coaching staff in their first game working together to not make any mistakes?! They will happen...unfortunately, they will continue to happen. Coaches make mistakes too, and I have a lot of confidence that this head coach will learn from them. You could tell after the game how upset he was about the loss. As for their overall performance, I was pretty pleased. The truth is we are still at least a year out from really competing with the top teams in the league. We have a lot of new faces on this roster that have never played together, and it will take time for them to really gel and learn how to play well together. Instead of complaining about every single decision, look at the big picture and realize you have to crawl before you can walk. It's going to take time to get where we want to be. It doesn't happen overnight. This is the first time I've posted here....couldn't help myself after reading all these ridiculous negative posts.

[RevWarRifleman]

You can say the penalties, CJ contained, Stevie's drop, or no Gilmore....or a number of other things lost the Bills the game this past Sunday.

I say they still could have won despite those setbacks.

To me, it was the decisions in game that handed the Patriots* the win.

The 4th and shorts in NE territory that Marrone opted to punt.....these were huge. The second thing....not managing the clock when it was most needed. The hurry up is fine but it needs to be used wisely, not "all the time".

 

This is your first game as HC for a team that needed its first game against the organizations biggest rival. They had a thin set of receivers and their biggest hope at WR was playing with a very noticeable injury. You have them on the ropes....no one, except maybe your young team, expected much out of you in this game much less the entire season. You are rebuilding...and in a sense had "nothing to lose".

You go for it on 4th and 1. You send an instant message to your troops and to your nemesis, that there truly is change....this time things are gonna be different, and it all starts Week 1, against the favorite in the division. You take that opportunity and the cushion of low expectations, and you have your rookie 1st Round QB - the face of the franchise and symbol of your first step in the league as HC, all 6'-5" 240 lbs of him - and you grab that first down. Boost your team's confidence, make the loud statement that this is how things are gonna be done around here now.

 

Spare me the whiny "what if he doesn't make it?"......you don't ask that....because you make it and there's no reason you shouldn't be able to at home with momentum already in your favor....with your banged up opponent gasping for air against the ropes.

 

Hopefully this coach doesn't continue to make the same chicken sh*t decisions that we have become accustomed to seeing in Buffalo.

 

Hopefully, he's smart enough to learn from this and also realize that the clock needs some work when you are up in the fourth against a guy like Tom Brady.

 

Doug let a huge opportunity go by this past Sunday....a defining moment just waiting for him to grab.

Good arguments UMH. It was frustrating & I was thinking some of those same thoughts while the 4th quarter was progressing. This is what I see is all part of the frustrating side of the "learning curve" of this year's Bills, from the coach on down to the players. Mainly the young players. RWR Go Bills!

[1billsfan]

I am always amazed at the pessimism on this site. It's week 1 of a new regime....relax!! Did you really expect a new coaching staff in their first game working together to not make any mistakes?! They will happen...unfortunately, they will continue to happen. Coaches make mistakes too, and I have a lot of confidence that this head coach will learn from them. You could tell after the game how upset he was about the loss. As for their overall performance, I was pretty pleased. The truth is we are still at least a year out from really competing with the top teams in the league. We have a lot of new faces on this roster that have never played together, and it will take time for them to really gel and learn how to play well together. Instead of complaining about every single decision, look at the big picture and realize you have to crawl before you can walk. It's going to take time to get where we want to be. It doesn't happen overnight. This is the first time I've posted here....couldn't help myself after reading all these ridiculous negative posts.

 

Dude, you may be way too smart to be posting here...LOL

 

Totally agree, considering all the Bills had going on with Spiller's grandfather just recently going on a killing rampage and killing himself, the rookie Manuel had a knee that recently was worked on and missed two crucial weeks of practice, new head coach and coaches, brand new crazy fast offensive system, crazy amount of penalties occuring, silly turnovers, going against the an all time great QB and head coach.

 

Considering all that was going on, I'm amazed that they had the lead. Imagine the possibilities when things settle down and this team can focus and be comfortable with their coaches, teammates and system.

Edited September 11, 2013 by 1billsfan

[FireChan]

Baloney. If you don't make the play, you are giving the ball back to Tom Brady close to mid-field. It just takes him a few plays to get the Patriots to FG position to take the lead. You can't simply second guess the coaching decisions.

 

We netted 22 yards on punt. That's one play for Brady. BB goes for 4th and 1 on his on 40 not even in the 4th quarter. It's called guts, and trusting in your 5.6 YPC running back who was unstoppable all day.

 

I second-guessed the hell out of that challenge, so I don't know what you mean. That was horrible, and we don't have the "our head coach is old and senile" line anymore. They fired the guy upstairs who makes the challenge decisions right?

[KGUNBILLS]

If you lose by 1 point or by 40, what to hell is the difference? As a long time playoff starved Bills fan, I say if we can't win games, at least be entertaining. Be aggressive, go for it on fourth down. Use some trickery. For gods sake give us something different to look at or write about around here. Who knows, maybe if we keep doing it, we might psych out the hoodie and consistently start beating the pats. It seemed like every time we converted a 3rd and long, there was a penalty flag. Bring out the kicker on 3rd and long, line him up on the outside. The hoodie panics because he has never seen this on his spy gate films. The kicker catches a 15 yard pass over the middle and runs untouched to the end zone as time expires and the Bills fans storm the field and rip the hood off Belicheats sweatshirt and fly it as a wind marker on the uprights!

[K-9]

The mark of a good coach is to see how he adjusts in the following week.

 

I recall only one punt situation that may have been a questionable call. I don't recall several. Time off the clock wouldn't have mattered on the last drive, unless OP is advocating Jauron's three rushes into a wall that would also gain no yards but eat up 90 seconds. The reason the drive didn't eat up any time is because Bills passed on two downs - you know to try to move the chains.

 

It's trite to continue to state the obvious, but Bills beat themselves again with boneheaded mistakes. The coaches, for a change, put the players in a position to win. But, the players didn't do their part. Take away the drops, take away the penalties, take away the fumbles and it's a different outcome. The sad part is that it was mostly veterans who made the key mistakes.

 

Great analysis.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Alphadawg7]

 

 

 

I never said 26 seconds lost us the game....read my original post... i included it, i didn't say it was the main reason.

You say that putting the offense in the most opportune position to extend the drive is using the quick play clock..... The same hurry up all game long resulted in 5 three-and-outs before the last one!!! What was so opportune about that? If your offense showed that many of the same result, shouldn't that clue you in on the your chances on this one? The defense barely sat down before they had to go out again. Without a defensive TD, we don't have the lead. but you act like we had the lead thanks to the up tempo O. With all the penalties they had, maybe that the up tempo was more of a problem for our offense than a success. If we didn't execute it well, what makes you think they would with a one point lead??? You'll find a way to ignore that as well, I'm sure. That offense that was living on the hurry up was also dying by it more often.

Brady used the hurry up as well, but they slowed it down as well and still had success...with arguably less talent at RB & WR than the Bills. They definitely ran more plays against us, for more yards, and more points. They won the ball game running a good mix of plays too. And I'm sure a tired Bills D (thanks to the hurry up failures) had a lot to do with Vereen looking like an all-star and a hurt WR dominating us when it counted.

But you'd rather keep getting the same results (yes, another quick 3 and out).

 

So you seem to be the one ignoring what "actually happened"

 

Actually if you watched the game, the uptempo offense worked but we killed ourselves with penalties, drops, and 2 fumbles...otherwise we would have been up multiple scores

 

If we huddled or at least used a slower pace on all 3 downs of our last possession wouldn't it have been more like an additional 26 seconds X 3? That would have taken a little over a minute off of the clock which may have been enough for the Cheatriots to have felt enough pressure for a different outcome.

 

I agree that our play calling was overly conservative.

 

Incomplete passes stop the clock and so does change of possession...clock was stopped on first down by default and had an incomplete pass to stop it a second time. There was only one down we could have ran more time off which was about 20-26 more seconds.

 

This is the fundamental problem with the people arguing this, they don't even understand what they are arguing and how little time it actually was.

Edited September 11, 2013 by Alphadawg7

[eball]

Hopefully, he's smart enough to learn from this and also realize that the clock needs some work when you are up in the fourth against a guy like Tom Brady.

 

It's amazing to me how many people don't understand the logic behind the Bills continuing to go with their fast pace when they got the ball with almost 6 minutes to go in the 4th quarter. They were up by ONE point. Anyone who believes "milking" the clock would have resulted in the Pats* not getting another shot to drive for a FG is delusional. The Bills had one sustained drive all afternoon -- their first drive of the 3rd quarter. Other than that it had been dribs and drabs. The best hope to put the game away was to try and do what they gameplanned -- which is move at a fast pace and try to go get more points.

 

I take absolutely no issue whatsoever with the strategy at that juncture. If the clock is at 3:00 to go, it's a different story.

 

The issue I have is with the specific playcalling on that possession; I would have loved to see a pass on 1st down, or have Freddy in there who had run much more decisively during the game.

[7boogiewoogie]

geezus...more complaining in yet another thread about the hurry up on our final drive. For the last time...there was almost 6 minutes (an eternity) left with NE having essentially 4 timeouts (2 min warning too) when we had the ball. There was ONLY 26 more seconds we could have taken off the clock...26 seconds did NOT lose us this game. Brady was not even in his 2 min offense yet still got a chip shot for his kicker with more than a minute left in the game. The 26 seconds had LITERALLY NO IMPACT ON THE FINAL OUTCOME OF THE GAME...LITERALLY ZERO. (I capitalize to emphasize).

 

The CORRECT call was to keep putting your offense in the most opportune position to extend the drive. That was based in our hurry up offense. It was 100% the correct call, not even debatable. Unfortunately, his players failed to execute the offense to get the first down. If we could have gotten at least a couple of first downs, then there is value in running out the clock. But not with almost SIX minutes left in a 1 point game where a stupid FG loses you the game and any one single play can put a team in FG position. And if that happens the game is 100% over because they will run the clock down to the final seconds to get the final play and your only hope is a rare block or a missed kick.

 

Its really not that complicated.

 

Exactly right

[atlbillsfan1975]

Every Bills coach has lost their first game. i know the Bills have had some bad HC's but they also have had some great ones. HC's that have won Championships from the AFL days to Marv who got the team to 4 straight SB.

 

As far as the last drive the Bills had the ball, i can go either way. Personally i think you keep running your offense that in the second half got you 7 points on an 80 yard drive.

You where not going to run the clock out no matter what. Even if you went down and scorred a TD you still would have only been up by 8( a one possesion game).

Brady would of had enough time to lead his team down the field and score. And go for 2 and send it to OT.

What then? People complaining Marrone did not go for a 2pt conversion?

 

Monday morning QB is great. You are never wrong because someone else already took the risk and failed. We can sit here and say what we would have done because we already know what not to do.

Edited September 11, 2013 by atlbillsfan1975

[bowery4]

Maybe....But they could have accomplished the scoring with slower snap count, and even if they didn't, Brady has less time to get them in FG position.

 

To your point of hoping the defense will do its job.....that D spent way too much time on the field. We want our Offense on the field, not the defense against a proven late game drive manager like Brady. Haven't we done all this and allowed him to do this too many times in the past?

I think expecting to make a yard is better than hoping the D stops them, and that's after hoping they don't return the punt for good field position. A lot of hope vs. getting a yard.

 

I was talking about the going for it vs punting which I think happened a bit earlier in the game and the D was still effective at that point, no? A lot of people have more or less agreed with my position or said the same thing in another way, that I really think it is almost obvious that the 2nd guessing isn't worth the argument.... And I agree with e-ball they could have used FJ in that drive, I am kind of vamoosed that they didn't but for a different reason; a long Spiller run would have ate almost no clock too (if it was very successful and he did happen to score).

[Gerry]

I wonder how much the Bills practiced the QB sneak in camp. You have a QB who is 6'5", 240 lbs, with Wood at center. How many times have you seen the Pats run the sneak on 4th and 1 over the years? If the Bills do not have confidence to run it in enemy territory, they might as well go to the locker room and concede the game. This was a Jauron/Gailey move by Marrone, and I hope we don't see it again.

[DefenseWinzChampionshipz]

That final drive with over 5 minutes that everyone is talking about needed to be executed like this:

 

Offer to get Fitz back on the team for a 5th round pick, have Fitz manage the huddle, break the huddle, have EJ line up next to him in the shotgun as a tailback, Fitz brings the snap clock down to 0.1 seconds every play, tosses the ball backwards to EJ and EJ plays quarterback THAT way...

 

It's simple man... DAMN!

 

Every Bills coach has lost their first game. i know the Bills have had some bad HC's but they also have had some great ones. HC's that have won Championships from the AFL days to Marv who got the team to 4 straight SB.

 

As far as the last drive the Bills had the ball, i can go either way. Personally i think you keep running your offense that in the second half got you 7 points on an 80 yard drive.

You where not going to run the clock out no matter what. Even if you went down and scorred a TD you still would have only been up by 8( a one possesion game).

Brady would of had enough time to lead his team down the field and score. And go for 2 and send it to OT.

What then? People complaining Marrone did not go for a 2pt conversion?

 

Monday morning QB is great. You are never wrong because someone else already took the risk and failed. We can sit here and say what we would have done because we already know what not to do.

 

Well the only problem I see in there is the highlighted part... Over 5 minutes left starting beyond the 20 is not that much time for a regular drive in the NFL. A team who was running the ball good could have easily ran for 6 yards, then another 6, then another 5, then another 4, then break one for 11. All of that happening while the clock is moving. Also throw in a couple of 0 yard gains that will also milk the clock. There wouldn't have been enough time on the clock left if we were succesful in the run game, which we weren't.

 

It's sad to say but Gailey's slant route, screen plays would have worked best in that drive with all the 2 yard passes that Gailey would call...

Edited September 11, 2013 by DefenseWinzChampionshipz

[Joe Miner]

How do people rationalize calling for a coach to have guts and go for 4th down conversions, while at the same time suggesting that the same coach tries to milk the clock on a 1 point lead against Brady?

[K-9]

How do people rationalize calling for a coach to have guts and go for 4th down conversions, while at the same time suggesting that the same coach tries to milk the clock on a 1 point lead against Brady?

 

Best question in the thread. Although I'm sure the irony will be lost on those that need to see it the most.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Rinlo]

I agree in spirit with what you have said. But I would justify it by saying that the hurry-up offense needs to stay on the field and wear out the defense with every play that they can. Therefore, the bills should be going for it on every 4th down from about midfield and closer. At worst you forced their defense to play one more down that the otherwise rested special teams players would be out on the field for.

 

How do people rationalize calling for a coach to have guts and go for 4th down conversions, while at the same time suggesting that the same coach tries to milk the clock on a 1 point lead against Brady?

 

Field position.

[Cash]

It's amazing to me how many people don't understand the logic behind the Bills continuing to go with their fast pace when they got the ball with almost 6 minutes to go in the 4th quarter. They were up by ONE point. Anyone who believes "milking" the clock would have resulted in the Pats* not getting another shot to drive for a FG is delusional. The Bills had one sustained drive all afternoon -- their first drive of the 3rd quarter. Other than that it had been dribs and drabs. The best hope to put the game away was to try and do what they gameplanned -- which is move at a fast pace and try to go get more points.

 

I take absolutely no issue whatsoever with the strategy at that juncture. If the clock is at 3:00 to go, it's a different story.

 

The issue I have is with the specific playcalling on that possession; I would have loved to see a pass on 1st down, or have Freddy in there who had run much more decisively during the game.

 

Good post. Lost in all the "uptempo or no?" debate is (IMO) the more important point: the offense was really bad. Don't criticize it for being uptempo, criticize it for stinking up the joint. 286 total yards and 150 passing yards are pathetic totals. And the true believers can talk about penalties and drops and fumbles all they want, but penalties and drops and fumbles are all part of the game. You shouldn't need to play a 100% mistake-free game in order to be good, and it's unrealistic to expect a mistake-free game more than once a year at most. And in fact, we probably should expect a lot of mistakes. The Bills had huge penalty issues all preseason; why should they magically go away now? If our offense can't overcome several penalties a game, it will not succeed with this current crew. Stevie has had drops in the past, Graham has horrible hands, and Woods had tons of drops in training camp, per practice reports. If our offense can't overcome a couple drops a game, it needs to get new receivers before it can be any good.

 

Now, the whole uptempo debate might have some merit IF the Bills' offensive problems are due in part to the fast pace -- e.g., maybe the linemen are getting winded and forced to hold more often or something. Way too early for me to say that the tempo is part of the problem, but I don't think we should blindly accept that the coaching staff is correct in their assumption that uptempo offense is inherently more efficient than downtempo offense.

[xsoldier54]

It's amazing to me how many people don't understand the logic behind the Bills continuing to go with their fast pace when they got the ball with almost 6 minutes to go in the 4th quarter. They were up by ONE point. Anyone who believes "milking" the clock would have resulted in the Pats* not getting another shot to drive for a FG is delusional. The Bills had one sustained drive all afternoon -- their first drive of the 3rd quarter. Other than that it had been dribs and drabs. The best hope to put the game away was to try and do what they gameplanned -- which is move at a fast pace and try to go get more points.

 

I take absolutely no issue whatsoever with the strategy at that juncture. If the clock is at 3:00 to go, it's a different story.

 

The issue I have is with the specific playcalling on that possession; I would have loved to see a pass on 1st down, or have Freddy in there who had run much more decisively during the game.

This.