chris heff Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 I agree with much you stated with the exception of where I highlighted. Kolb knows his role. He came to a team because the prior starter wasn't willing to accept a backup role and a pay cut commensurate with his change of qb status. Kolb is also very aware that the Bills used their first round pick on a qb. He signed with the Bills for the simple reason that no other team was banging on his door. He had no other options at that point Whether Kolb starts or not is determined by not how well he plays; it is determined by whether E.J. is prepared enough to play right away or not. Even if Kolb starts right away he is not the long term qb answer, and never will be. A qb such as Kolb or Fitz can make a lot of money and can last a long time in this league if the player understands and is accepting of their role. Rex Grossman has been in the league for 11 seasons. At his best he is nothing more than a pedestrian qb. But as a backup he has carved up a very useful role that has turned out to be very lucrative. Make no mistake about it Kolb is not gong to be a quarrelsome and resentful veteran qb who resents the young qb prospect like Favre did in Green Bay. Kolb signed with the Bills with the staff making clear what they expected from him and with the understanding where this franchise was going with the qb position. What was more mind boggling about not having a backup plan if Fitz was not the answer is in the first place believing that Fitz was ever going to be the answer, short or long term. Nix's lassez-faire approach to drafting a serious qb prospect in his first three years was tantamount to malfeasance. His three year record was 16-32. The Bills are now in another rebuilding faze. Yet there are still ardent devotees of him insisting that he did a good job. That willing acceptance of mediocrity is somehting I don't undrstand, and never will!!!! This from "Kolb set for different QB competition" by Chris Brown. Does that quote sound like he knows his role? "So what about the perception that EJ Manuel is the long term answer for the franchise at the quarterback position?" “I don’t buy what’s being sold I guess,” said Kolb. “I just listen to what they tell me to do and roll on with it. I have a lot of confidence in my abilities and this offense and hopefully what I can do in it.” Sorry paste didn't work Kolb quote " I guess I don't buy what is being sold" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kipers Hair Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 Perhaps this is why we used our 1st pick on a QB. Born of curiosity, I wonder where Jaws had Russell WIlson and Collin Kapernak last year at this time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big C Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 Perhaps this is why we used our 1st pick on a QB. Born of curiosity, I wonder where Jaws had Russell WIlson and Collin Kapernak last year at this time? At this time last year, neither were starting QBs so they wouldn't have been ranked. Looks like Jaws doesn't rank rookies, as Luck and RGIII were absent from the list. http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcnorth/post/_/id/43623/jaws-qb-countdown-aaron-rodgers-no-1 has the full list from last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 For those that didn't click on the link, it's a worthwhile read. The series is based on Jaworski ranking the Top 32 starting QBs in the league starting with #32 and finishing with the player he believes is the best QB in the league. Jaworski spends substantial space on each quarterback, discussing their strengths and weaknesses. His rankings so far: 32) Matt Flynn 31) Jake Locker 30) Kevin Kolb 29) Chad Henne 28) Mark Sanchez 27) Christian Ponder 26) Brandon Weeden 25) Michael Vick 24) Ryan Tannehill 23) Carson Palmer 22) Sam Bradford 21) Josh Freeman 20) Alex Smith http://espnmediazone...countdown/#kolb I think it's pretty much horseradish and hossenpfeffer myself. But time will tell. Ron Jaworski is one of the best qb evaluators in the business. Not to nitpick, but can you help me understand the basis for this statement? Jaws undoubtedly knows something about being an NFL QB having actually played 17 yrs in the league. Being able to do it, and being able to evaluate it meaninfully from film, are two different things - reason ex-players don't always make the best commentators and coaches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
first_and_ten Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 After week 2, his order of quarterbacks could be 90% different. It's an educated guessing game. Take it for what it's worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 (edited) I think it's pretty much horseradish and hossenpfeffer myself. But time will tell. Not to nitpick, but can you help me understand the basis for this statement? Jaws undoubtedly knows something about being an NFL QB having actually played 17 yrs in the league. Being able to do it, and being able to evaluate it meaninfully from film, are two different things - reason ex-players don't always make the best commentators and coaches. Jaws had a long but not too distinguished career. He was a decent qb but nothing special. What he now does very well and is acknowledged by many people in the business is break down game tapes and evaluate players. His specialty is breaking down the play of the qbs by watching the video. From what I have observed over a number of years of watching his commentary on players is that he knows what he is talking about. He has no agenda or team loyalties when evaluating players. He gives his opinion and he demonstrates the point he is making regarding the play of players by showing the video. In my view he knows what he is talking about. Another person I have a high regard for in evaluating players and prospects is Greg Cosell. He, as is Jaws, is a video junkie who bases his opinions on what he sees and not what others are saying. Edited July 7, 2013 by JohnC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 Jaws had a long but not too distinguished career. He was a decent qb but nothing special. What he now does very well and is acknowledged by many people in the business is break down game tapes and evaluate players. His specialty is breaking down the play of the qbs by watching the video. From what I have observed over a number of years of watching his commentary on players is that he knows what he is talking about. He has no agenda or team loyalties when evaluating players. He gives his opinion and he demonstrates the point he is making regarding the play of players by showing the video. In my view he knows what he is talking about. Another person I have a high regard for in evaluating players and prospects is Greg Cosell. He, as is Jaws, is a video junkie who bases his opinions on what he sees and not what others are saying. I agree wholeheartedly with your post with one caveat: I've seen both Jaws and Cosell get in trouble making evaluations on players that they've not studied enough of. I know this because they will come back a few weeks later and correct earlier opinions and explain the difference as "having watched more tape." I know there's a lot of pressure to produce on-demand opinions but I think we realize that they're human beings here. I don't know why a guy can't say "I don't feel comfortable having a formed opinion of this player just yet. I've watched 3 of his games and here are some of the things I've noticed so far…" with the implication that they'll come back at a later date and give a more definitive evaluation. Just a pet peeve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 I agree wholeheartedly with your post with one caveat: I've seen both Jaws and Cosell get in trouble making evaluations on players that they've not studied enough of. I know this because they will come back a few weeks later and correct earlier opinions and explain the difference as "having watched more tape." I know there's a lot of pressure to produce on-demand opinions but I think we realize that they're human beings here. I don't know why a guy can't say "I don't feel comfortable having a formed opinion of this player just yet. I've watched 3 of his games and here are some of the things I've noticed so far…" with the implication that they'll come back at a later date and give a more definitive evaluation. Just a pet peeve. You make a good observation regarding premature evaluatiions and how it can make you look foolish. However, as you noted both analysts are not afraid of changing their opinions based on the further play of a player. Sometimes players have slumps and are criticized for their poor play at that particular juncture. Those same players can come back in the season and turn their mediocre play into stellar play. Both analysts (as you noted) are not afraid to admit they were wrong with their initial assessment and change their evaluation to a more positive view. Especially with Jaws I never got the sense that he had an agenda against any player or team. In my view Greg Cosell has a little more edge to his evaluations.. Both analysts are good at breaking down the tape and communicating that which they see. In my view both individuals are good at what they do and they are fair. I respect and like them both. A side note: Greg Cosell was very harsh in his evaluation of Barkley in this draft. His main criticisms dealt with his arm strength and lack of athleticism. He liked Nassib a lot. If I recall correctly he also liked EJ Manuel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 This from "Kolb set for different QB competition" by Chris Brown. Does that quote sound like he knows his role? "So what about the perception that EJ Manuel is the long term answer for the franchise at the quarterback position?" “I don’t buy what’s being sold I guess,” said Kolb. “I just listen to what they tell me to do and roll on with it. I have a lot of confidence in my abilities and this offense and hopefully what I can do in it.” Sorry paste didn't work Kolb quote " I guess I don't buy what is being sold" ********* “I don’t buy what’s being sold I guess,” said Kolb. “I just listen to what they tell me to do and roll on with it. I have a lot of confidence in my abilities and this offense and hopefully what I can do in it.” ********* Copy and paste worked for me. Maybe that's because I'm on a Mac. I have no problem with that quote. If Kolb's goal is to prove to the coaching staff that he's the long-term answer at starting quarterback, then odds are he'll push himself harder than a guy content to be a backup. On the other hand, I don't want Kolb treating Manuel the way Flutie treated Rob Johnson. But nothing in Kolb's quote leads me to believe that will be an issue. All this being said, I don't think that either Kolb or Manuel is the long-term answer at quarterback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marv's Neighbor Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 Used to work with a guy who called his wife PAM. That wasn't her name, but it was an acronym for P*ss and Moan! That reminds me of Jaworski can't remember him ever saying anything positive about the BILLS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 Used to work with a guy who called his wife PAM. That wasn't her name, but it was an acronym for P*ss and Moan! That reminds me of Jaworski can't remember him ever saying anything positive about the BILLS. I like him as an analyst but I can't speak to Ron Jaworski the person. I find it interesting that they named a stadium in Lackawanna Ron Jaworski Stadium. And then a few years later, stripped it of the name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris heff Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 ********* “I don’t buy what’s being sold I guess,” said Kolb. “I just listen to what they tell me to do and roll on with it. I have a lot of confidence in my abilities and this offense and hopefully what I can do in it.” ********* Copy and paste worked for me. Maybe that's because I'm on a Mac. I have no problem with that quote. If Kolb's goal is to prove to the coaching staff that he's the long-term answer at starting quarterback, then odds are he'll push himself harder than a guy content to be a backup. On the other hand, I don't want Kolb treating Manuel the way Flutie treated Rob Johnson. But nothing in Kolb's quote leads me to believe that will be an issue. All this being said, I don't think that either Kolb or Manuel is the long-term answer at quarterback. I am using an iPad, same operating system as a Mac. You missed the point, John C said Kolb knew his place as maybe a temporary starter and eventual back up. I said based on that quote he did not know. What exactly about Manuel's NFL career has led you to conclude he can't play? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 Hate to say it, but Kolb likely turned out to be the their "Rob Johnson". A guy with the tools but lacking in being too slow of a decision maker. Just yet another QB who holds the ball too long and is afraid to throw into tight coverage. This is what I'm wondering. I had the Cardinals vs Bills game from last year on Tivo still so I watched it a few weeks back. Kolb made a few really nice throws. But he was under siege most of the time. I had a hard time determining if he really didn't have time, or was holding onto it too long. Looked to me more like on most plays he had no chance to do anything. Will be fun to see what he does in preseason. In the Cardinals vs. Bills game, of the 4 QBs who took snaps, Fitz looked by far the best for whatever that's worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 (edited) Jaws had a long but not too distinguished career. He was a decent qb but nothing special. What he now does very well and is acknowledged by many people in the business is break down game tapes and evaluate players. His specialty is breaking down the play of the qbs by watching the video. From what I have observed over a number of years of watching his commentary on players is that he knows what he is talking about. He has no agenda or team loyalties when evaluating players. He gives his opinion and he demonstrates the point he is making regarding the play of players by showing the video. In my view he knows what he is talking about. Another person I have a high regard for in evaluating players and prospects is Greg Cosell. He, as is Jaws, is a video junkie who bases his opinions on what he sees and not what others are saying. Well let me ask you this. Here's Jaws QB ranking from last year. Do you agree with it? BTW I think Cosell really knows what he's talking about. Jaws, I think he can see the trees (break down a play) really well. But he has trouble seeing the forest (the totality of how a player contributes to a team) Jaws' QB Countdown Series Rankings No. 30 Tim Tebow New York Jets No. 29 Blaine Gabbert Jacksonville Jaguars No. 28 Christian Ponder Minnesota Vikings No. 27 Matt Flynn Seattle Seahawks No. 26 Matt Moore Miami Dolphins No. 25 Kevin Kolb Arizona Cardinals No. 24 Ryan Fitzpatrick Buffalo Bills No. 23 Mark Sanchez New York Jets No. 22 Matt Cassel Kansas City Chiefs No. 21 Carson Palmer Oakland Raiders No. 20 Sam Bradford St. Louis Rams No. 19 Andy Dalton Cincinnati Bengals No. 18 Matt Hasselbeck Tennessee Titans No. 17 Josh Freeman Tampa Bay Buccaneers No. 16 Alex Smith San Francisco 49ers No. 15 Cam Newton Carolina Panthers No. 14 Matthew Stafford Detroit Lions No. 13 Matt Schaub Houston Texans No. 12 Michael Vick Philadelphia Eagles No. 11 Matt Ryan Atlanta Falcons No. 10 Tony Romo Dallas Cowboys No. 9 Joe Flacco Baltimore Ravens No. 8 Jay Cutler Chicago Bears No. 7 Philip Rivers San Diego Chargers No. 6 Ben Roethlisberger Pittsburgh Steelers No. 5 Eli Manning New York Giants No. 4 Peyton Manning Denver Broncos No. 3 Tom Brady New England Patriots No. 2 Drew Brees New Orleans Saints No. 1 Aaron Rodgers Green Bay Packers I think the bottom line is it's not too difficult to evaluate a guy's toolbox - what he can see, can he make all the throws, his technique. But his contribution to the team, his ability to actually play when the whistle blows, is harder to evaluate. That's what I meant by saying it's "horseradish and hossenpfeffer". Edited July 8, 2013 by Hopeful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 I like him as an analyst but I can't speak to Ron Jaworski the person. I find it interesting that they named a stadium in Lackawanna Ron Jaworski Stadium. And then a few years later, stripped it of the name. I don't think that there were negative reasons for the name change of the stadium.The city council wanted to honor Veterans with the name change. Jaws now lives in the Philly area and is very involved in that community. He still visits his home town and participates in charitable endeavors (golfing). I have never heard anyone say anything bad about RJ. Although he is a very successful person in a high visibility profession I never got the sense that he was anything but a well-grounded person who never forgot where he came from. (At least that is my perception of him}. http://m.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Journal/Issues/2001/01/20010115/Other-News/Faces.aspx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbosrrgood Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 (edited) http://espnmediazone...countdown/#kolb Interestingly Titans signed our backup QB and their starting QB is rated #31, below Kolb. Whoa! We finally have a top 30 QB! I smell a SUPER BOWL! On a side note, I thought this ranking was well done and mostly agree with what was said. Edited July 8, 2013 by Turbosrrgood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 ********* All this being said, I don't think that either Kolb or Manuel is the long-term answer at quarterback. Why don't you think that Manuel can be the long-term qb? He has the physical tools and most reports indicate that he is a smart and mature person. Without a doubt no one knows for sure until he actually plays. Usually it takes time to become an accomplished qb but it doesn't take much time to get a sense as to whether he can handle the position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 I don't trust that Kolb knows his role. Kolb - in his mind - believes he is a starter in the NFL; not a back-up. Unfortunately, every chance he's had to prove it, he's failed. Miserably. Guess who else has always played behind a horrible O-liine ... Ben Roethlisberger. That Super Bowl champion guy. Don't give me excuses. Give me results. EJ needs to start from day one. And if Kolb pulls any Flutie crap (dividing the locker room) then he should be cut the first day he pulls it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbosrrgood Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 (edited) I don't trust that Kolb knows his role. Kolb - in his mind - believes he is a starter in the NFL; not a back-up. Unfortunately, every chance he's had to prove it, he's failed. Miserably. Guess who else has always played behind a horrible O-liine ... Ben Roethlisberger. That Super Bowl champion guy. Don't give me excuses. Give me results. EJ needs to start from day one. And if Kolb pulls any Flutie crap (dividing the locker room) then he should be cut the first day he pulls it. Dude what are you talking about, did you miss it!?!? For the first time in years the Bills have a top 30 NFL QB! It's also quite clear from the success in mini camp that our defense has gone from worst to best in the NFL. Top 30 QB + best NFL defense in history = SUPER BOWL!!!!! Edited July 8, 2013 by Turbosrrgood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 So... Fitz is rated higher than Kolb... and Kolb is projected to beat EJ out for starting job.... DoooOOOOoooOOOOOoooooOOMMMM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts