Progressives tout California Health care "success"

[IDBillzFan]

um, the aca is the law. it's not likely going anywhere soon.

 

You're right. Once the WH delayed the employer mandate, ACA is absolutely NOT going anywhere. It's stuck in perpetual incompetence.

 

At least the unions are still backing it.

 

No, wait...

[B-Man]

The Obama administration will go down with the ship

 

CARNEY: Suggestion Obamacare reduces full-time hiring 'belied by facts'...

 

 

 

 

SURVEY: 74% of small businesses will fire workers, cut hours...

 

Despite the administration's controversial decision to delay forcing companies to join Obamacare for a year, three-quarters of small businesses are still making plans to duck the costly law by firing workers, reducing hours of full-time staff, or shift many to part-time, according to a sobering survey released by the U.S. Chamber of Commerce.

 

"Small businesses expect the requirement to negatively impact their employees. Twenty-seven percent say they will cut hours to reduce full time employees, 24 percent will reduce hiring, and 23 percent plan to replace full time employees with part-time workers to avoid triggering the mandate," said the Chamber business survey provided to Secrets.

 

Under Obamacare, just 30 hours — not the nationally recognized 40 hours — is considered full-time. Companies with 50 full-time workers or more are required to provide health care, or pay a fine.

 

The administration recently decided to wait a year before businesses had to comply, but many are trying to get ready anyway. The president did not delay the mandate that Americans must have health insurance or pay a fine, however.

 

The Chamber's second quarter small business survey found that just 30 percent are ready for the law and even understand what is required.

 

Dealing with Obamacare is the biggest worry of small businesses and comes as they continue to see a sluggish economy which has already put a brake on their hiring. Just 17 percent reported adding employees in the past two years. And only one-in-five small business owners believe that they will add employees in the next two years.

[birdog1960]

You're right. Once the WH delayed the employer mandate, ACA is absolutely NOT going anywhere. It's stuck in perpetual incompetence.

 

At least the unions are still backing it.

 

No, wait...

geez, that's a real knee slapper....it's the law. it's already changed health care appreciably. it will continue to change health care, fundamentally. health care comprises about 17% of the us economy. i'd say "draw your own conclusions" but undoubtedly you'd arrive at invalid ones like it will be rescinded.

 

The Obama administration will go down with the ship

 

CARNEY: Suggestion Obamacare reduces full-time hiring 'belied by facts'...

wow, what a surprise! small employers not wanting to pay for health insurance for employees. who would have imagined that? it's not like anyone has ever seen that before. fortunately, there's an easier solution. it's called single payer.

[IDBillzFan]

geez, that's a real knee slapper....it's the law. it's already changed health care appreciably. it will continue to change health care, fundamentally. health care comprises about 17% of the us economy. i'd say "draw your own conclusions" but undoubtedly you'd arrive at invalid ones like it will be rescinded.

 

Like I said, when you pick a lost cause, you really stick to it. It's impossible to imagine how anyone who has ever supported this law can see what it is, what it does, and how it being managed and even remotely think helping even a single person is worth the massive amount of idiocy and embarrassment it rolls out daily.

 

But you still think the Trayvon Martin case was a case of racism, so who knows what makes that little gerbil run circles so fast in that special little noggin of yours.

[B-Man]

wow, what a surprise! small employers not wanting to pay for health insurance for employees. who would have imagined that? it's not like anyone has ever seen that before.

 

fortunately, there's an easier solution. it's called single payer.

 

But that's not the law.

 

As you pointed out , ACA is.

 

and its causing America to be a part-time work force.

 

But your "fake surprise"...........points out the shallowness of your position quite well.....thanks

 

 

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Edited July 17, 2013 by B-Man

[3rdnlng]

 

 

Like I said, when you pick a lost cause, you really stick to it. It's impossible to imagine how anyone who has ever supported this law can see what it is, what it does, and how it being managed and even remotely think helping even a single person is worth the massive amount of idiocy and embarrassment it rolls out daily.

 

But you still think the Trayvon Martin case was a case of racism, so who knows what makes that little gerbil run circles so fast in that special little noggin of yours.

 

Birdog is still thinking GZ called TM a !@#$ing coon, got out of his vehicle and chased him down, before executing him like the dog he was.

[DC Tom]

let's define relevant. 1 person is not politically relevant unless that person is trayvon martin or george zimmerman. 1 person without health insurance that cannot afford necessary care is morally relevant. but it's not politically feasible to craft legislation around that 1 person. so, yes 1 person is morally relevant but 100000 are politically relevant.

 

Really principled position you're taking there.

[3rdnlng]

 

 

Really principled position you're taking there.

I noticed that too, but I can only be the voice of reason in a select few threads at a time.

[Alaska Darin]

Yes, of course. If even one person is taken care of, then it's necessary and bugger all else. Perfectly sound reasoning of the sort that got us this piece of **** legislation to begin with.

The only thing that exceeds liberal passion is liberal stupidity.

[birdog1960]

Really principled position you're taking there.

unsurprising that you can't appreciate nuance. if it's not black or white it doesn't exist. while i don't believe in moral relativism, i certainly believe that relativism is a political necessity. the entire system is based on relativism.

 

and i made no comment on the outcome of the fla trial. i merely pointed out that there are few private individuals that have the ability to influence political policy. i actually believe that the trial was fair, the outcome appropriate but the circumstances tragic. the tragedy continues with people on both sided attempting to advance their agendas over this horrible incident.

[Doc]

geez, that's a real knee slapper....it's the law. it's already changed health care appreciably. it will continue to change health care, fundamentally. health care comprises about 17% of the us economy. i'd say "draw your own conclusions" but undoubtedly you'd arrive at invalid ones like it will be rescinded.

 

wow, what a surprise! small employers not wanting to pay for health insurance for employees. who would have imagined that? it's not like anyone has ever seen that before. fortunately, there's an easier solution. it's called single payer.

Give up the single payer ghost. It's not happening anytime soon. And as for the dig at small employers, you should instead be directing your disdain at the leaders you choose to follow, who crafted such a ****ty law which allowed for people and businesses to game the system. And this time you cannot blame Republicans for it. Well, you'll try, but...

[Jauronimo]

Give up the single payer ghost. It's not happening anytime soon. And as for the dig at small employers, you should instead be directing your disdain at the leaders you choose to follow, who crafted such a ****ty law which allowed for people and businesses to game the system. And this time you cannot blame Republicans for it. Well, you'll try, but...

I wouldn't call laying off workers and cutting hours, gaming the system. Its the market response to higher costs imposed by our government. All anger should be directed at our politicians who failed to recognize the obvious, that business owners aren't simply going to take it on the chin due to the Obama administration's good intentions. There was always going to be a response to the ACA. Getting below the 50 employee mark and cutting hours to get below the full time mark may seem cheeky, but if no such loopholes existed there still would have been a response in the form of layoffs.

 

I'm sure the Obama admin will demonize the private sector rather than take responsibility for their total lack of foresight. Greedy business owners will be blamed for the failure of the ACA. The simple economics of the matter, that the working man was always going to flip the bill for the ACA, one way or another, will be ignored.

[TakeYouToTasker]

Give up the single payer ghost. It's not happening anytime soon. And as for the dig at small employers, you should instead be directing your disdain at the leaders you choose to follow, who crafted such a ****ty law which allowed for people and businesses to game the system. And this time you cannot blame Republicans for it. Well, you'll try, but...

Responding to the most fundamental and basic laws of economics and the human decision making process is not gaming the system. Any system put in place that doesn't account for these things is broken.

[DC Tom]

unsurprising that you can't appreciate nuance. if it's not black or white it doesn't exist. while i don't believe in moral relativism, i certainly believe that relativism is a political necessity. the entire system is based on relativism.

 

Principles ARE black and white. You have them or you don't.

 

And your "relativism" is a half-assed job at justifying your so-called principles by a false distinction of "moral" and "political" principles. You've just shown you'll compromise one for the other. Which is the primary reason you support this half-assed ineffective legislation.

[B-Large]

geez, that's a real knee slapper....it's the law. it's already changed health care appreciably. it will continue to change health care, fundamentally. health care comprises about 17% of the us economy. i'd say "draw your own conclusions" but undoubtedly you'd arrive at invalid ones like it will be rescinded.

 

wow, what a surprise! small employers not wanting to pay for health insurance for employees. who would have imagined that? it's not like anyone has ever seen that before. fortunately, there's an easier solution. it's called single payer.

 

I don't get why they don't just kill the employer mandate... there is simply no reason for it to be there anyway, since the law essentially guarantees an individuals ability to obtain coverage, in fact, mandates it. Business that are doing well and need people may offer a commercial group plan or devise a plan of their own to attract workers.... companies that are doing poorly can tell employers to go to their State's exchange and buy their own coverage, and if they are lower to mid tier wage workers they will get a tax refund to buy that insurance anyway. Really, the mandate hurts workers because companies will want to offer an excellent package of benfits incuding group insurance, therefore compete for higher skilled, better qualified staffing- aka ****ty businesses will need to get the act together to survive.

 

One of the goals (not the goal as a posted a while back incorrectly- don't post while drinking, lol) of the ACA IMHO was to break the employer based insurance system... Compaines just starting out can be more nimble because they can't afford a group plan because they are reinvesting back into their business, but when when they are successful and stable, they have the option to take care of employee and extend beneifts, or give a stipend for employees to use ont he Exchanges.

 

It really doesn't make alot of sense when you think about it.

[IDBillzFan]

I don't get why they don't just kill the employer mandate...

 

Because the minute any employer can unload its health care plan with the knowledge that employees have to get their own cheap coverage, they're going to do it. My little company has five full-time employees who get full coverage for them and their entire family. I do this because my competitors don't, but the minute the employees can get a cheap plan through the state, I will shut my plan down and put the $70,000 toward something else.

[Jauronimo]

Because the minute any employer can unload its health care plan with the knowledge that employees have to get their own cheap coverage, they're going to do it. My little company has five full-time employees who get full coverage for them and their entire family. I do this because my competitors don't, but the minute the employees can get a cheap plan through the state, I will shut my plan down and put the $70,000 toward something else.

You should be ashamed. That sentiment right there is why we desperately need to pass prop 10-289 to ensure the greed of a few does not come at the expense of the good of the public.

Edited July 17, 2013 by Jauronimo

[B-Large]

Because the minute any employer can unload its health care plan with the knowledge that employees have to get their own cheap coverage, they're going to do it. My little company has five full-time employees who get full coverage for them and their entire family. I do this because my competitors don't, but the minute the employees can get a cheap plan through the state, I will shut my plan down and put the $70,000 toward something else.

 

Is that a bad thing? Doesn't that represent less uncertainty for your business, dealing with Heathcare plans and other admin BS?

[birdog1960]

Is that a bad thing? Doesn't that represent less uncertainty for your business, dealing with Heathcare plans and other admin BS?

no, it's not a bad thing. but it would likely lead to single payer since as you say, employer sponsored plans would disappear rapidly and this is curently the source for most private insurance. i suspect that's why it's in the bill. be interesting to see which special interest groups had a hand in writing that part of the bill.

[/dev/null]

I think the best way for Progressivs to tout California's success and comeback is for them all to move to California and show us how right they are. Then they could be extra smug when they say "I told you so". Their health care is so much better that their farts don't stink in California.

 

Meanwhile the rest of us get on with reality