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E.J. Manuel - QB - Florida State

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Ramius All Pro

Ramius

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Wow! Good read... :thumbsup:

 

NFL comparison - Colin Kaepernick...That's a strong endorsement... B-)

 

I'll agree with everything in that article, pros and cons. Well written, and a great summary, both positive and negative, of EJ. As i've said all along, *I* think all of his are coachable and correctable at the next level. He'll have to stop doing the patented "EJ Spin" when he gets into trouble however. Sometimes, when facing pressure, he'll spin out of the pocket instead of sprinting out. It's gotten him into some trouble here (and also some excellent results), but in the NFL, you can't afford to spin and take your eyes away from downfield while leaving the pocket.

 

And he's gotta get past his inconsistency. My girlfriend is against the Bills drafting EJ, because, as she put it, "I've listened to you yell at EJ for 2 years on saturday, i don't want to hear you yelling him on sunday now for the next few years." :)

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KOKBILLS All Pro

KOKBILLS

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I'll agree with everything in that article, pros and cons. Well written, and a great summary, both positive and negative, of EJ. As i've said all along, *I* think all of his are coachable and correctable at the next level. He'll have to stop doing the patented "EJ Spin" when he gets into trouble however. Sometimes, when facing pressure, he'll spin out of the pocket instead of sprinting out. It's gotten him into some trouble here (and also some excellent results), but in the NFL, you can't afford to spin and take your eyes away from downfield while leaving the pocket.

 

And he's gotta get past his inconsistency. My girlfriend is against the Bills drafting EJ, because, as she put it, "I've listened to you yell at EJ for 2 years on saturday, i don't want to hear you yelling him on sunday now for the next few years." :)

 

Well...I'm not sure if this is good or bad, but I do hope we all get the opportunity to yell at EJ the next few years... ;)

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San Jose Bills Fan Hall of Famer

San Jose Bills Fan

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ESPN Insider features a QB Ranking by Ron Jaworski.

 

Here's the link although it's subscriber only: http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9151068/2013-nfl-draft-ron-jaworski-ranks-top-quarterbacks-draft

 

Here's his rankings:

 

1) Geno Smith

2) Ryan Nassib

3) EJ Manuel

4) Landry Jones

5) Mike Glennon

6) Matt Barkley

7) Tyler Wilson

8) Tyler Bray

 

Also in ESPN Insider, Scout's Inc gave their ranking of the QBs:

 

1) Geno Smith

2) Matt Barkley

3) Tyler Wilson

4) Ryan Nassib

5) Landry Jones

6) EJ Manuel

7) Mike Glennon

8) Tyler Bray

9) Matt Scott

10) Zach Dysert

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Bills4 UDFA

Bills4

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I have alot of respect for Jaws and Cosells opinions. Jaws has Nassib at #2, and Cosell has Nassib above Geno. With Nassibs 4 years of experience under Marrone and Hackett, my view is that Nassib is the best pick for the Bills. Ive mentioned this in other posts, but that 4 years of experience working with the current coaches goes along way in communication, play calling, and knowing Nassibs strenghts and weaknesses to harness or develop. I also like Nassibs record of come from behind and overtime wins. Shows leadership ability and desire to win. Whereas, Geno hung it up in the games WVU was down.

 

Do I think any of these guys are the new face of the franchise? No.Do I think Nassib is our best option? Yes.

 

Do I think EJ Manuell is an awesome athlete with alot of talent? Yes. Do I see him starting for any team in the NFL? No.

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Dibs

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ESPN Insider features a QB Ranking by Ron Jaworski.

 

Here's the link although it's subscriber only: http://insider.espn....rterbacks-draft

 

Here's his rankings:

 

1) Geno Smith

2) Ryan Nassib

3) EJ Manuel

4) Landry Jones

5) Mike Glennon

6) Matt Barkley

7) Tyler Wilson

8) Tyler Bray

 

Also in ESPN Insider, Scout's Inc gave their ranking of the QBs:

 

1) Geno Smith

2) Matt Barkley

3) Tyler Wilson

4) Ryan Nassib

5) Landry Jones

6) EJ Manuel

7) Mike Glennon

8) Tyler Bray

9) Matt Scott

10) Zach Dysert

 

Do they give them some sort of numerical score or anything similar?

 

A ranking means little if they class all(or even some) of the QBs to be of very similar skill level.

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San Jose Bills Fan Hall of Famer

San Jose Bills Fan

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Do they give them some sort of numerical score or anything similar?

 

A ranking means little if they class all(or even some) of the QBs to be of very similar skill level.

 

Jaworski doesn't grade them. He only comments.

 

BTW, my sense from having watched all of these QBs is that Jaws hasn't really done all of his film study yet. Anyways, here are some of his remarks:

 

1. Geno Smith, West Virginia

As I mentioned in my earlier examination of the best available QBs this offseason, I go back to when I saw him play at the Orange Bowl in 2012. Watching him at practice, in production meetings and in the game itself, I liked what I saw. When I broke him down on tape in the game, I saw even more to like. I project him to be a solid starter in the NFL and certainly the No. 1 quarterback off the board at the draft.

Smith is not without flaws. I was concerned about some of the inaccurate throws I've seen him make -- particularly on deep balls -- and wanted to see a more consistent throwing slot. But I thought he answered some of those questions at his pro day. He has made beneficial adjustments. I left there feeling a lot better about him as a prospect.

He made all the throws, and the ball came out of his hand with good velocity and spin. Although he has a strong arm and is a powerful thrower, he also can throw with touch. As I tick off all the attributes of a successful NFL quarterback, Smith has the most checks in the plus column among this draft class.

2. Ryan Nassib, Syracuse

The more I watched Nassib, the more I liked him. On the positive side, he has shown a good strong arm and can make touch throws. On the negative, he has lacked consistency on corner routes and deeper routes and has struggled with accuracy.

Mechanically, he's very good. I like his quick stroke. Even with a little load, he gets the ball out fast and secures the ball well when he gets it in his hands. Those might seem like little things, but in the NFL all the little things are amplified and can be the difference between success and failure.

There's also a scheme element that I like. Yes, Nassib is coming from a spread offense, but most of the passing concepts used by Doug Marrone's offense project well in the NFL. At a minimum, Nassib will fit well with the Buffalo Bills. Just saying…

3. EJ Manuel, Florida State

ncf_a_manuel_d1_200.jpg

AP Photo/Don KellyEJ Manuel could be taken in the first round.

I'll be honest, when I first started watching Manuel on film, I didn't really like him. Then, last week, when I broke him down a little more, he reminded me of another notable recent prospect: Colin Kaepernick.

With Kaepernick, I went back and forth a lot. Same thing here. I don't like a lot of the negatives I see with Manuel -- too many misreads, too many throws into coverage -- but if you speak to NFL scouts and coaches, they'll tell you that when it comes to projecting prospects, it's more important to see the high end of the talent spectrum than to focus on mistakes. Once you know a QB is capable of making the great plays, you can spend time on eliminating the mistakes. It's easier to erase flaws than to teach greatness.

The more I study Manuel, the more I see all those great plays. He can move in the pocket, using great footwork, and he can run it. He has plenty of arm strength and can fit the ball into windows. I'm certain there will be teams that see him and think he fits exactly what they want to do with the ball. If some team wants a versatile, mobile "new era" QB, Manuel could be the guy in this class. I could see some teams slotting him No. 1 on their boards. At a minimum, I think we'll see a team trade up into the back end of Round 1 to select him.

4. Landry Jones, Oklahoma

This might surprise some people, but when I watch Jones, I really like his mechanics. Some guys are just pretty passers. Take former NFL star Warren Moon. He looked good in the pocket and threw a really nice ball. Jones is similarly a fluid passer. He makes all the throws and shows good balance in the pocket. If there's a blemish, I think it's that he missed far too many open receivers.

But to me, the good outweighs the bad. He has good eyes and can throw to his left as well as his right. He has good, not great, mobility. I think he'll be a good pro.

5. Mike Glennon, NC State

The first thing that stands out about Glennon is his size (6-foot-7). But when you watch him, he looks really comfortable under center, and you can't say that about too many college QBs these days. What's more, he has a good quick stroke and delivers the ball with no false movements. Sometimes the tall guys get a little off balance when they move, but Glennon is not a long strider for a tall guy. He's another player who grew on me the more I watched him.

On the downside, I thought he could become confused by coverage, and he held on to the ball when he could have gotten rid of it. I also didn't see as many NFL throws as I'd like to see considering all I hear about the arm strength. I've heard comparisons to Joe Flacco in terms of his arm, and I can tell you, it's not even close. Flacco could throw those sideline routes as well as anyone. When I see those same throws from Glennon, he's just not in Flacco's category right now. That corner route, the deep out, those are difficult throws to make. You could make it as a touch pass over the safety or linebacker or as a line drive. It's tough, but a guy such as Flacco can make them. I don't see those same throws from Glennon. That said, although he might not be Flacco, I still think Glennon will be a solid NFL player.

6. Matt Barkley, USC

I like Barkley, really. And it's to his credit that he already has performed well in a lot of big football games. Among this group, he might be the most mentally ready to succeed in the NFL from day one. But when push comes to shove, I think he needs to find himself in the right system because I'm not sold on significant upside.

Think about this: In 2012, the Trojans had some of the best, most dynamic receivers in the college game, Marqise Lee and Robert Woods. USC also had very good tight ends. And they had Barkley, a four-year starter. Yet for all of those assets, the USC coaches didn't build an offense around the passing game in 2012. That makes me scratch my head a little bit. Was it the coaching, or a trust factor in the QB?

Then there are the physical concerns. When I see Barkley throw, I don't see enough drive on the ball. I don't see him snapping off throws. I thought he often pushed the ball rather than get that good wrist snap that generates velocity and a tight spiral. I also didn't see him driving off his back leg on throws. He threw the fade well and had some nice deep posts, but I didn't see him making a lot of NFL throws despite an NFL-caliber receiving corps in a pro-style offense under Lane Kiffin.

I think Barkley is capable of having a very long NFL career. But I don't consider him one of the top QB prospects in this draft class.

7. Tyler Wilson, Arkansas

When his No. 1 receiving option was open, Wilson was solid. When he wasn't open? Well, that's when the flaws started to surface.

I don't think Wilson saw the field very clearly last year. Part of that could have been a byproduct of the turbulent situation in Arkansas, new coaching and a bunch of new targets. But when plays didn't shape up as they were supposed to, his reads and his mechanics started to break down.

Wilson is a bit of a long strider, and when he gets out over his front foot too much, his ball starts to lose energy. He also has a habit of dropping into a sidearm throwing motion too often. I know that sometimes you have to deliver the ball from an awkward platform, but Wilson was dropping down even when defenders weren't in his face.

Overall, I thought he had decent mechanics with a quick stroke and good ball position at delivery, but, when he held on to the football, he seemed to lose focus and his mechanics started to break down. He then showed slow feet; I didn't think he ran very well outside the pocket. I'd have concerns about Wilson at the next level. There are flags here.

8. Tyler Bray, Tennessee

Bray is a big, strong guy who stands tall in the pocket … but my advice would have been to stay at Tennessee another year.

When you look at the film, you can see some good attributes, but he is really raw. His mechanics … let's say that if you draft him, you're going to need to spend some time with him.

I look at him and worry I'll see some of the things I saw from Blaine Gabbert when he got to Jacksonville. I thought he should have stayed in college and gotten more seasoning, and I feel the same about Bray. Yes, you can see the ability and athleticism, but he is a very raw prospect who needs much more experience. In the NFL, I don't think he'll get that experience in games for a little while.

 

 

Do they give them some sort of numerical score or anything similar?

 

A ranking means little if they class all(or even some) of the QBs to be of very similar skill level.

 

Scouts Inc:

 

 

 

POS RANKin.gif OVR RANKin.gifGeno Smith QB 6'2⅜" 218 West Virginia 91 1 20 Matt Barkley QB 6'2½" 227 USC 89 2 32 Ryan Nassib QB 6'2⅛" 227 Syracuse 83 3 53 Tyler Wilson QB 6'2⅛" 215 Arkansas 82 4 57 EJ Manuel QB 6'4⅝" 237 Florida State 78 5 73 Mike Glennon QB 6'7⅛" 225 North Carolina State 77 6 81 Landry Jones QB 6'4⅛" 225 Oklahoma 76 7 87 Tyler Bray QB 6'6⅛" 232 Tennessee 74 8 93 Matt Scott QB 6'2⅛" 213 Arizona 68 9 125 Zac Dysert QB 6'2⅞" 231 Miami (OH) 62 10 144

 

The three numbers after the players' college are:

 

1) Draft Grade

2) Position Rank

3) Overall Rank

 

So Geno Smith is scored a 91point player and is the top ranked QB and 20th ranked player.

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KOKBILLS All Pro

KOKBILLS

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Jaworski doesn't grade them. He only comments.

 

BTW, my sense from having watched all of these QBs is that Jaws hasn't really done all of his film study yet. Anyways, here are some of his remarks:

 

 

1. Geno Smith, West Virginia

As I mentioned in my earlier examination of the best available QBs this offseason, I go back to when I saw him play at the Orange Bowl in 2012. Watching him at practice, in production meetings and in the game itself, I liked what I saw. When I broke him down on tape in the game, I saw even more to like. I project him to be a solid starter in the NFL and certainly the No. 1 quarterback off the board at the draft.

Smith is not without flaws. I was concerned about some of the inaccurate throws I've seen him make -- particularly on deep balls -- and wanted to see a more consistent throwing slot. But I thought he answered some of those questions at his pro day. He has made beneficial adjustments. I left there feeling a lot better about him as a prospect.

He made all the throws, and the ball came out of his hand with good velocity and spin. Although he has a strong arm and is a powerful thrower, he also can throw with touch. As I tick off all the attributes of a successful NFL quarterback, Smith has the most checks in the plus column among this draft class.

2. Ryan Nassib, Syracuse

The more I watched Nassib, the more I liked him. On the positive side, he has shown a good strong arm and can make touch throws. On the negative, he has lacked consistency on corner routes and deeper routes and has struggled with accuracy.

Mechanically, he's very good. I like his quick stroke. Even with a little load, he gets the ball out fast and secures the ball well when he gets it in his hands. Those might seem like little things, but in the NFL all the little things are amplified and can be the difference between success and failure.

There's also a scheme element that I like. Yes, Nassib is coming from a spread offense, but most of the passing concepts used by Doug Marrone's offense project well in the NFL. At a minimum, Nassib will fit well with the Buffalo Bills. Just saying…

3. EJ Manuel, Florida State

 

ncf_a_manuel_d1_200.jpg

AP Photo/Don KellyEJ Manuel could be taken in the first round.

 

 

I'll be honest, when I first started watching Manuel on film, I didn't really like him. Then, last week, when I broke him down a little more, he reminded me of another notable recent prospect: Colin Kaepernick.

With Kaepernick, I went back and forth a lot. Same thing here. I don't like a lot of the negatives I see with Manuel -- too many misreads, too many throws into coverage -- but if you speak to NFL scouts and coaches, they'll tell you that when it comes to projecting prospects, it's more important to see the high end of the talent spectrum than to focus on mistakes. Once you know a QB is capable of making the great plays, you can spend time on eliminating the mistakes. It's easier to erase flaws than to teach greatness.

The more I study Manuel, the more I see all those great plays. He can move in the pocket, using great footwork, and he can run it. He has plenty of arm strength and can fit the ball into windows. I'm certain there will be teams that see him and think he fits exactly what they want to do with the ball. If some team wants a versatile, mobile "new era" QB, Manuel could be the guy in this class. I could see some teams slotting him No. 1 on their boards. At a minimum, I think we'll see a team trade up into the back end of Round 1 to select him.

4. Landry Jones, Oklahoma

This might surprise some people, but when I watch Jones, I really like his mechanics. Some guys are just pretty passers. Take former NFL star Warren Moon. He looked good in the pocket and threw a really nice ball. Jones is similarly a fluid passer. He makes all the throws and shows good balance in the pocket. If there's a blemish, I think it's that he missed far too many open receivers.

But to me, the good outweighs the bad. He has good eyes and can throw to his left as well as his right. He has good, not great, mobility. I think he'll be a good pro.

5. Mike Glennon, NC State

The first thing that stands out about Glennon is his size (6-foot-7). But when you watch him, he looks really comfortable under center, and you can't say that about too many college QBs these days. What's more, he has a good quick stroke and delivers the ball with no false movements. Sometimes the tall guys get a little off balance when they move, but Glennon is not a long strider for a tall guy. He's another player who grew on me the more I watched him.

On the downside, I thought he could become confused by coverage, and he held on to the ball when he could have gotten rid of it. I also didn't see as many NFL throws as I'd like to see considering all I hear about the arm strength. I've heard comparisons to Joe Flacco in terms of his arm, and I can tell you, it's not even close. Flacco could throw those sideline routes as well as anyone. When I see those same throws from Glennon, he's just not in Flacco's category right now. That corner route, the deep out, those are difficult throws to make. You could make it as a touch pass over the safety or linebacker or as a line drive. It's tough, but a guy such as Flacco can make them. I don't see those same throws from Glennon. That said, although he might not be Flacco, I still think Glennon will be a solid NFL player.

6. Matt Barkley, USC

I like Barkley, really. And it's to his credit that he already has performed well in a lot of big football games. Among this group, he might be the most mentally ready to succeed in the NFL from day one. But when push comes to shove, I think he needs to find himself in the right system because I'm not sold on significant upside.

Think about this: In 2012, the Trojans had some of the best, most dynamic receivers in the college game, Marqise Lee and Robert Woods. USC also had very good tight ends. And they had Barkley, a four-year starter. Yet for all of those assets, the USC coaches didn't build an offense around the passing game in 2012. That makes me scratch my head a little bit. Was it the coaching, or a trust factor in the QB?

Then there are the physical concerns. When I see Barkley throw, I don't see enough drive on the ball. I don't see him snapping off throws. I thought he often pushed the ball rather than get that good wrist snap that generates velocity and a tight spiral. I also didn't see him driving off his back leg on throws. He threw the fade well and had some nice deep posts, but I didn't see him making a lot of NFL throws despite an NFL-caliber receiving corps in a pro-style offense under Lane Kiffin.

I think Barkley is capable of having a very long NFL career. But I don't consider him one of the top QB prospects in this draft class.

7. Tyler Wilson, Arkansas

When his No. 1 receiving option was open, Wilson was solid. When he wasn't open? Well, that's when the flaws started to surface.

I don't think Wilson saw the field very clearly last year. Part of that could have been a byproduct of the turbulent situation in Arkansas, new coaching and a bunch of new targets. But when plays didn't shape up as they were supposed to, his reads and his mechanics started to break down.

Wilson is a bit of a long strider, and when he gets out over his front foot too much, his ball starts to lose energy. He also has a habit of dropping into a sidearm throwing motion too often. I know that sometimes you have to deliver the ball from an awkward platform, but Wilson was dropping down even when defenders weren't in his face.

Overall, I thought he had decent mechanics with a quick stroke and good ball position at delivery, but, when he held on to the football, he seemed to lose focus and his mechanics started to break down. He then showed slow feet; I didn't think he ran very well outside the pocket. I'd have concerns about Wilson at the next level. There are flags here.

8. Tyler Bray, Tennessee

Bray is a big, strong guy who stands tall in the pocket … but my advice would have been to stay at Tennessee another year.

When you look at the film, you can see some good attributes, but he is really raw. His mechanics … let's say that if you draft him, you're going to need to spend some time with him.

I look at him and worry I'll see some of the things I saw from Blaine Gabbert when he got to Jacksonville. I thought he should have stayed in college and gotten more seasoning, and I feel the same about Bray. Yes, you can see the ability and athleticism, but he is a very raw prospect who needs much more experience. In the NFL, I don't think he'll get that experience in games for a little while.

 

 

 

Scouts Inc:

 

 

 

POS RANKin.gif OVR RANKin.gifGeno Smith QB 6'2⅜" 218 West Virginia 91 1 20 Matt Barkley QB 6'2½" 227 USC 89 2 32 Ryan Nassib QB 6'2⅛" 227 Syracuse 83 3 53 Tyler Wilson QB 6'2⅛" 215 Arkansas 82 4 57 EJ Manuel QB 6'4⅝" 237 Florida State 78 5 73 Mike Glennon QB 6'7⅛" 225 North Carolina State 77 6 81 Landry Jones QB 6'4⅛" 225 Oklahoma 76 7 87 Tyler Bray QB 6'6⅛" 232 Tennessee 74 8 93 Matt Scott QB 6'2⅛" 213 Arizona 68 9 125 Zac Dysert QB 6'2⅞" 231 Miami (OH) 62 10 144

 

The three numbers after the players' college are:

 

1) Draft Grade

2) Position Rank

3) Overall Rank

 

So Geno Smith is scored a 91point player and is the top ranked QB and 20th ranked player.

 

 

Thanks for that post SJBF!!! :thumbsup:

 

That breakdown of EJ by Jaws is pretty much exactly the way I see him...And the reason why he's my favorite of this QB class...I realize EJ is not a finished product whatsoever...But...I think a year or two from now, in the right situation of course, EJ could be a star in the NFL...I feel similar about Geno, but I do think that EJ has slightly more upside...Then third I like Nassib...I simply do not believe any QB in this class can come close to EJ's upside outside of Geno...And because all these QB's have individual flaws that will be tested in their development, I'll side with the 6-5 athlete who has a very good-live arm, and endless potential...Just think what a Coach like Jim Harbaugh could do with EJ's talent...That's why I want the Bills to do everything they can to get Manual...It's certainly a leap of faith...But with this class, and the Bills depth chart, I think he's a perfect fit... B-)

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San Jose Bills Fan Hall of Famer

San Jose Bills Fan

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Thanks for that post SJBF!!! :thumbsup:

 

That breakdown of EJ by Jaws is pretty much exactly the way I see him...And the reason why he's my favorite of this QB class...I realize EJ is not a finished product whatsoever...But...I think a year or two from now, in the right situation of course, EJ could be a star in the NFL...I feel similar about Geno, but I do think that EJ has slightly more upside...Then third I like Nassib...I simply do not believe any QB in this class can come close to EJ's upside outside of Geno...And because all these QB's have individual flaws that will be tested in their development, I'll side with the 6-5 athlete who has a very good-live arm, and endless potential...Just think what a Coach like Jim Harbaugh could do with EJ's talent...That's why I want the Bills to do everything they can to get Manual...It's certainly a leap of faith...But with this class, and the Bills depth chart, I think he's a perfect fit... B-)

 

Well we sit right next to each other on the bandwagon so you know EJ's my boy too.

 

I could live with Geno and Nassib too.

 

The others I could live with depending on where they are taken.

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KOKBILLS All Pro

KOKBILLS

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Well we sit right next to each other on the bandwagon so you know EJ's my boy too.

 

I could live with Geno and Nassib too.

 

The others I could live with depending on where they are taken.

 

Exactly! I don't want to get too hyped for one or the other...Because if there is anything I have learned over these years it's that the Bills almost never take the guy I want... :lol:

 

But I do look at some of these QB's and think even though they may have some definite positives, why would you want them more than EJ? Especially if it will take the same pick to get them...If you're going to have to develop a QB, why not look to develop the guy with prototypical size and athletic ability?...We'll see...It's just hard for me to imagine an NFL GM or coach liking Nassib or Tyler Wilson more than EJ or Geno...And I realize that's JMO...None of them are perfect...So why not take the athlete with the big arm? Anyway... B-)

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Lurker All Pro

Lurker

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Well we sit right next to each other on the bandwagon so you know EJ's my boy too.

 

I could live with Geno and Nassib too.

 

The others I could live with depending on where they are taken.

Is there room on wagon? That's my order too.

 

There's something about Manuel that gives me the same vibe I had about Cordy Glenn last year. He's not a finished product or a consensus pick, but his 'raw material' is something I think is more attractive than the other, higher rated prospects.

 

With a year to sit behind Kolb and learn, he's the guy I'd like them to go after...

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KOKBILLS All Pro

KOKBILLS

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Is there room on wagon? That's my order too.

 

There's something about Manuel that gives me the same vibe I had about Cordy Glenn last year. He's not a finished product or a consensus pick, but his 'raw material' is something I think is more attractive than the other, higher rated prospects.

 

With a year to sit behind Kolb and learn, he's the guy I'd like them to go after...

 

There's plenty of room!!! :thumbsup:

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