The Poojer Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 zero argument here...but that said, if i like a band, I will argue that they are good to someone who may disagree...not necessarily to change their mind, rather to defend my stance. I pissed off a friend the other night during the 121212 concert when he said that daltreys voice sucked...i asked what show he was watching and he got his panties in a wad then backed off a bit by saying that he was never a daltrey guy...ok that's an argument i can accept, 'i didn't like daltrey tonight'...not 'daltreys voice sucked tonight'...it didn't, i don't see any argument for that, his voice sounded great...The 'Mats aren't for everyone, but I'd rather hear people say, 'eh...i am not a fan of their music, sound, etc...' it really irks me when they say they suck... I mean its not like it's country music...because everyone knows country music sucks... Good music is in the ear of the beholder. What you and jw think is good there are millions that think it's horrible. That's the beauty of music and a major award needs to go to the inventor of the headphones/earbuds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 I mean its not like it's country music...because everyone knows country music sucks... Funny coming from a guy with a Grateful Dead logo for his avatar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Poojer Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 bite your tongue!!! Funny coming from a guy with a Grateful Dead logo for his avatar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanNC Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 without Rush .... A quick google search reveals bands crediting Rush as an influence... Smashing Pumpkins, Soundgarden, Tragically Hip, Foo Fighters, Metallica, Rage Against The Machine, Pantera, Nine Inch Nails, Red Hot Chili Peppers, Tool, Primus, Muse, Opeth, Mastadon, Anthrax, Dream Theater, Wilco, Slash/GnR, Porcupine Tree, Mars Volta, Queensryche, Coheed and Cambria etc, etc, etc.... I know, I know they all suck too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 (edited) A quick google search reveals bands crediting Rush as an influence... Smashing Pumpkins, Soundgarden, Tragically Hip, Foo Fighters, Metallica, Rage Against The Machine, Pantera, Nine Inch Nails, Red Hot Chili Peppers, Tool, Primus, Muse, Opeth, Mastadon, Anthrax, Dream Theater, Wilco, Slash/GnR, Porcupine Tree, Mars Volta, Queensryche, Coheed and Cambria etc, etc, etc.... I know, I know they all suck too. i think you will hear from him on the difference between "influenced... insert band here" and "without them there would be no...insert band here" whether right or wrong, i read his comment and yours to be slightly (potentially hugely) different things. its possible im putting words in his mouth, and im not chiming in here with whether i agree, but instead trying to speak to the nature of the comments at a base level. Edited December 17, 2012 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanNC Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 i think you will hear from him on the difference between "influenced... insert band here" and "without them there would be no...insert band here" whether right or wrong, i read his comment and yours to be slightly (potentially hugely) different things. its possible im putting words in his mouth, and im not chiming in here with whether i agree, but instead trying to speak to the nature of the comments at a base level. You're right, if that's what he meant then those are two hugely different things. One of them is just an opinion (one that many people also have regarding Rush and those that followed) and the other can be easily vetted by the quotes from the bands themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philly McButterpants Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 In lowering order of influence: Without Rush, there's no: Dream Theater Porcupine Tree Tiles Spock's Beard Transatlantic there's probably a lot more, but those come to mind immediately . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrojanitor Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 In lowering order of influence: Without Rush, there's no: Dream Theater Porcupine Tree Tiles Spock's Beard Transatlantic there's probably a lot more, but those come to mind immediately . . . I don't think that list is doing your argument any favors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanNC Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 I don't think that list is doing your argument any favors Why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philly McButterpants Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 Why not? Just read your list and I completely forgot about the Mars Volta . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philly McButterpants Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 i really hope you're not making the case now that Rush is greater than the Stones. that's silly. and you're basing your knock on the Velvet Underground because they had one gold album? so. a case could be made that without the Velvet Underground there would be no Bowie, likely no New York Dolls or Ramones, or Television, perhaps the Talking Heads and Blondie. without Rush there'd be well ... the Sex Pistols were invented by a bit of a poser, who may not have actually realized what he had started -- or maybe did -- by putting together a collection of misfits who started off being more style than substance and then kind of ended up the other way by accident. perhaps where we differ is what rock and roll stands for. it's not about meeting 4 criteria. rock and roll is not for beancounters, it's for bloodletters. and to suggest that "any kid" can figure out the Ramones is blindly wrong. thousands of bands are formed each year, whether it's because of American Idol or four kids bored to tears. a lot -- a large majority of them -- fall by the wayside because they lack talent, cohesion or that simple je ne sais quois. a few make it. and a few less click so wonderfully that they transcend themselves. it wasn't easy being the Ramones. it wasn't easy being the Stones in their heyday. take a look at how many times Aerosmith have unraveled. that the Beatles lasted that long was amazing. you seem to pretend that rock and roll is as easy as paint by numbers. it's not. not even close. the ability to put words to music and make something vibrant is difficult. if it wasn't, then everybody'd be doing it. they're not. and if that's the case you continue to make for Rush, then you've truly lost me. jw Of course not. Don't be ridiculous. My point is that longevity does matter. No one doubts that the Stones are greatest RnR band ever, but their later stuff? Meh.... I dont think being the Ramones was easy. You seem to think that playing Jacobs Ladder in13/8 time was easy. It's not. I don't see a clear lineage for the VU to the New York Dolls. I've always read and heard that the NYD were the FIRST glam rock band, without whom there may not have been a Bowie, a Kiss, 80's hair metal, grunge and punk. The Dead Kennedy's, the Clash, Richard Hell and the Voidoids, Black Flag, and then the more mainstream T-Funk Heads and Blondie (vastly under-acted band) all happen with or without the SexPistols floating down the Thames. I know what your point is. Rock n Roll is leather jackets, sex, rebellion, the Beatles in Hamburg, etc. and to a certain extent, the Hall more than welcomes that. It's the Madonna's, James Taylor's and their ilk that rub me the wrong way. Yes, Genesis, Rush, and ELP were monstrously huge bands that were fathered by Sargent Pepper. To deny them recognition in the Hall because they don't fit the jingle-jangle, leather jacket, rebellion mode is silly. Music at some point has to be about music. These bands incorporated actual musicianship into the craft. Not everyone started their musical journey by picking up Strat copy and some decent headphones. Some of us started with musician parents and piano lessons and a father's massive collection of jazz albums. To hear rock played with the same intricacy, care, masterful musicianship as a Billy Cobham or Buddy Rich was indeed a revelation and a rebellion all it's own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 bite your tongue!!! Huge country influence in many of The Dead songs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 (edited) Huge country influence in many of The Dead songs Yup..without country music you don't have rock-n'roll...the Dead, as much as any "rock" band were influenced, and incorporated elements of country music into their sound...I am not a huge Dead fan (though I don't hate them at all), but the stuff of theirs I like the most is that country induced stuff. Even colored pioneers of "rock n'roll" (Chuck Berry, Fats Domino, Louis Jordan, etc) incorporated white country music into their sound... country + blues= Rock N' Roll. Edited December 20, 2012 by Buftex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Poojer Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 The country I can't stand is all this crap that came out since about Garth Brooks and forward and the cowboy country my dad listened to... Huge country influence in many of The Dead songs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanNC Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 Of course not. Don't be ridiculous. My point is that longevity does matter. No one doubts that the Stones are greatest RnR band ever, but their later stuff? Meh.... I dont think being the Ramones was easy. You seem to think that playing Jacobs Ladder in13/8 time was easy. It's not. I don't see a clear lineage for the VU to the New York Dolls. I've always read and heard that the NYD were the FIRST glam rock band, without whom there may not have been a Bowie, a Kiss, 80's hair metal, grunge and punk. The Dead Kennedy's, the Clash, Richard Hell and the Voidoids, Black Flag, and then the more mainstream T-Funk Heads and Blondie (vastly under-acted band) all happen with or without the SexPistols floating down the Thames. I know what your point is. Rock n Roll is leather jackets, sex, rebellion, the Beatles in Hamburg, etc. and to a certain extent, the Hall more than welcomes that. It's the Madonna's, James Taylor's and their ilk that rub me the wrong way. Yes, Genesis, Rush, and ELP were monstrously huge bands that were fathered by Sargent Pepper. To deny them recognition in the Hall because they don't fit the jingle-jangle, leather jacket, rebellion mode is silly. Music at some point has to be about music. These bands incorporated actual musicianship into the craft. Not everyone started their musical journey by picking up Strat copy and some decent headphones. Some of us started with musician parents and piano lessons and a father's massive collection of jazz albums. To hear rock played with the same intricacy, care, masterful musicianship as a Billy Cobham or Buddy Rich was indeed a revelation and a rebellion all it's own. Good post. It captures much of what I've been trying to say, only better. I'm not a big fan of The Smashing Pumpkins, but I think Billy Corgan puts it most succinctly in regard to Rush and their HOF worthiness: "At the end of the day, rock is a people's game, and the people have consistently and overwhelmingly voted for this band." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrojanitor Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 (edited) Why not? It's a list of nothing bands. Rush's influence extends beyond soundalikes. Focus on musicianship within a song structure (ie not a jam band), complex/intelligent lyrics, one of the bands that popularized the concept album, a true "word of mouth" band that became huge outside of the mainstream, etc etc. I would argue every good metal band in the last 30 years are influenced by Rush. You could probably extend that to punk/hardcore too. A prog band influencing lesser prog bands is fine, but their influence across many genres is what makes them HOF worthy. Edited December 20, 2012 by Astrojanitor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 The country I can't stand is all this crap that came out since about Garth Brooks and forward and the cowboy country my dad listened to... I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 (edited) The country I can't stand is all this crap that came out since about Garth Brooks and forward and the cowboy country my dad listened to... What you can't stand (I am guessing) is country pop...believe me, I love country music (or what I consider country music), and I hate that stuff too....it really has as much to do with country music as Madonna does with Rock-n'Roll. Which all goes back to the notion that categories don't work effectively, in music...unless you want to miss out on a lot of really great stuff. I love the kind of country that the Dead seemed to appreciate ("Mama Tried" Merle Haggard, "She Thinks I Still Care" George Jones, etc etc...they have covered a lot of vintage honky-tonk stuff)...but you won't find me downloading the new one from Rascal Flats or Taylor Swift... Edited December 20, 2012 by Buftex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JÂy RÛßeÒ Posted January 22, 2013 Author Share Posted January 22, 2013 Rush has announced the Spring 2013 leg of the continuation of the Clockwork Angels tour! April 23 Austin, TX @ Frank Erwin Center April 26 Ft. Lauderdale, FL @ BB&T Center April 28 Orlando, FL @ Amway Center May 1 Nashville, TN @ Bridgestone Arena May 3 Raleigh, NC @ PNC Arena May 5 Virginia Beach, VA @ Farm Bureau Live At Virginia Beach May 7 Baltimore, MD @ 1st Mariner Arena May 9 Uncasville, CT @ Mohegan Sun May 11 Atlantic City @ Etess Arena Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 Rush has announced the Spring 2013 leg of the continuation of the Clockwork Angels tour! April 23 Austin, TX @ Frank Erwin Center April 26 Ft. Lauderdale, FL @ BB&T Center April 28 Orlando, FL @ Amway Center May 1 Nashville, TN @ Bridgestone Arena May 3 Raleigh, NC @ PNC Arena May 5 Virginia Beach, VA @ Farm Bureau Live At Virginia Beach May 7 Baltimore, MD @ 1st Mariner Arena May 9 Uncasville, CT @ Mohegan Sun May 11 Atlantic City @ Etess Arena Awesome. They usually come to SPAC (Saratoga, NY) in the summer. I haven't seen them since Hold Your Fire in 1987. I think I'm due for another go around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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