Alphadawg7 Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 (edited) NFL.com Well according to ESPN, who created the stat, he is 25th. You are probably looking a QB rating...not QBR...so you are wrong about him being 18th. QB rating is a worthless stat that coaches and scouts dont even use. QBR was developed to be the new indicator to gauge how effective a QB is and its now become the main statistical category analysts, scouts, and coaches uses to determine how a QB actually plays on the field. Edited December 7, 2012 by Alphadawg7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 (edited) Well according to ESPN, who created the stat, he is 25th. You are probably looking a QB rating...not QBR...so you are wrong about him being 18th. QB rating is a worthless stat that coaches and scouts dont even use. QBR was developed to be the new indicator to gauge how effective a QB is and its now become the main statistical category analysts, scouts, and coaches uses to determine how a QB actually plays on the field. actually I F&$Ked up. It was ESPN.com. Not sure where you get your info. It says Rate, but I don't see a QBR and its ESPN. Either way. It doesn't matter. Get off your hatred for the guy and support. He's gonna be here a while. Edited December 7, 2012 by mrags Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 (edited) actually I F&$Ked up. It was ESPN.com. Not sure where you get your info. Dude...read what I wrote...you are looking at the old rating system that coaches, scouts, analysts, etc havent used forever and consider a meaningless stat as it only tracks a few stats and tracks nothing to do with effectiveness. It never ceases to amaze me how little people read of a post before they reply to it. I just explained this to you in the very post you replied to...so you made two mistakes...one it wasnt NFL.com and two you are not looking at QBR. If you are going to site QBR scores in other posts, it would probably help to know what QBR is so you can get the right stats. Try scrolling down the main stats page and clicking on the link that says QBR... Here I will help you... http://espn.go.com/nfl/qbr Edited December 7, 2012 by Alphadawg7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 I've said it many times, we could do a lot worse than Fitz. It's that kind of thinking that kept you calling your not so great ex-gf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BisonMan Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Wow. So far on this thread I've seen postings that say basically "Fitz stinks because Gailey is so great that he got Thigpen to look like a star in KC" and "Fitz would be better if Gailey wasn't such a crappy offensive coach". You can't have it both ways. By the numbers, Fitz is average. Is Gailey so good that he makes him look better than he really is or is Gailey so bad that Fitz is really a top 10-15 QB. My guess is neither. To paraphrase Bill Parcells, he is what his numbers say he is...average. I totally sick of holding a QB's win/loss record as the defining evidence of his skill level. That is complete garbage. Tom Brady is totally underrated...yes, underrated...because he is able to overcome such a lousy Patriots defense that bleeds points like a member of the Russian royal family. Mark Sanchez had a great win/loss record for a while because the Jets had an elite defense. Now he looks like a chump because their defense has waned. Going back many years, Archie Manning never took the Aints over .500 because he was surrounded by bums on both sides of the ball. I'd still take him today over all but a few QBs in this league. Given the poor play on defense by the Bills this year, Fitz has been put in "comeback" mode entirely too many times this year. The turnovers tend to come later in games when he's forced to take too many risks. Certainly some have come early to put the team in the hole (see Jets game). Overall, he still has a decent TD/INT ratio. His QBR is just below average (~47). Could the team do better? Maybe, but elite QBs don't come around often even with high draft picks. Just ask Oakland, Arizona Jacksonville, NYJ, Tennessee and several others in the past 10 years. My bottom line: Let's fix the defense and ensure we have a good set of role players on offense. Scoring 25 points a game is good enough if we had an elite defense, which is easier to build than an elite QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Dude...read what I wrote...you are looking at the old rating system that coaches, scouts, analysts, etc havent used forever and consider a meaningless stat as it only tracks a few stats and tracks nothing to do with effectiveness. It never ceases to amaze me how little people read of a post before they reply to it. I just explained this to you in the very post you replied to...so you made two mistakes...one it wasnt NFL.com and two you are not looking at QBR. If you are going to site QBR scores in other posts, it would probably help to know what QBR is so you can get the right stats. Try scrolling down the main stats page and clicking on the link that says QBR... Here I will help you... http://espn.go.com/nfl/qbr your such an Internet tough guy. Tha is for steering me on the straight and narrow. I'm so sorry I have a life and don't spend all my moments checking out "QBR" on ESPN which is just as rediculous of a stat as you saying that 9th in TDs is not measurable. Get a life dude. Hope you like Fitz more by the end of this year, your going to be with him a while. Bye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Best Player Available Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 THIS ^^^^^^^^^^ Does anyone even realize that Gailey got 18TD's (tied for 13th in the NFL) out of Thigpen in 2008 as a starter in KC? And no one here even thinks Thigpen is a good backup, let alone a starter. It should also be said that KC won just ONE game that year. People look at Ftiz's TD totals like in some other threads and try and use that as a gauge of he is good, yet totally ignore that he has the 3rd most turnovers of any QB in the NFL the last 2 years as a full time starter, has an atrocious QBR, an embarrassing win/loss record over his career, is woefully inconsistent, incredibly inaccurate, and throws one of the worst deep ball throwers of all the starting QB's. People need to start realizing that in Chans system, he will get TD production from just about any QB he trots out there and that does not prove the QB is a good QB. Every so often someone here writes a post that is almost poetic in the information it either debunks or supports. Posts like these are very rare. Alphadawg has accomplished what many other try to do, when explaining the current NFL passing game/stats. And did it very well. Congrats! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Every so often someone here writes a post that is almost poetic in the information it either debunks or supports. Posts like these are very rare. Alphadawg has accomplished what many other try to do, when explaining the current NFL passing game/stats. And did it very well. Congrats! yup. He was absolutely right. Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson probably think so also. So does a young Tom Brady against an MVP Kurt Warner, a young Ben Rapelisberger against an MVP Kurt Warner, a young and unproven Eli Manning against a 1st ballot HOF Brady. The better QB doesn't always win. It's a team sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Wow. So far on this thread I've seen postings that say basically "Fitz stinks because Gailey is so great that he got Thigpen to look like a star in KC" and "Fitz would be better if Gailey wasn't such a crappy offensive coach". You can't have it both ways. By the numbers, Fitz is average. Is Gailey so good that he makes him look better than he really is or is Gailey so bad that Fitz is really a top 10-15 QB. My guess is neither. To paraphrase Bill Parcells, he is what his numbers say he is...average. I totally sick of holding a QB's win/loss record as the defining evidence of his skill level. That is complete garbage. Tom Brady is totally underrated...yes, underrated...because he is able to overcome such a lousy Patriots defense that bleeds points like a member of the Russian royal family. Mark Sanchez had a great win/loss record for a while because the Jets had an elite defense. Now he looks like a chump because their defense has waned. Going back many years, Archie Manning never took the Aints over .500 because he was surrounded by bums on both sides of the ball. I'd still take him today over all but a few QBs in this league. Given the poor play on defense by the Bills this year, Fitz has been put in "comeback" mode entirely too many times this year. The turnovers tend to come later in games when he's forced to take too many risks. Certainly some have come early to put the team in the hole (see Jets game). Overall, he still has a decent TD/INT ratio. His QBR is just below average (~47). Could the team do better? Maybe, but elite QBs don't come around often even with high draft picks. Just ask Oakland, Arizona Jacksonville, NYJ, Tennessee and several others in the past 10 years. My bottom line: Let's fix the defense and ensure we have a good set of role players on offense. Scoring 25 points a game is good enough if we had an elite defense, which is easier to build than an elite QB. What are you saying. You love Fitz or you hate him ? Not sure if this the sarcastic smiley. because that is my intent. We have what we have. And we will improve with the draft and FA and Buddy's gems. I an surprised you have defended Ryan to some degree as most loathe him. But reality says if Bills keep adding parts and resigning good players, the chances continually to improve increases. But we still need the next QB in hand and 3 years of not developing one or two, Bills are behind the 8 ball. way behind. that in hindsight is hurting. Maybe that qb coach can whip up a special batch of long ball skills for Fitz this offseason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirate Angel Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Is there a stat for drive killing erratic throws??? fitz would be a record setter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stinky finger Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 I've said it many times, we could do a lot worse than Fitz. Is this a compliment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BisonMan Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 What are you saying. You love Fitz or you hate him ? Not sure if this the sarcastic smiley. because that is my intent. We have what we have. And we will improve with the draft and FA and Buddy's gems. I an surprised you have defended Ryan to some degree as most loathe him. But reality says if Bills keep adding parts and resigning good players, the chances continually to improve increases. But we still need the next QB in hand and 3 years of not developing one or two, Bills are behind the 8 ball. way behind. that in hindsight is hurting. Maybe that qb coach can whip up a special batch of long ball skills for Fitz this offseason I neither love nor hate him. I haven't even met him! Seriously, I think that he's is the definition of average. He's not our biggest problem given that elite QBs aren't something you can easily obtain. I don't like the odds of getting an elite QB any more than I like my odds of dumping my wife and marrying a supermodel. To be clear, I wouldn't trade her in for a supermodel but I'd be willing to share one with her. Other high quality players are more attainable because they don't have to be elite, just work together well as a team. I agree with most here that say we are unlikely to replace Fitz in the next year or even two. Even if the Bills draft a 2nd or 3rd rounder with a lot of upside, he won't beat out Fitz next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 I neither love nor hate him. I haven't even met him! Seriously, I think that he's is the definition of average. He's not our biggest problem given that elite QBs aren't something you can easily obtain. I don't like the odds of getting an elite QB any more than I like my odds of dumping my wife and marrying a supermodel. To be clear, I wouldn't trade her in for a supermodel but I'd be willing to share one with her. Other high quality players are more attainable because they don't have to be elite, just work together well as a team. I agree with most here that say we are unlikely to replace Fitz in the next year or even two. Even if the Bills draft a 2nd or 3rd rounder with a lot of upside, he won't beat out Fitz next year. sir i must say i will respect your opinion and wisdom from now on. For the simple reason of your generous offer of sharing your recently aquired supermodel girlfriend with your Wife. That is a sure sign of goodness and wisdom. Your Wife i am sure considers herself rather lucky ? : ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Is this a compliment? well, it wasn't an insult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benderbender Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 This thread turned me around on Fitz. We should all send him $5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maury Ballstein Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 it was all the qb vs the jets (cromartie was having a picnic out there).......then it was all wanny and aaron williams with a "bust" mario williams for a bit now with the defense showing up (double thumbs up to the dominant 94 we have been waiting for) it is all the qb again he wasnt there in all the key moments. Hero time vs Ne and Tenn nope. Thurs night win vs Miami? Forgot to show up for that one (Thanks Lindell) Colts with season in balance? nowhere to be found (such a tough colts defense) the whole season wasn't on him but now it is he keeps failing and people here keep making excuses. cut the cord. lets play the draft game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreakPop Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 (edited) Dude...read what I wrote...you are looking at the old rating system that coaches, scouts, analysts, etc havent used forever and consider a meaningless stat as it only tracks a few stats and tracks nothing to do with effectiveness. It never ceases to amaze me how little people read of a post before they reply to it. I just explained this to you in the very post you replied to...so you made two mistakes...one it wasnt NFL.com and two you are not looking at QBR. If you are going to site QBR scores in other posts, it would probably help to know what QBR is so you can get the right stats. Try scrolling down the main stats page and clicking on the link that says QBR... Here I will help you... http://espn.go.com/nfl/qbr I went there, and what ever all those stats and acronyms mean, who knows. It absolutely has Fitz ranked 25th, how I don't really know or understand. I do know that I went and checked Fitz week by week to see what he was like. It went like this: 3 weeks ranked in the 20's - 29,29,22 3 weeks in the top 12 - 4,10,12.....I used 12 because it is not a teen. 6 weeks in the teens - 18,15,16,14,19,18 That looks to be the exact definition of average, 3 bad weeks, 3 good weeks, and 6 average weeks. I have no idea how that equates to 25th other than then there is 5 guys who have missed at least 2 games or more that were ranked ahead of Fitz. Edited December 7, 2012 by FreakPop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 (edited) I went there, and what ever all those stats and acronyms mean, who knows. It absolutely has Fitz ranked 25th, how I don't really know or understand. I do know that I went and checked Fitz week by week to see what he was like. It went like this: 3 weeks ranked in the 20's - 29,29,22 3 weeks in the top 12 - 4,10,12.....I used 12 because it is not a teen. 6 weeks in the teens - 18,15,16,14,19,18 That looks to be the exact definition of average, 3 bad weeks, 3 good weeks, and 6 average weeks. I have no idea how that equates to 25th other than then there is 5 guys who have missed at least 2 games or more that were ranked ahead of Fitz. If you want to understand the QBR better, there are some good articles online. Google what QBR is and it should come up, and some are interesting reads. You will find its quite significant at measuring aspects of a QB that indicate on field success and efficiency. I've become a big fan of it as the old rating system was literally worthless at that and no NFL personnel people even paid attention to it. As far as the couple guys who have missed games ranked ahead of him...that's the beauty of QBR, it measures performance on the field, not yearly totals. It's all about rating them during their time on the field. Check it out, I think if more people understood it they would really see why Fitz is rated so much lower than the guys in the top 10. It's confusing looking at the acronyms but if once you understand what they are measuring it makes more sense. It's kind of like ESPNs PER for the NBA essentially. Edited December 7, 2012 by Alphadawg7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 I'm done Alpha. I concede. Fitz is garbage. You know everything there is about football and the ESPN QBR is the end all, be all of quarterback stats. FWIW, I made a logical explanation to my thoughts on this whole debate in the other thread about running vs passing. Have a good night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 (edited) I'm done Alpha. I concede. Fitz is garbage. You know everything there is about football and the ESPN QBR is the end all, be all of quarterback stats. FWIW, I made a logical explanation to my thoughts on this whole debate in the other thread about running vs passing. Have a good night. LOL I forgot that this was you I was discussing this with. Dont be upset, I was just having fun with the reply. Look at the other thread, I even agreed with you sent you a beer lol. Its all good dude, I take nothing personal and you shouldnt either, its a message board full of frustrated Bills fans, it is what it is. Some are frustrated with the losing, some with the people frustrated with the losing...some with the people not frustrated enough with the losing...at the end, we all want the same thing and that is a winning season in the playoffs with a chance at something other than a sad 16 game season. And yes, you did make make a good post about Fitz that was on point and logical which I found to be a good read. And FWIW, you and I are actually on the same page quite a bit believe it or not. There was just some posts today that had me on a roll, no biggie. I will issue the same beer here in hopes of a reconciliation and as a show of good faith I deleted my last post where I was just having fun with the situation. Maybe if we have enough of these emoticon beers, the ugly woman known as the Bills 2012 season will start looking good enough to sleep with...lol. Oh man, talk about the walk of shame when the lights come on though Edited December 7, 2012 by Alphadawg7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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