Jim in Anchorage Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 The difference between Cam and a guy like Russell or Losman is that Cam hasn't been bad; he's been average. He will always be an NFL starter, but, yes, it is somewhat up in the air as to whether he can become elite. I don't like the emotional make up. Like I say I give them 2-3 years but I smell a VY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 While our LB core is in need of upgrade.....I am still to the point where I want them to be VERY agressive in getting that QB the question is.....is there anyone in this next draft WORTH that Surely there is someone in this draft who will become a quality starting quarterback in the NFL. The most important question is: "Is Buddy competent to identify who that might be?" Unlike last year, it does not appear that there will be any surefire superstar QBs available anywhere in the draft. It will take a skilled, forward-thinking GM to separate the wheat from the chaff. There is no reason whatsoever to trust Buddy's ability to do that. That's the main reason I am not comfortable having the Bills give up a ton of picks to move up in the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted November 24, 2012 Share Posted November 24, 2012 Cam Newton is a physical specimen with off the chart tools who is playing on a rebuilding team. The difference between RGIII and Newton is that RG is a much more mature person, player and student of the game. Although the Panthers don't have a good record that doesn't mean that Newton isn't going to be a very good qb. He is going to have to go through the developmental process as most young players do. What sets RGIII and Luck apart from other prospects is that they come to the pro ranks with an understanding of the game that most, especially qbs, prospects don't already have. Don't write off Newton. Give him time and he will be a very good player. With respect to RGIII and Luck they are both (my opinion) going to be special players in this league for a very long time, assuming good health. If it appears that I am being too cocksure about both Luck and RGIII being special players I ask for your indulgence. On this topic I am trusting my eyes. I'm confident in my position. The below attached recording is an interview on WGR with Buddy Nix. It is an 18 minute segment. You only have to listen to the fist half where he is talking about Luck and RGIII. http://audio.wgr550....ng-together.htm While not saying Newton won't develop into a complete NFL QB, he does have much to do to get there. Like Vick in Atlanta, he can be exciting as a runner, but he's not likely to win very consistently doing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted November 24, 2012 Share Posted November 24, 2012 You sure about that? I thought the party line was that Donahoe wanted to trade, but Houston wanted no part of the trade. I guess it could have been the price? TD was certainly willing to deal picks to get the franchise QB, so I tend to believe that it was the other side of the trade that didn't budge. Oh, he did apparently try to trade with Houston, but he clearly didn't try hard enough. Houston didn't listen to our offer, so he said, but that begs the question about the offer itself. Moreover, Houston wasn't the only potential partner. WashIngton, Cleveland, Atlanta, Detroit, and Jax all could have been partners. Something tells me that Jax would have listened to a huge offer from the Bills given that they drafted Reggie Williams, who at the time was not really regarded as a true blue chipper because of his relative lack of speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garion Posted November 24, 2012 Share Posted November 24, 2012 I don't like the emotional make up. Like I say I give them 2-3 years but I smell a VY. Agree huge difference between Newton and Luck and RGIII Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreakPop Posted November 24, 2012 Share Posted November 24, 2012 I don't like the emotional make up. Like I say I give them 2-3 years but I smell a VY. i agree with you on Cam. As far as RGIII, i haven't seen him play much, but from what I have seen, he seems to just chuck the ball as far as he can and his WR are making plays. I have seen a few times where the WR was double/triple covered and all he did was just out jump the DBs and catch the ball. I don't really consider that a "deep ball touch/accuracy" on RGIIIs part, it is just plain luck and faith in his WRs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8-8 Forever? Posted November 24, 2012 Share Posted November 24, 2012 I said it then and I will say it now. I wish we had the balls to make a move like this. The kid is special. two 1's and a 2? to go from 6 to 2 in the draft? to go from 11 to 2 would have been probably impossible... not sure that could be done... maybe 3 years worth of 1's and 2's... you could kill your franchise doing that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8-8 Forever? Posted November 24, 2012 Share Posted November 24, 2012 I love you always defend Fitz to ad nauseum but pick on quality QBs like RG3 by commenting on his INT after he had already thrown 4 TDs and had a spectacular day and a flawless week 5 days ago too. I mean, you even hated on him because of Newton when they are not the same player. This kid, and newton, are light years better than any QB we have trotted out since Kelly, and it's not even close. Fitz is an above average NFL QB, a good player on a generally very average team. I think he has been very good, especially in the last month. you guys want f ing " 6'-4" Superman". not happening anytime soon, no Lucks and RGIIIs in this draft and as won't draft high enough to make it happen.. and trading up for the next best 6-4 superman is unlikely as you sack the next 3 drafts to do it. with a franchise location that cannot attract top free agents with other than $100m contracts, giving away 3 drafts (which are the only way this team can progress) for one supposed 6-4 superman will not happen. So we will draft the best QB available wherever we draft with either the 1 or the 2 and go from there. The" Aaron Rodgers approach" ... the only way I see this happening. Not ever sure I want to blow a #1 on a QB this year, assuming Levitre and/or Byrd or both probably walk for better franchises after this year (very likely). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dean Cain Posted November 24, 2012 Share Posted November 24, 2012 I'd still take Luck over RGIII. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maury Ballstein Posted November 24, 2012 Share Posted November 24, 2012 (edited) i agree with you on Cam. As far as RGIII, i haven't seen him play much, but from what I have seen, he seems to just chuck the ball as far as he can and his WR are making plays. I have seen a few times where the WR was double/triple covered and all he did was just out jump the DBs and catch the ball. I don't really consider that a "deep ball touch/accuracy" on RGIIIs part, it is just plain luck and faith in his WRs. Tell me your kidding please ? He just chucks it deep to open Wrs ? That's called a qb sir. Some of them possess this weird ability to throw the ball in a spiraling motion past 30-40 yards. Anyone who seriously can naysay rg3 on his body of work to this point is a certified shmo-hawk. The kid looks like a game changer. Watch the cowboys skins turkey day game for a sample Edited November 24, 2012 by Ryan L Billz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ny33 Posted November 24, 2012 Share Posted November 24, 2012 Fitz is an above average NFL QB, a good player on a generally very average team. I think he has been very good, especially in the last month. you guys want f ing " 6'-4" Superman". not happening anytime soon, no Lucks and RGIIIs in this draft and as won't draft high enough to make it happen.. and trading up for the next best 6-4 superman is unlikely as you sack the next 3 drafts to do it. with a franchise location that cannot attract top free agents with other than $100m contracts, giving away 3 drafts (which are the only way this team can progress) for one supposed 6-4 superman will not happen. So we will draft the best QB available wherever we draft with either the 1 or the 2 and go from there. The" Aaron Rodgers approach" ... the only way I see this happening. Not ever sure I want to blow a #1 on a QB this year, assuming Levitre and/or Byrd or both probably walk for better franchises after this year (very likely). He is an average QB. He's better than Tarvaris or Thigpen, yes, but we need to draft a potential franchise QB if we see one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted November 24, 2012 Share Posted November 24, 2012 Fitz is an above average NFL QB, a good player on a generally very average team. You are inflating the ability of Fitz as a starting NFL qb. At best he is a below average starting qb who is in the lower third ranking as a starting qb. He is not an accurate passer and to be kind doesn't have a very strong arm. The playbook has to be severely curtailed to accommodate his physical limitations. I also agree with your assessment that the Bills are an average team. There are a lot of average teams in the league. One way to jump ahead of the bloated average pack is to get a good qb who can help elevate the team beyond its limitations. Because of the cap virtually all teams have liabilities in its roster makeup. The teams that are successful even with those liabilities are teams with good qbs. The Bills are an average team with a very smart but average at best qb. You don't go very far in the NFL with that arrangement. No matter how much the roster is upgraded the team will still be stuck in the generational muck of mediocrity until it has a legitimate franchise qb. I think he has been very good, especially in the last month. you guys want f ing " 6'-4" Superman". not happening anytime soon, no Lucks and RGIIIs in this draft and as won't draft high enough to make it happen.. and trading up for the next best 6-4 superman is unlikely as you sack the next 3 drafts to do it. with a franchise location that cannot attract top free agents with other than $100m contracts, giving away 3 drafts (which are the only way this team can progress) for one supposed 6-4 superman will not happen. So we will draft the best QB available wherever we draft with either the 1 or the 2 and go from there. The" Aaron Rodgers approach" ... the only way I see this happening. Not ever sure I want to blow a #1 on a QB this year, assuming Levitre and/or Byrd or both probably walk for better franchises after this year (very likely). As you indicated there are no Luck and RGIII caliber of qbs in this draft. That doesn't mean that the front office can't elevate the talent base for the most important position on the field. Even if a prospect qb doesn't play right away it is critical that this organization gets a more talented player ready to take over the reigns from a good guy who is a very mediocre qb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrobot Posted November 24, 2012 Share Posted November 24, 2012 This is ironic. By the way, periods and commas go inside of quotation marks. Not true. When you are putting quotes around a term, like "grammar Nazi", the comma belongs outside. When you say, "Ny33 is barking up the wrong tree", the comma belongs outside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted November 24, 2012 Share Posted November 24, 2012 Not true. When you are putting quotes around a term, like "grammar Nazi", the comma belongs outside. When you say, "Ny33 is barking up the wrong tree", the comma belongs outside. How strange. The book on you is that you're a numbers guy, not a letters guy. I guess the scouting report we have on you is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrobot Posted November 24, 2012 Share Posted November 24, 2012 How strange. The book on you is that you're a numbers guy, not a letters guy. I guess the scouting report we have on you is wrong. LOL! 31 teams were wrong on Cordy Glenn, too! In my other life I teach reading and writing at a private school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted November 24, 2012 Share Posted November 24, 2012 As you indicated there are no Luck and RGIII caliber of qbs in this draft. That doesn't mean that the front office can't elevate the talent base for the most important position on the field. Even if a prospect qb doesn't play right away it is critical that this organization gets a more talented player ready to take over the reigns from a good guy who is a very mediocre qb. Another point few are bringing into discussion is the backup QB, and Gailey's insistence that Thigpen is an NFL quality QB. So even if you are totally convinced in April 2011 that Fitz is a better long term prospect than Dalton or Kaepernick, you'd have to be brain dead to think that they're not better than Thigpen or Levi Brown. There are very few QBs who manage to play a full season, so the backup QB is that much more important now. Same logic would apply in this year's draft. While PTR can argue that Bills haven't gone for the franchise QB because in their esteemable evaluation one wasn't to be had or would have been too rich, their handling of the backup position has been atrocious. Compare that with Polian drafting Reich in round 3, or even the incompetent Jauron nabbing Trent when they already had their QB of the future on the roster? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawgg Posted November 24, 2012 Share Posted November 24, 2012 (edited) Oh, he did apparently try to trade with Houston, but he clearly didn't try hard enough. Houston didn't listen to our offer, so he said, but that begs the question about the offer itself. Moreover, Houston wasn't the only potential partner. WashIngton, Cleveland, Atlanta, Detroit, and Jax all could have been partners. Something tells me that Jax would have listened to a huge offer from the Bills given that they drafted Reggie Williams, who at the time was not really regarded as a true blue chipper because of his relative lack of speed. In asserting that TD clearly didn't try hard enough, your logic is flawed. It's awfully easy to say that now, but judging by what transpired in that draft, one could reasonably surmise the following: - Donahoe viewed Big Ben as a starting caliber QB and worthy of a trade up. - Donahoe viewed JP Losman as a starting caliber QB and one worthy of a first round pick. - Donahoe didn't see an enormous talent gap between Big Ben and JP Losman. If he had, then he may have offered more to move up and get Big Ben. - When he couldn't consumate a trade for Big Ben with a team picking before Pittsburgh, he had a backup plan, which was to go after JP at the end of the first round. To say TD didn't "try hard enough" is simply not true. After all, the man gave up a 2004 2nd, 2004 5th and 2005 1st round pick to get a QB. Clearly, he tried hard to fill the QB void. The bottom line for this moribund franchise is this: talent evaluation is suspect. Had the Bills scouting staff realized that Losman was not an NFL-caliber staring QB, that draft would have turned out a lot differently. But alas, the front office was and continues to be among the worst in the NFL. With that being said, I'd take Donahoe back today, any day of the week. Contrary to what you allege, Donahoe "tried" to bring a winner to Buffalo. The same certainly cannot be said about those who have since succeeded him. Edited November 24, 2012 by Dawgg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted November 24, 2012 Share Posted November 24, 2012 LOL! 31 teams were wrong on Cordy Glenn, too! In my other life I teach reading and writing at a private school. http://grammartips.homestead.com/inside.html In asserting that TD clearly didn't try hard enough, your logic is flawed. It's awfully easy to say that now, but judging by what transpired in that draft, one could reasonably surmise the following: - Donahoe viewed Big Ben as a starting caliber QB and worthy of a trade up. - Donahoe viewed JP Losman as a starting caliber QB and one worthy of a first round pick. - Donahoe didn't see an enormous talent gap between Big Ben and JP Losman. If he had, then he may have offered more to move up and get Big Ben. - When he couldn't consumate a trade for Big Ben with a team picking before Pittsburgh, he had a backup plan, which was to go after JP at the end of the first round. To say TD didn't "try hard enough" is simply not true. After all, the man gave up a 2004 2nd, 2004 5th and 2005 1st round pick to get a QB. Clearly, he tried hard to fill the QB void. The bottom for this moribund franchise is this: talent evaluation is suspect. Had the Bills scouting staff realized that Losman was not an NFL-caliber staring QB, that draft would have turned out a lot differently. But alas, the front office was and continues to be among the worst in the NFL. With that being said, I'd take Donahoe back today. Contrary to what you allege, at least he "tried" to bring a winner to Buffalo. The same can't be said about those who succeeded him. Yep. Unfortunately, he felt from his scouting input that JP Losman was just as good as Manning, Roethlisberger, and Rivers. So, rather than all in for Big Ben, he went with another option that was "just as good." In hindsight, it was a compounded franchise crippling decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreakPop Posted November 24, 2012 Share Posted November 24, 2012 Tell me your kidding please ? He just chucks it deep to open Wrs ? That's called a qb sir. Some of them possess this weird ability to throw the ball in a spiraling motion past 30-40 yards. Anyone who seriously can naysay rg3 on his body of work to this point is a certified shmo-hawk. The kid looks like a game changer. Watch the cowboys skins turkey day game for a sample Really dude? reread what I said. WTF! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malazan Posted November 24, 2012 Share Posted November 24, 2012 Did we not have this same exact thread last year for Cam newton? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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