Orton's Arm Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 Fitz is in the Middle of the Pack......truth is his QBR and whatever else would have been higher this year if the defense was better... No one thought he could carry a team...but he is good enough to win on offense... Just not good or great enough to win with the worst defense in the league > truth is his QBR and whatever else would have been higher this year if the defense was better... If bad defenses hurt QBs' stats, and good defenses help QBs' stats, then how do you explain a guy like Trent Dilfer? Dilfer was a member of the Ravens of 2000--a team which had one of the three best defenses in NFL history. The next year he moved to the Seahawks. Dilfer's stats with the Seahawks were much better than his stats with the Ravens or the Bucs; even though the Seahawks didn't have a defense anywhere close to the Dungy defenses in Tampa, or the Ravens defense of 2000. Or take a guy like Tom Brady. Last season, the Patriots had one of the worst defenses in NFL history. If having a bad defense hurts a QB's stats, then surely you'd expect Brady to have had a down year in 2011. But no. He averaged 8.6 yards per attempt in 2011. At least according to YPA, 2011 was Brady's best season ever. This season, Fitz has one of the five best offensive lines in football, the best running back in the game, a #1 WR who can consistently get open against Revis and other top CBs, emerging threats at WR in the form of Graham and Donald Jones, and a reliable pass catching TE in the form of Chandler. Those things--not the defense--are what affect a QB's stats. Thus far this season, Fitz has averaged 6.7 yards per attempt--no better than the previous two seasons, and not much different from Trent Edwards' career average of 6.5 yards per attempt; or J.P. Losman's career average of 6.6 yards per attempt. And yet, Fitzpatrick has a significantly better offensive supporting cast than Edwards or Losman had been given. Either Fitz must greatly improve, or he must be replaced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 Fitz is ranked as the #22 QB in the NFL this year with a total QBR rating of 48.1 which isn't all that great . But if you consider some of the posts on here that say we need to get Vick he is on the bottom of the QBR , so is Cam Newton , Bradford , Kolb , & many others that we all thought we would be a better team if we would go after any of these guys .. Go to ESPN & you can see the entire list top to bottom & it may surprise a lot of you that wanted us to go & get other QB's that were thought to be better than our own Fitz ... So...Just wondering...You would not take Cam Newton, or Sam Bradford, over Fitz right now? QBR, or QB Rating, aside? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreakPop Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 So...Just wondering...You would not take Cam Newton, or Sam Bradford, over Fitz right now? QBR, or QB Rating, aside? Nope, Newton is a bum and Bradford isn't any better than Fitz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 Emerging threats is a pretty generous term to discribe Jones and Graham. Graham may get there, but one of the things that hurts the Bills is not having a solid #2 WR I wouldn't call Jones emerging into that role. He's a stop gap at best. Defense does somewhat indirectly effect QB stats as in the Bill's case almost every game you have to come from behind or put up a ton of points. So now the QB is out there throwing when the Defense knows the QB is throwing. AND wit hmarginal WR's out there. It does make a difference. Can great QB's overcome that, yes, but even the best can't do it every week. I agree would love to get a better QB, just be willing to accept that unless Denver, New Orleans, NE, or Green Bay are willing to trade their current starting QB's, there's better chance the Bill's could have worse play from the QB position than they have now. This season, Fitz has one of the five best offensive lines in football, the best running back in the game, a #1 WR who can consistently get open against Revis and other top CBs, emerging threats at WR in the form of Graham and Donald Jones, and a reliable pass catching TE in the form of Chandler. Those things--not the defense--are what affect a QB's stats. Thus far this season, Fitz has averaged 6.7 yards per attempt--no better than the previous two seasons, and not much different from Trent Edwards' career average of 6.5 yards per attempt; or J.P. Losman's career average of 6.6 yards per attempt. And yet, Fitzpatrick has a significantly better offensive supporting cast than Edwards or Losman had been given. Either Fitz must greatly improve, or he must be replaced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maury Ballstein Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 (edited) Nope, Newton is a bum and Bradford isn't any better than Fitz. Anyone that takes Fitz over newton smokes crack. Maybe it's high grade crack but it's crack. Newton w this great OL that meeeester fitz wastes would be instant money. "newton is a bum" Only threw for 4000 yards as a rookie. Tighten up w this crazy talk. Once cam gets a team around him it's over. Edited November 19, 2012 by Ryan L Billz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreakPop Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 Anyone that takes Fitz over newton smokes crack. Maybe it's high grade crack but it's crack. Newton w this great OL that meeeester fitz wastes would be instant money. "newton is a bum" Only threw for 4000 yards as a rookie. Tighten up w this crazy talk. Once cam gets a team around him it's over. Obviously your football intellect is in question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Truth Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 I am not a fan of the Total QBR stat. I believe ESPN is the one that created it. I have just noticed it to produce too many extremes. For example, I have seen ratings extremely low (in the single digits) and some extremely high. It seems to produce polarizing evaluations; either a QB had a horrendous game or an axceptional one. It's rare that I see a QB with a 60 total QBR or a 40. It is always at the extremes for individual games. I still prefer QB Rating which isn't perfect but better IMO. Total QBR blows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 (edited) I am not a fan of the Total QBR stat. I believe ESPN is the one that created it. I have just noticed it to produce too many extremes. For example, I have seen ratings extremely low (in the single digits) and some extremely high. It seems to produce polarizing evaluations; either a QB had a horrendous game or an axceptional one. It's rare that I see a QB with a 60 total QBR or a 40. It is always at the extremes for individual games. I still prefer QB Rating which isn't perfect but better IMO. Total QBR blows. fitz hasnt scored below 30 once this year, and only above 65 one time. that means nearly every game of his is in that range (again, this year). Edited November 19, 2012 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsrhody Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 Obviously your football intellect is in question. I think most people would disagree with you wholeheartedly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Truth Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 Andrew Luck has 12 interceptions and 12 touchdowns as well as 8 fumbles. He is 3rd in the league in total QBR. The stat blows. Jake Locker is 7th in the league in total QBR. The stat blows. Need I continue my case? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 Obviously your football intellect is in question. If his is in question, yours has already be diagnosed as null. Cam over fitz any and every day. Fitz might have a better game here and there, but Cam is better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maury Ballstein Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 (edited) Obviously your football intellect is in question. excusaaa meee? your blind fitz love is goin nuts this AM sir. I apologize for having the opinion 99% of all NFL fans would take in regards to the Cam vs Fitz nonsense. your zany takes are always amusing. defend the fitzster at all costs. don't ever change ponyboy Edited November 19, 2012 by Ryan L Billz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San-O Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 You don't need Numbers, watch him play thats all you need is to see how bad he is + 1 This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreakPop Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 excusaaa meee? your blind fitz love is goin nuts this AM sir. I apologize for having the opinion 99% of all NFL fans would take in regards to the Cam vs Fitz nonsense. your zany takes are always amusing. defend the fitzster at all costs. don't ever change ponyboy And that same 99% were in favor of V Young also. How's that working for them? No thanks to Cam. I would rather take other QBs to replace Fitz than Cam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maury Ballstein Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 And that same 99% were in favor of V Young also. How's that working for them? No thanks to Cam. I would rather take other QBs to replace Fitz than Cam. no you are inaccurate or just plain wrong here.....V Young is a D plus QB.......Cam is an B plus (due to struggling team presently) but will be an A soon enough or was last year as a Rookie. Vince young has zero to do with this post or the crazy notion that anyone besides yourself would choose Fitz over Cam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 no you are inaccurate or just plain wrong here.....V Young is a D plus QB.......Cam is an B plus (due to struggling team presently) but will be an A soon enough or was last year as a Rookie. Vince young has zero to do with this post or the crazy notion that anyone besides yourself would choose Fitz over Cam. I'm a huge Newton fan and thought the Young/ Newton comparisons were lazy and a bit racist. Newton was a much better overall QB than Young. Obviously, there is little question he far superior to Fitz as a QB physically. Unfortunately, there is a lot more to playing the position than just physical skills. If Cam had Fitz' other qualities, he'd be unstoppable. The knock on QBs that run a lot is you can adjust to them. RG3 is more of a pocket passer than Newton. I still think Newton will be a star but this season is troublesome. He also is not a great leader and has yet to really beat a good team. He's young though but it's no guarantee he will even get to his rookie season again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/splits/_/id/8664/ryan-fitzpatrick I always find the splits to be interesting to look at. I've noticed Fitz is taking sacks a bit more lately, I wonder if he's doing that vs forcing throws, as he's also throwing a few less interceptions over the last couple of weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronc24 Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 And that same 99% were in favor of V Young also. How's that working for them? No thanks to Cam. I would rather take other QBs to replace Fitz than Cam. Why? You point to every reason why Fitz should be exonerated. Is it Cam's fault that his coach doesn't have the balls to go for it on 4th and 1 not once, but twice? His fault that his defense allowed the bucs to go 80 yards in 50 seconds with no timeouts? Unlike Fitz, he did not turn the ball over in those situations. If you cannot see that Cam is a far superior athlete and QB than Fitz, then I seriously question your football IQ. He is not Vince Young. He is Cam Newton, and he is better than Fitzpatrick. Period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDH Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 Why? You point to every reason why Fitz should be exonerated. Is it Cam's fault that his coach doesn't have the balls to go for it on 4th and 1 not once, but twice? His fault that his defense allowed the bucs to go 80 yards in 50 seconds with no timeouts? Unlike Fitz, he did not turn the ball over in those situations. If you cannot see that Cam is a far superior athlete and QB than Fitz, then I seriously question your football IQ. He is not Vince Young. He is Cam Newton, and he is better than Fitzpatrick. Period. It's funny you make excuses for Cam because of his D but not for Fitz. The only thing Cam has going for him right now is his youth and potential. If you're going strictly based on current performance Cam is not better than Fitz. Will he be better? Maybe. I'd pick Cam on the Bills over Fitz based purely on the chance that he'll improve whereas I know exactly what I'll get from Fitz. But if you asked who I'd rather have at QB this week I'd probably lean towards Fitz. The only things Cam does better than Fitz right now are throw the deep ball and running. His accuracy isn't better, his leadership isn't better, his command of his offense isn't better, his pre-snap and post-snap reads aren't better. Granted, I wouldn't expect them to be better right now given that this is his 2nd year in the league. Hopefully he'll learn. As others have pointed out though there are plenty of guys who looked good for a season and then fell on their faces. You are incredibly irrational when it comes to Fitz as proved by your statement that he's "historically bad" in a different thread. People might want to question your football IQ given that statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamOnDan Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 QBR is massively better rating system than old QB rating system which literally had no way to measure a QB's real effectiveness. In fact the original QB rating is not even a stat any scouts, coaches, or GMs used or paid any attention to and was pretty viewed as useless. Which is why QBR was created and it actually has the ability to better rate the effectiveness of a QB. Literally QB rating before was pointless and considered useless. what he said! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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