The Big Cat Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Well put. This is exactly how I feel. This kind of coaching drives me INSANE. My high school basketball coach had a great scheme. He won more than 400 games in his career, but he never won the big one, and he could never consistently beat the coach of our rival. Why? Because in a school of 2,200 students, he wedged players into HIS scheme, never the other way around. Our rival coach? Changed his gameplan with his game to game roster. I don't know if it's an ego thing or what, but this isn't specific to our coach, but it is a thing. Great point...the only thing Wanny adjusted at halftime was his pink thong. Ha, that must have been what was cutting off circulation to his balls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonechiller Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 So says Nick Barnett. Jesus, I'm so tired of hearing the same generic, meaningless bull ****. Seriously, we're about halfway through the season and we don't know how to execute? Not even a little? We're giving up yards and points in unprecedented hoardes. Even a tiny bit of execution would help. Are the players that undisciplined? Heck yeah, I'm all for the execution of this defense! (maybe even the coaching staff) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 This kind of coaching drives me INSANE. My high school basketball coach had a great scheme. He won more than 400 games in his career, but he never won the big one, and he could never consistently beat the coach of our rival. Why? Because in a school of 2,200 students, he wedged players into HIS scheme, never the other way around. Our rival coach? Changed his gameplan with his game to game roster. I don't know if it's an ego thing or what, but this isn't specific to our coach, but it is a thing. Ha, that must have been what was cutting off circulation to his balls. what do our players do well that we arent allowing them to do right now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Best Player Available Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 So says Nick Barnett. Jesus, I'm so tired of hearing the same generic, meaningless bull ****. Seriously, we're about halfway through the season and we don't know how to execute? Not even a little? We're giving up yards and points in unprecedented hoardes. Even a tiny bit of execution would help. Are the players that undisciplined? Apparently, the players and coaching staff have regressed to their Pop Warner years. Because that's what the coaches say to little kids learning the game. These comments are the telltale signs of a losing culture. The Bills are not a good team nor are they coached well at all. Carolina fired their GM this AM. The losing Bills stay put and wash yet another season down the drain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattsox Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 So says Nick Barnett. Jesus, I'm so tired of hearing the same generic, meaningless bull ****. Seriously, we're about halfway through the season and we don't know how to execute? Not even a little? We're giving up yards and points in unprecedented hoardes. Even a tiny bit of execution would help. Are the players that undisciplined? Yep. I don't know what it's going to take to get these guys heads out of the clouds and start playing like a team... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike in Syracuse Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Actually, the more I think about this, the more I've come to a different conclusion: This defense is bad because it's filled with players like Nick Barnett who is clearly retarded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Mike1 Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Gailey is in the last year of his deal, right? Yup. Can't fire a guy that doesn't have a job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Actually, the more I think about this, the more I've come to a different conclusion: This defense is bad because it's filled with players like Nick Barnett who is clearly retarded. i mean if the argument is that they cant execute the defense, and the bulk of the commentary is that the defense is too basic schematically..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 what do our players do well that we arent allowing them to do right now? I've seen Sheppherd blitz well. Moore pressures well, McKelvin is good at jumping routes, Byrd blitzes well, I'd venture to say a guy with Bradham's intensity blitzes well. Our line runs twists with success. Instead we don't do ANYTHING aggressive on defense--and I can't think of a single solid defense in the NFL that has success with this formula---MAY BE the Giants. This was my biggest concern when we hired Stache the first time around. He's notorious for being Captain Vanilla--when we've got players built to be NASTY out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 One thing no one has even mentioned: the Titans were playing their BACKUP QB. Think about that. We lost at home to the Tennessee Titans' BACKUP QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 One thing no one has even mentioned: the Titans were playing their BACKUP QB. Think about that. We lost at home to the Tennessee Titans' BACKUP QB. This is false. Folks here were wise to fear Hasselbeck. He's smart, can read defenses, and make the passes. He manages well and won't lose the game for his team. The same CANNOT be said about Locker. He's much more volatile, and fans were right to dread facing the steady, savvy vet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 seriously though, our LBs simply arent diagnosing plays well and even when they are they are getting beat. people start trying to overcompensate to help them and they get beat because they are neglecting their own responsibilities. bad lbs will make you a bad defense in a hurry - see philly last year. frankly the coaches have gone outside the box on this group some already - they use a safety in there to cover up coverage issues, theyve benched a guy... theres only so much you can do though if the guys just cant play. we knew that it was a BIG question mark going into the season and hoped shepherd would step up, and behind a good dline that they would overachieve. the lines not playing up to potential and the LBs are atrocious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 This is false. Folks here were wise to fear Hasselbeck. He's smart, can read defenses, and make the passes. He manages well and won't lose the game for his team. The same CANNOT be said about Locker. He's much more volatile, and fans were right to dread facing the steady, savvy vet. But what part of it is "false"? The Titans think Locker gives them their best chance to win, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 I've seen Sheppherd blitz well. Moore pressures well, McKelvin is good at jumping routes, Byrd blitzes well, I'd venture to say a guy with Bradham's intensity blitzes well. Our line runs twists with success. Instead we don't do ANYTHING aggressive on defense--and I can't think of a single solid defense in the NFL that has success with this formula---MAY BE the Giants. This was my biggest concern when we hired Stache the first time around. He's notorious for being Captain Vanilla--when we've got players built to be NASTY out there. so.... 1) send the house on a blitz 2) jump routes 3 hope for the best? our front four are indeed underachieving but at some point there has to be a realization that when one of your position groups is among the worst in the nfl (our LBs) theres only so much you can do to hide it. even if the DL was playing up to expectation wed be hurting with this LB play. we are likely to take lumps all season with this. it was a concern going into the year and its come true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 But what part of it is "false"? The Titans think Locker gives them their best chance to win, no? Sorry, technically Hasslebeck is the "backup." Your implication (or at least my inference) of him being their second best quarterback, is false. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Never NEVER Give-up Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 AND we lost 2 Super Bowls to back-ups Jeff Hostetler and Mark Rypien (tho Ryp was the starter that year, he was starter for a very short time). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaGimp Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 (edited) This is false. Folks here were wise to fear Hasselbeck. He's smart, can read defenses, and make the passes. He manages well and won't lose the game for his team. The same CANNOT be said about Locker. He's much more volatile, and fans were right to dread facing the steady, savvy vet. So you glorify a guy who is a backup that beat the Bills and yet the Bills have a starter who is worse than the Tennessee backup? Edited October 22, 2012 by DaGimp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 But what part of it is "false"? The Titans think Locker gives them their best chance to win, no? perhaps? they invested a high pick in him, and he has to get his chance to play/learn/grow. just because hes the starter doesnt mean they think hes 100% the best shot to win any given sunday. i really havent seen a lot of lockers play so i cant comment toooo much though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 so.... 1) send the house on a blitz 2) jump routes 3 hope for the best? our front four are indeed underachieving but at some point there has to be a realization that when one of your position groups is among the worst in the nfl (our LBs) theres only so much you can do to hide it. even if the DL was playing up to expectation wed be hurting with this LB play. we are likely to take lumps all season with this. it was a concern going into the year and its come true. What is the worst that could happen? Yes, blitz like all !@#$ing hell. Jump routes, gamble, double team. DO SOMETHING. Jesus! May be we end up giving up 35 points a game, but at least it looks like we're !@#$ing trying. May be we'll register more than one measly sack. May be we'll force a turnover. May be our middling quarterback wouldn't then have to play a perfect !@#$ing game, just to keep us competitive! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Never NEVER Give-up Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 I posted this to another thread, but it applies here. . . . . I just did a quick analysis of the Bills Tackling Stats: % of TOTAL TACKLES: LB-32 DB-48, DL-20 % of SOLO TACKLES: LB-31 DB-50 DL-19 What does it mean? The analysis is incomplete because we need to realize DB's make a high %age of tackles on passing plays, thus padding their #'s, BUT, the raw #'s above DO suggest that the LB's are making too few plays. So I said to myself, "Myself, what if you compared our D to the #1 D (we want to become), what do their #'s look like". Number 1 right now is SF 49'ers, here are their numbers % of TOTAL TACKLES LB-40 DB-38 DL-22 % of SOLO TACKLES LB-42 DB-36 DL-22 The analysis is still incomplete, but you can derive that the Bill's secondary is being called on to make too many plays AND it make sense that as the game goes on those guys may get more worn out, hence succeptable to big plays later in the game. Also, the Bills have 438 total tackles to SF's 377 or 16% more - we're on the field way too much (but we all already knew THAT !) Another interesting thing about the numbers - the Niner LB's made 42% of the solo stops and were in on 40% of all tackles. The Bills' LB's only made 31% of the stops and were in on 32% of all tackles. This tells me the Niner LB's made plays 42% of the time on their own with no help (assists). The Bills' LB's should be embarrassed. Looking at our DB's - theyre being asked to make SOLO stops (no help from LB/DL) on almost 50% (48%) of the plays - UN-Billeveable!!! We need to cut them some slack, buy them some Ben-gay and tell them we will draft LB's and maybe find some in Free Agency!!! Our DL makes slighly fewer tackles as a %age of total plays, than the Niners DL - 20% vs 22%. But it's not as glaring as the LB/DB numbers, but intuitively, we all know the DL should be doing better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy in 4C Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 This is a historically bad defense. Last year was statistically the worst defense in team history. We are on pace to break last year's record. Terrible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 So you glorify a guy who is a backup that beat the Bills and yet the Bills have a starter who is worse than the Tennessee backup? Your post makes no sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaGimp Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Your post makes no sense. read it again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy in 4C Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 This is false. Folks here were wise to fear Hasselbeck. He's smart, can read defenses, and make the passes. He manages well and won't lose the game for his team. The same CANNOT be said about Locker. He's much more volatile, and fans were right to dread facing the steady, savvy vet. Agreed. With no pressure he just waited for their TE's and slot receivers to beat our terrible linebackers. Guys were WIDE open Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Straw Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 its odd to me that he went so far as to say one of the best schematically in the league if its all on the coaches. several players have come out blaming the players.... i dunno. guessing at what happens behind closed doors can be tough but something is certainly up. Kyle Williams alluded to 'some people not doing their jobs' referring to players...wonder who he is talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 read it again Yeah, no. The opposing quarterback isn't in an arm wrestling contest with ours, so how is it that you inferred from what I said that I think their "backup" is better than our starter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BiggieScooby Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 118, 150, 33, 247, 311, 182, 197. Opponents RUSHING yards the first 7 games! If they could at least take away the run I'd be happy. That's right give up 600 yards passing, but don't get run off the field. Our defensive effort in stopping the run is pathetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Wheels Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Actually, the more I think about this, the more I've come to a different conclusion: This defense is bad because it's filled with players like Nick Barnett who is clearly retarded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaGimp Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Yeah, no. The opposing quarterback isn't in an arm wrestling contest with ours, so how is it that you inferred from what I said that I think their "backup" is better than our starter? He done got beat by that der done backup...yeee hah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zow2 Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 I think the players on this D are woefully overrated. Yes, you can probably sell off the pieces for a pretty good return (draft picks?)..but collectively as a group they have Zero chemistry and are a step slow on everything. A half step behind in the NFL is huge. I'd love to blame Wanny and Chan for everything but this group of men on the field are to blame more. Although you do have to blame Nix and Chan for even putting this group together. So far whatever they are touching on D has turned to sh*t despite their best efforts to sign and draft "talent". So that part is on management. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 He done got beat by that der done backup...yeee hah Again, unless you're trolling, I think it's important you understand a very basic aspect of football: Our defense got beat by their backup, and our quarterback was unable to beat their defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 (edited) Kyle Williams alluded to 'some people not doing their jobs' referring to players...wonder who he is talking about? thats what im saying - the vets and coaches all seem to be pointing at something specific without naming names. whether shep or scott is at MLB, it seems like they are consistently missing their assignments. then you start having other guys wash in (safeties, OLBs, and heck yesterday even some corners got in on it) to try to fill the missed assignment instead of completing their own. having bradham/moats struggling right next to them hasnt helped either watch CJ2ks first td run - how many players got washed inside of their blockers on that side (the lbs, safety, and corner were ALL inside their blocker if i remember correct) - NO ONE had contain on that side of the field. even the second one, didnt the lb that was supposed to fill that hole also end up washed inside? a few times i watched the OLB or safety follow so tight to the MLB on the play that shoulder pads were touching and then on the cut back... no one was there. its just sloppy between the hashes right now. i think after the NE meltdown and watching the MLB get called out play after play by brady guys dont trust the center of the field allowing all kinds of bad things to happen when they react to quickly too get there. Edited October 22, 2012 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColdBlueNorth Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Yup. Can't fire a guy that doesn't have a job. It's too bad because as a offensive coordinator I think Gailey is creative and would be fine, especially with a better QB at the helm, but I have a feeling he is an old-school guy who won't be willing to throw Wanny underneath the bus where he should be thrown for the product he has put on the field. Gailey has asked Fitz to protect the ball better and at times Fitz doesn't, he has gotten both running backs to be productive, he has gotten the most from a offensive line that has been riddled with injuries and practice squad fill-in's, he is a bit of a gambler and will take chances where he sometimes just needs to let it ride, but with the right QB those choices don't bite him as often. We just needed a real defensive coordinator and Wannestedt apparently is not the answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaGimp Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 I have to question a play call that has Kyle Williams dropping in to pass coverage. Any coach that calls that sucks and not the player. Dude he's a better cover corner than the other Williams! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike in Syracuse Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 thats what im saying - the vets and coaches all seem to be pointing at something specific without naming names. whether shep or scott is at MLB, it seems like they consistently missing their assignments. then you start having other guys wash in (safeties, OLBs, and heck yesterday even some corners got in on it) to try to fill the missed assignment instead of completing their own. watch CJ2ks first td run - how many players got washed inside of their blockers on that side (the lbs, safety, and corner were ALL inside their blocker if i remember correct) - NO ONE had contain on that side of the field. even the second one, didnt the lb that was supposed to fill that hole also end up washed inside? a few times i watched the OLB or safety follow so tight to the MLB on the play that shoulder pads were touching and then on the cut back... no one was there. its just sloppy between the hashes right now. i think after the NE meltdown and watching the MLB get called out play after play by brady guys dont trust the center of the field allowing all kinds of bad things to happen when they react to quickly too get there. And yet week after week Morrison remains inactive. It's !@#$ing mind boggling. So Morrison is worse than Shep who's constantly out of position and missing tackles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattsox Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 If you don't have the talent to play the scheme at issue, then you have two options: (a) get different players; or (b) change the scheme. We are doing neither. Exactly. Gotta love this team. We'll stay the course. Gotta love their logic. If the brakes on my car don't work today, maybe they'll work tomorrow... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 And yet week after week Morrison remains inactive. It's !@#$ing mind boggling. So Morrison is worse than Shep who's constantly out of position and missing tackles? that has baffled me. i wont claim to know better on this, but ive said about a half dozen times today that i dont get what happened to him. he fell quick if he is truly that bad right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColdBlueNorth Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 some parts were there. other parts were not there. they were good up front. they had one of the worst secondaries in the history of the nfl - and added a top FA corner and safety in the same offseason as wade and had added a first round corner the year before in addition to adding guys like brooks reed and jj watt to an already strong front 7. its not like wade had a magic scheme that made the corners great - they added talent to an all time bad position group which made a BIG difference. wade helped, but not like people give credit for. I do not agree with minimizing Wade's impact. The Texan's were 30th in defensive ranking in 2010 with most of those missing parts. For rush defense with that incredibly strong front 7 they were middle of the road at 13th, but you have to consider that they were 13th when no one ever felt they had to run against them because they were dead last against the pass. Their weakness against the pass enhanced their rush defense numbers the same way our very weak rush defense has often (and incorrectly) inflated our pass defense rankings. Folks did not need to throw against us when they could rush for 300 yards. One year after Wade arrived they moved up to 4th against the rush and 3rd against the pass. Sure they drafted J. J. Watt from the Badgers and got some other missing pieces. We went out and nabbed Mario, and Anderson, to compliment a front that included a pro-bowler in Kyle Williams and a 3rd overall draft choice in Dareus, the front office then grabbed Gilmore in the first to suppliment a secondary that is rife with high round picks to what end? Scheme and coaching is the difference-maker in the NFL and those are not evident in Wanny's first year at the helm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 (edited) I do not agree with minimizing Wade's impact. The Texan's were 30th in defensive ranking in 2010 with most of those missing parts. For rush defense with that incredibly strong front 7 they were middle of the road at 13th, but you have to consider that they were 13th when no one ever felt they had to run against them because they were dead last against the pass. Their weakness against the pass enhanced their rush defense numbers the same way our very weak rush defense has often (and incorrectly) inflated our pass defense rankings. Folks did not need to throw against us when they could rush for 300 yards. One year after Wade arrived they moved up to 4th against the rush and 3rd against the pass. Sure they drafted J. J. Watt from the Badgers and got some other missing pieces. We went out and nabbed Mario, and Anderson, to compliment a front that included a pro-bowler in Kyle Williams and a 3rd overall draft choice in Dareus, the front office then grabbed Gilmore in the first to suppliment a secondary that is rife with high round picks to what end? Scheme and coaching is the difference-maker in the NFL and those are not evident in Wanny's first year at the helm. if you watched them play though, guys were running wild in that secondary. it was consistently talked about as one of the worst EVER during that season. they added big pieces to it (Joseph, Manning). the front 7 wasnt a disaster by any means. Wade did help, no doubt. turning an all time weakness into a competency helped a lot too though. if we add a new coach and 2 top LBs, we might similarly over credit the coach for changing our fortune when its got a lot to do with the fact that you just cant succeed with position groups coming up so miserably short in talent. Edited October 22, 2012 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CardinalScotts Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 yes the guys who lead every defense in tackles middle linebacker (Sheppard), weak side linebacker (Barnett) and safety (WIlson) all miss a ton of tackles. Wilson I get he's a poor tackler, Barnett is a good hitter but a bad tackler he used to run down plays from the back side in Green Bay- still trys with Buffalo but just not quick enough and Shep who over pursues and takes himself out of plays Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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