Fezmid Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 its a BS play. His excuse is that he wants to force a fumble. If someone gets hurt he should be fined or suspended for a "bounty" Here's the out. QB takes snap, takes a 2 to 5 step drop and then falls down. More time is taken off of the clock. You can say it's a BS play, but is it all that much different than when teams pretend to spike the ball, but then throw it anyway? You can argue that it's different at the end of the game because the score is already determined, but at halftime? What's to stop someone from faking the kneeldown and then going deep, catching the opponent offguard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJ (not THAT RJ) Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 You can say it's a BS play, but is it all that much different than when teams pretend to spike the ball, but then throw it anyway? You can argue that it's different at the end of the game because the score is already determined, but at halftime? What's to stop someone from faking the kneeldown and then going deep, catching the opponent offguard? Not a bad theoretical question, but in this actual case, Fez, we are discussing kneeldowns with the game decided. Schiano is a wannabe tough guy douche, a species all too common among football coaches at all levels, and he is making himself look bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Tim Graham had a good article about this yesterday. It actually answered a question I had (earlier in this thead I believe) where I had heard on the radio that the Miracle in the Meadowlands play had been preceeded by a kneeldown that the Eagles tried to blow up. Indeed, it had - I had never heard about that. What's more - it says Csonka refused to take the handoff because he disagreed with the call to have him run it?!? WTF?!? I really had never known that!!: http://www.buffalonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20120921/SPORTS/120929566 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dopey Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 (edited) Not a bad theoretical question, but in this actual case, Fez, we are discussing kneeldowns with the game decided. Schiano is a wannabe tough guy douche, a species all too common among football coaches at all levels, and he is making himself look bad. Why are you discussing kneeldowns when the game has been decided? Shciano specifically said if they are down by more than 1 score, he wouldn't do it. If it's one score they are down by, then yes he would do it. I thought it was bush-league when Marino faked the spike but he didn't get any crap about it.He should have. Schiano's move was well within the rules and just caught the Gmen off guard. If they are only down by a TD or less, I have no problem with it. Unwritten rule my ass.Tell that to Marino. And wannabe tough guys are usually behind a keyboard calling others wannabe tough guys(I'm not calling you a wannabe tough guy, for that would make me a wannabe tough guy). Edited September 24, 2012 by Dopey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJ (not THAT RJ) Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Why are you discussing kneeldowns when the game has been decided? Shciano specifically said if they are down by more than 1 score, he wouldn't do it. If it's one score they are down by, then yes he would do it. I thought it was bush-league when Marino faked the spike but he didn't get any crap about it.He should have. Schiano's move was well within the rules and just caught the Gmen off guard. If they are only down by a TD or less, I have no problem with it. Unwritten rule my ass.Tell that to Marino. And wannabe tough guys are usually behind a keyboard calling others wannabe tough guys(I'm not calling you a wannabe tough guy, for that would make me a wannabe tough guy). Five seconds left, dopey. (That is me using your screen name, not being a wannabe tough guy, btw.) The game was over. Bush league move, and very different from a team driving for a tying or wining score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KollegeStudnet Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 In this scenario, if the Bucs go 1-7 in the first half of the season...and keep doing this on kneeldowns...the jokes on them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bills!Win! Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 (edited) If the buccaneers recovered a fumble and eventually ended up winning, would he still be known for his "douchebaggery?" No, the people who complain about an aggressive coach are the ones who possess this "douchebaggery." Edited September 24, 2012 by Bills!Win! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJ (not THAT RJ) Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 If the buccaneers recovered a fumble and eventually ended up winning, would he still be known for his "douchebaggery?" No, the people who complain about an aggressive coach are the ones who possess this "douchebaggery." If if if.... they did not, and would not. We can agree to disagree, which is the civilized thing to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 I don't understand what all the hubub is about this. There's still time on the clock. It is a football game. If it's within a TD, try to get the ball back. I've never understood why teams lay down when the other teams goes into this "victory formation". I say good for the Bucs coach. go Bucs (except when playing the Bills). Didn't Bill Bellyache do something similar in the Ralph last year? I don't recall anyone crying about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDH Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 its a BS play. His excuse is that he wants to force a fumble. If someone gets hurt he should be fined or suspended for a "bounty" I really don't see what the big issue people have with this is. It's a play in an NFL game. What gives the offense the right to say the D can't hit them on a snap? Are people really getting up upset because there are competitors who fight until the end of the game to win instead of just conceding? They should be fighting until the end. If the league doesn't want contact in these situations then they should make a rule stating the offense doesn't need to snap the ball - the game just ends with time on the clock. Until such a rule is put into place then the D trying their best to win the game is a legitimate move. The problem people should have is that just giving up on the field has become acceptable. If it's a close game and there's time on the clock it doesn't matter what the odds are- you try to win the game (as long as it's within the rules.) If the odds of winning are better with your team playing until the end (which they are) you do it - no matter how minuscule those odds are. As for the injury argument, If both teams are prepared for contact the chances of an injury here are no greater than on any other play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 If the buccaneers recovered a fumble and eventually ended up winning, would he still be known for his "douchebaggery?" No, the people who complain about an aggressive coach are the ones who possess this "douchebaggery." So what your suggesting is they get through, seat the ball from the qbs hand, secure possession inside 5 seconds, and likely have to do so cleanly, in the middle of what would be a 20 man scrum, and return that fumble for a td? Heck, with 15 seconds they atleast get to run an offensive play if they win the lottery of getting the fumble, yet alone recovery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marauderswr80 Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 What if you line someone up at the WR spot and have them do a false start on purpose! Is that considered a 10 sec run off?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maybe Someday Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 (edited) I guess. I didnt stay up to watch the end of the game. I went to sleep thinking the Pats had won. But the mojo seems to be working (seroiusly) - Every time I turn to the game the Putz have a big drive and score, I turn the channel and then get out scored. I have no idea what to do Sunday. I made a few calls and Directv service to your house will be blocked on Sunday. You're welcome!!! btw, did you hear the mics picking up the Bills/Browns players at the end of the 1st half? The Bills took a knee and I heard someone say (presumably a Bills player), "hey, let's be smart here" or something like that. They took a knee with no incident. I think it's in the players' best interests not to be d-bags in that setting. I heard that too and thought it was pretty funny. I thought it was the ref that said it. Most of the players have a certain level of respect for each other. In hearing some of the Bucs players respond to the questions after the Giants game, it doesn’t sound like this is their idea, most of the replies were basically “we’re just doing what coach says”. I’m all for playing hard to the final whistle but you have to have some class. Next time a team would normally kneel down against the Bucs, line up in the victory formation and then fire out and level the bucs players. Or just keep running up the score so you don’t have to kneel down. Edited September 24, 2012 by cnico Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChasBB Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Not saying I agree or disagree with what Schiano did. Obviously, it is not the norm to be in attack mode during the kneel-down phase of the game. And this is especially so if there is a 2-score lead by the team taking the kneel down. However, what if it is a 1-score game and what if Schiano's aggressive play actually resulted in a fumble and got his team the ball back? It's a legitimate question. Is it likely? Obviously not. The chances of forcing a fumble on a kneel down are probably 1 in a 1000. Yet, the NFL makes the offense run a play before the play clock runs out. A play is a play is a play. If a play must be run and an aggressive defense thinks there is a chance they can force a fumble -- no matter how slight the odds -- then it's hard to fault them for trying. I don't see why it needs to be assumed the defense should just lay down. Again, I'm not necessarily advocating what Schiano did and it ultimately is probably a stupid way to play it out, but I cannot entirely dismiss it, either. If a fumble was forced and Tampa got the ball back and scored and won, then it would look like a brilliant move. If the NFL doesn't want this then maybe they should allow an exception to the play clock in these instances and allow the offense to let the clock tick off to 0:00. The kneel down is a stupid play anyhow. Do away with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Not saying I agree or disagree with what Schiano did. Obviously, it is not the norm to be in attack mode during the kneel-down phase of the game. And this is especially so if there is a 2-score lead by the team taking the kneel down. However, what if it is a 1-score game and what if Schiano's aggressive play actually resulted in a fumble and got his team the ball back? It's a legitimate question. Is it likely? Obviously not. The chances of forcing a fumble on a kneel down are probably 1 in a 1000. Yet, the NFL makes the offense run a play before the play clock runs out. A play is a play is a play. If a play must be run and an aggressive defense thinks there is a chance they can force a fumble -- no matter how slight the odds -- then it's hard to fault them for trying. I don't see why it needs to be assumed the defense should just lay down. Again, I'm not necessarily advocating what Schiano did and it ultimately is probably a stupid way to play it out, but I cannot entirely dismiss it, either. If a fumble was forced and Tampa got the ball back and scored and won, then it would look like a brilliant move. If the NFL doesn't want this then maybe they should allow an exception to the play clock in these instances and allow the offense to let the clock tick off to 0:00. The kneel down is a stupid play anyhow. Do away with it. Let's take a reasonable scenario. Let's say they're down by 3 on the opponents 20 with 30 seconds left. Then it might make sense. Still a long shot, but at least there's a chance. Doing it when you have no chance in hell is a different story. Again, I don't think it's that egregious, but I can't cast what he did, in the situation he did it in, in a positive light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Not saying I agree or disagree with what Schiano did. Obviously, it is not the norm to be in attack mode during the kneel-down phase of the game. And this is especially so if there is a 2-score lead by the team taking the kneel down. However, what if it is a 1-score game and what if Schiano's aggressive play actually resulted in a fumble and got his team the ball back? It's a legitimate question. Is it likely? Obviously not. The chances of forcing a fumble on a kneel down are probably 1 in a 1000. Yet, the NFL makes the offense run a play before the play clock runs out. A play is a play is a play. If a play must be run and an aggressive defense thinks there is a chance they can force a fumble -- no matter how slight the odds -- then it's hard to fault them for trying. I don't see why it needs to be assumed the defense should just lay down. Again, I'm not necessarily advocating what Schiano did and it ultimately is probably a stupid way to play it out, but I cannot entirely dismiss it, either. If a fumble was forced and Tampa got the ball back and scored and won, then it would look like a brilliant move. If the NFL doesn't want this then maybe they should allow an exception to the play clock in these instances and allow the offense to let the clock tick off to 0:00. The kneel down is a stupid play anyhow. Do away with it. I'd agree with more than 2 swings left it could serve a purpose. In the giants game, said 1 in a 1000 fumble would also have to have been returned for a td. At some point, the risk of injury and retaliation down the line outweighs that chance. If it were one score and time to recover and then throw a Hail Mary I'm not going to kill him but as is - he was wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaccof Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 I guess. I didnt stay up to watch the end of the game. I went to sleep thinking the Pats had won. But the mojo seems to be working (seroiusly) - Every time I turn to the game the Putz have a big drive and score, I turn the channel and then get out scored. I have no idea what to do Sunday. For the love of God, please do not watch the game.....don't even listen to it (just in case.....) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChasBB Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 (edited) Let's take a reasonable scenario. Let's say they're down by 3 on the opponents 20 with 30 seconds left. Then it might make sense. Still a long shot, but at least there's a chance. Doing it when you have no chance in hell is a different story. Again, I don't think it's that egregious, but I can't cast what he did, in the situation he did it in, in a positive light. Agree! I'd agree with more than 2 swings left it could serve a purpose. In the giants game, said 1 in a 1000 fumble would also have to have been returned for a td. At some point, the risk of injury and retaliation down the line outweighs that chance. If it were one score and time to recover and then throw a Hail Mary I'm not going to kill him but as is - he was wrong. Agree with this, too Edited September 24, 2012 by ChasBB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 I never realized there was this much stuff that went into the Miracle at the Meadowlands: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracle_at_the_Meadowlands#Friction_between_offensive_players_and_assistant_coaches Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts