San Jose Bills Fan Posted July 22, 2012 Author Share Posted July 22, 2012 I don't get where this opinion comes from? Agree. Jumping to conclusions before training camp even starts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 It's playoffs or bust for me. Even though I'd consider more wins improvement, it doesn't matter if you don't make the playoffs. Every season should be playoffs or bust. I'd agree. I don't think anyone figured Buffalo would make the post-season in 2010, and the chances in 2011 weren't high given the roster. But beginning this season and for the next few it should be playoffs or bust. You don't re-sign SJ, FJ, RF, then spend big in UFA on MW and MA and not expect to make the playoffs. It's unfathomable that RW would spend that kind of cash and not expect a post-season win, let alone an appearance. It's time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pork Sword Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 You joined aug 03...and almost 10 years later decide to post? Actually, I had around 500 posts but haven't posted in a while. For some reason, I was restarted back to zero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted July 22, 2012 Author Share Posted July 22, 2012 Actually, I had around 500 posts but haven't posted in a while. For some reason, I was restarted back to zero. I thought so because I remembered your "handle." Always thought it was kinda funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincec Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 Agree. Jumping to conclusions before training camp even starts. Kelsay was rotating with the first team during mini-camp. Since he's seen as the best run defender of the three, I suspect that Kelsay will get a strong look as the "starter" with Anderson coming in on passing downs. My theory on Merriman is that if he looks good the Bills will take out Dareus on some passing downs and slide M Williams to DT so that you have Merriman, M Williams, K Williams and Anderson. I would be very surprised if there is a clear starter at RDE this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 Kelsay was rotating with the first team during mini-camp. Since he's seen as the best run defender of the three, I suspect that Kelsay will get a strong look as the "starter" with Anderson coming in on passing downs. My theory on Merriman is that if he looks good the Bills will take out Dareus on some passing downs and slide M Williams to DT so that you have Merriman, M Williams, K Williams and Anderson. I would be very surprised if there is a clear starter at RDE this season. I thought Merriman himself expressed a great attitude about this: “Whenever you can play football you play football and it is up to the coaches,” he said. “Let the coaches go out and decide where they need the guys at. As long as everybody has that same mind frame and knows that's the case then we will be good. If you can play football and go out and contribute to the team then the coaches will find somewhere for you to be.” PS the linked article describes Merriman as playing RDE in the nickle package so your theory may have reality behind it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 I can see some of the perennial powers taking a step back in 2012… just yesterday I made the case that The Cheatriots**** on offense are a team in decline and that their drafting from 2006-2009 was dreadful. The difference between the Patsies**** and the Ravens and Steelers is that the latter two teams draft well and have continued to draft well. Both teams have not drafted for need as much as they've gone for the most talented players available. It's the emphasis of the best player available philosophy that has allowed the Ravens to draft guys like Terrence Cody, Courtney Upshaw, Tommy Streeter, Sergio Kindle, Torrey Smith and Jimmy Smith as very strong values. Same with Pittsburgh and David DeCastro, Maurkice Pouncey, Cam Heyward, and others. I disagree with the above. Pitt has had problems with their OL for a few years, this with a star qb to protect. Let's look at their drafts: 2009 - 2nd round OL (btw, Kraig Urbik) 2010 - 1st and 5th round OL 2011 - 2nd and 5th round OL 2012 - 1st and 2nd round OL Btw, this is a huge part of why the Steelers are strong, and I like their philosophy. My point is that the entire "bpa" thing in general is far from etched in stone. When a team has true needs, they must be addressed. If not, said team will wind up like the Bills of the article you posted about the final cuts. A team that puts it's resources into dbs and rbs, is void of talent, and loses football games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted July 23, 2012 Author Share Posted July 23, 2012 I can see some of the perennial powers taking a step back in 2012… just yesterday I made the case that The Cheatriots**** on offense are a team in decline and that their drafting from 2006-2009 was dreadful. The difference between the Patsies**** and the Ravens and Steelers is that the latter two teams draft well and have continued to draft well. Both teams have not drafted for need as much as they've gone for the most talented players available. It's the emphasis of the best player available philosophy that has allowed the Ravens to draft guys like Terrence Cody, Courtney Upshaw, Tommy Streeter, Sergio Kindle, Torrey Smith and Jimmy Smith as very strong values. Same with Pittsburgh and David DeCastro, Maurkice Pouncey, Cam Heyward, and others. Pittsburgh and Baltimore have mastered the practice of plucking good players in their late value slots while the Cheating Bastards***** still tend to reach for need. I look for Baltimore and Pittsburgh to remain strong but I do expect New England to step backwards a notch. I disagree with the above. Pitt has had problems with their OL for a few years, this with a star qb to protect. Let's look at their drafts: 2009 - 2nd round OL (btw, Kraig Urbik) 2010 - 1st and 5th round OL 2011 - 2nd and 5th round OL 2012 - 1st and 2nd round OL Btw, this is a huge part of why the Steelers are strong, and I like their philosophy. My point is that the entire "bpa" thing in general is far from etched in stone. When a team has true needs, they must be addressed. If not, said team will wind up like the Bills of the article you posted about the final cuts. A team that puts it's resources into dbs and rbs, is void of talent, and loses football games. I'll post only once more on this subject. As has been argued many times ad nauseum, it's never ALL BPA or ALL need. It's always a bit of both. So lets not dredge up that bipolar debate. Yet again. I stick to my original point. Pittsburgh and Baltimore have a habit of drafting late because they're always good but unlike New England, they invariably take players who are considered excellent values at the time of their picks. They don't try to "outsmart" the competition like the Cheatriots*** tend to. When the Steelers took Ziggy Hood 32nd overall in 2009 they didn't need a DE but he was the highest-rated player available. Pouncey and DeCastro were the highest-rated players when they were selected. You can go back and cherry pick all you want and I could do the same. But I've made my case as have you so I guess we'll continue to disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 I'll post only once more on this subject. As has been argued many times ad nauseum, it's never ALL BPA or ALL need. It's always a bit of both. So lets not dredge up that bipolar debate. Yet again. I stick to my original point. Pittsburgh and Baltimore have a habit of drafting late because they're always good but unlike New England, they invariably take players who are considered excellent values at the time of their picks. They don't try to "outsmart" the competition like the Cheatriots*** tend to. When the Steelers took Ziggy Hood 32nd overall in 2009 they didn't need a DE but he was the highest-rated player available. Pouncey and DeCastro were the highest-rated players when they were selected. You can go back and cherry pick all you want and I could do the same. But I've made my case as have you so I guess we'll continue to disagree. I'm unsure as to why your tone is so defensive and bordering on hostile. You cited "bpa," and switched to "value," which btw is also quite hypothetical. But this is fine. SJB, we are just talking football. It would suck if we couldn't point out facts, and even theories to each other. We don't need a pure consensus. Dialogue is the thing in a place like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 dialogue is what made our early democracy so great back in the day. When gentleman were free to make their points. and then were seriously considered by his peers. Disagreements were reached. and reviewed etc. But at the end of the day the gentlemen wished the others a good evening and a till tomorrow then! We got a little of that here i notice sometimes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted July 24, 2012 Author Share Posted July 24, 2012 I'm unsure as to why your tone is so defensive and bordering on hostile. You cited "bpa," and switched to "value," which btw is also quite hypothetical. But this is fine. SJB, we are just talking football. It would suck if we couldn't point out facts, and even theories to each other. We don't need a pure consensus. Dialogue is the thing in a place like this. Sorry for the tone of my writing. I got a bit annoyed because there were the usual 20 or so (exaggerating of course) BPA vs Need threads before the draft. It's perhaps the most hackneyed argument on this forum and kinda the last in-depth discussion I want to embark on after the draft. It almost goes without saying IMO that when a person says BPA or Need that they are saying it in a relative sense. I just wanted to point out that the Steelers and Ravens seem to draft very differently than the Cheatriots****. It's obvious to me if it isn't to others. Perhaps a figment of my imagination but when you look at the horrendous New England drafting from 2006-2009, you can see the 2 first rounders, 4 second rounders, and 4 3rd rounders that busted for them and you can see that all of those guys were reaches based on the consensus… that for some reason the Cheaters**** somehow felt that they were better evaluators than the other teams. The Steelers and Ravens rarely make surprise picks. They usually take the guys that everyone else is saying "God_____, I can't believe ______ slid to the Ravens/Steelers" You almost never get that with the Patsies****. Often with New England**** you end up scratching your head although it seems that the 2010 and 2011 drafts are better than the 4 years preceding. BTW, I'm not really sure why you seem to attach the word consensus to my posts (you did this last year during an O-line thread). I couldn't care less about consensus. The fact that I occasionally become passionate in advocating for my own view does not equate to me fighting for a consensus. It's always pleasant when people can find common ground in their views but if it doesn't happen, I couldn't care less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Sorry for the tone of my writing. I got a bit annoyed because there were the usual 20 or so (exaggerating of course) BPA vs Need threads before the draft. It's perhaps the most hackneyed argument on this forum and kinda the last in-depth discussion I want to embark on after the draft. It almost goes without saying IMO that when a person says BPA or Need that they are saying it in a relative sense. I just wanted to point out that the Steelers and Ravens seem to draft very differently than the Cheatriots****. It's obvious to me if it isn't to others. Perhaps a figment of my imagination but when you look at the horrendous New England drafting from 2006-2009, you can see the 2 first rounders, 4 second rounders, and 4 3rd rounders that busted for them and you can see that all of those guys were reaches based on the consensus… that for some reason the Cheaters**** somehow felt that they were better evaluators than the other teams. The Steelers and Ravens rarely make surprise picks. They usually take the guys that everyone else is saying "God_____, I can't believe ______ slid to the Ravens/Steelers" You almost never get that with the Patsies****. Often with New England**** you end up scratching your head although it seems that the 2010 and 2011 drafts are better than the 4 years preceding. BTW, I'm not really sure why you seem to attach the word consensus to my posts (you did this last year during an O-line thread). I couldn't care less about consensus. The fact that I occasionally become passionate in advocating for my own view does not equate to me fighting for a consensus. It's always pleasant when people can find common ground in their views but if it doesn't happen, I couldn't care less. OK, fair enough. Most of us are probably a bit TOO passionate about this team, ya know? And yes, the bpa vs need thing is trite, if not fully explained, and this would take page after page to do so. In terms of the draft, I give emphasis to the positions at which it is extremely hard to get great players. This of course would be QB, LT, and pass rushing DE. But, a player such as Dareus, if he gets even better, can make life great for a DE, and I think that this had some influence in terms of MW signing with us. So there are plenty of factors, and I see this. Btw, wrt the steelers, imo a big reason for their success is that they play to their climate. They have a tough qb with a strong arm, and big, strong players on their defensive front. Now, they are trying to shore up their line. It looks like Nix is trying to follow suit. I hope so. I have Bills PTSD from Jauron/Levy lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 oh, thanks. I never lived in the south. This comment made me crack up histarically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted July 25, 2012 Author Share Posted July 25, 2012 (edited) OK, fair enough. Most of us are probably a bit TOO passionate about this team, ya know? And yes, the bpa vs need thing is trite, if not fully explained, and this would take page after page to do so. In terms of the draft, I give emphasis to the positions at which it is extremely hard to get great players. This of course would be QB, LT, and pass rushing DE. But, a player such as Dareus, if he gets even better, can make life great for a DE, and I think that this had some influence in terms of MW signing with us. So there are plenty of factors, and I see this. Btw, wrt the steelers, imo a big reason for their success is that they play to their climate. They have a tough qb with a strong arm, and big, strong players on their defensive front. Now, they are trying to shore up their line. It looks like Nix is trying to follow suit. I hope so. I have Bills PTSD from Jauron/Levy lol. BTW, besides the subject matter, I was in a grumpy mood for some reason yesterday morning. Sorry, Bill. Anyways I agree with your points on the Dareus effect and team building. I love that Gailey has a Pittsburgh history and that the Bills plucked Kraig Urbik after the Steelers cut him. I feel like we have a front office now that doesn't have to have an inferiority complex when measuring themselves against other organizations. Edited July 25, 2012 by San Jose Bills Fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 BTW, besides the subject matter, I was in a grumpy mood for some reason yesterday morning. Sorry, Bill. Anyways I agree with your points on the Dareus effect and team building. I love that Gailey has a Pittsburgh history and that the Bills plucked Kraig Urbik after the Steelers cut him. I feel like we have a front office now that doesn't have to have an inferiority complex when measuring themselves against other organizations. Don't forget Nix also "plucked" Whaley from the Steeler organization. The current and future health of the Bills' front office really looks strong. Hey, we're all grumpy now and then. Just get me within 100 yards of a post by paintmyhouse and I'm ready to rumble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted July 25, 2012 Author Share Posted July 25, 2012 Don't forget Nix also "plucked" Whaley from the Steeler organization. The current and future health of the Bills' front office really looks strong. Hey, we're all grumpy now and then. Just get me within 100 yards of a post by paintmyhouse and I'm ready to rumble. Yep. That kid's parents didn't raise him right… or they did but he came out wrong for some biological reason. I'd hold him on the ground and tickle him for awhile… give him a couple of noogies… Then I'd fart on him a few times. Dumb punk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 since Whaley has gained Nix's trust and has been empowered we are starting to get a real personality at 1 Bills drive. A darn good one at that. Lets hope Ralph sees his dream realized in time. Being a Homer myself i think it's in the cards for all of us. This year should be great and i think we will have a season to remember here. All the horses seem to be pulling in the same direction. Somehow we have finally hired the right people at the top and is trickling all way the down to the kick off specialist Potter. Steelers strength in my mind was/is the ability to field a strong team year after year. Paintmyhouse at least is an amusing character at times. whether on purpose? not sure. I stick to my original point. Pittsburgh and Baltimore have a habit of drafting late because they're always good but unlike New England, they invariably take players who are considered excellent values at the time of their picks. They don't try to "outsmart" the competition like the Cheatriots*** tend to. When the Steelers took Ziggy Hood 32nd overall in 2009 they didn't need a DE but he was the highest-rated player available. Pouncey and DeCastro were the highest-rated players when they were selected. The Steelers have been in the position to pick BPA. Due to the quality depth i suppose. I expect next year, at least right now, that we will not need to draft for need as we have the last couple years. This last round was really adept at filling gaps in the armor for the offense and defense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 1343215445[/url]' post='2512580']Don't forget Nix also "plucked" Whaley from the Steeler organization. The current and future health of the Bills' front office really looks strong. Hey, we're all grumpy now and then. Just get me within 100 yards of a post by paintmyhouse and I'm ready to rumble. Agree on both points. Whaley may not be in front of a mic, but Buddy didn't bring him here to ride the pine. Nor would he stay if that were the case. I believe he's far more involved in personnel decisionsthan we're likely to know about for a couple years. For me, it's playoffs or bust this year and going forward. As for cracked paint, his thread went Buh- bye. Think he'll get the message?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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