Claiborne gets a 4 in the wonderlic

[3rdand12]

I was being nice because i'm one of those kinda folks that tends to like everyone and will give respect upfront first. unless you piss me off. a story for another day perhaps.

But this kid seemed too nice to call idiot. his phrasing seemed scripted but he was paying attention. And his smile was genuine and heck us dumb guys are a happy bunch usually. now where did i put that damn wonderlic this time?

[JoeF]

The "leaking" of this info on this kid will have zero impact on his draft position. Any GM who changes his draft score on a player on April 3rd based on a wonderlic is likely amonst the least intellignet GMs in history.

 

Also, is it even possible that any GM does not aready know that a possible top 10 pick has a learning disability.

 

This is all nonsense. The kid will be fine. (I'm leaving out the foolishness of drafting a CB in the top 10 for purposes of discussion of the OP).

 

 

Most GM's who would draft Claiborne are on bad teams with little job security.

Most owners would not want to invest a top tier pick in a kid with a 4.

Owners pay the GM. Fans put pressure on the team to perform (unless you are a Bills fan).

The leaking of this puts pressure on a thin ice GM not to risk this pick because the owner and fans will say--"How could you draft a kid who scored a four?" if Claiborne is a bust.

 

Yes it will impact where he is drafted...not for football reasons but by owner and fan pressure for GM's whose job security is tenative.

 

Just my opinion.

[Geno Smith's Arm]

A lot of the interview sounded like he was giving prepackaged responses and standard-issue football cliches. Not that that makes his interview substantially different than 90+ % of the player or coach interviews which occur!

 

That said, I agree he sounded more intelligent than a 4 on the Wonderlic would imply.

Compared to McKelvin, he seems eloquent. I hope he falls to the Bills. The Bills will have a better gauge of how sharp he is from interviewing him themselves.

[Beastly Dareus]

The Wonderlic scores are supposed to be confidential by NFL policy but they still get leaked every year. Is there a federal law though on maintaining test score secrecy? If there was one, I doubt we would see these leaks.

 

Yes, the federal law to protect student test scores is FERPA (Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act). The wonderlic scores get released through the media who seem to not be able to keep their mouths shut and same goes with some team front office personal.

 

Its something the NFL needs to fix and address.

[NoSaint]

Yes, the federal law to protect student test scores is FERPA (Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act). The wonderlic scores get released through the media who seem to not be able to keep their mouths shut and same goes with some team front office personal.

 

Its something the NFL needs to fix and address.

 

I don't believe this would be covered, but I'm no expert.

[Sisyphean Bills]

Maybe he read about the negative correlation between Wonderlic scores and the performance of defensive backs and decided to blow the bottom off the curve intentionally?

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Fitz recorded a nearly perfect score on his test (I think it was 49 out of 50), while both Jim Kelly and Dan Marino, I believe, scored under 20. Who would you rather have quarterbacking your team?

Yes, but we're talking about a 4, not a 17.

 

If he should drop to the Bills, I hope they do not take him...

Don't we already have a CB currently on the team now with great athletic ability who can not put a sentence together??? ... He has left his jock on the field too many times with receivers out foxing him ... He too had a very low Wonderlic score... That to me is a warning sign for not being able to learn... I hope the Bills let him go to someone else ......

From the link that ….lybob provided he seems like a typical college football player. It didn't appear that he was having trouble speaking at all.

 

The maturity of a bunch of people in this thread is really embarrassing. Do alittle research in the circumstances of the Claiborne case before insulting him.

 

Grow the heck up people, some of you older people on this board are pretty darn incompetent and immature. Mo Claiborne has a known learning disability that has been known since he was a high school star. He received special help in reading and writing in both college and high school. That has not affected his play on the football field. He is a great character and a very talented CB.

 

 

Also, Great defensive backs such as Darrell Revis scored a 9 on the wonderlick test and look at his play. Sean Taylor scored a 10. Patrick Peterson scored a 9. You don't need to be a genius to play CB in the NFL.

 

Hall of Fame QB, Dan Marino scored a 14. Point is, I doubt many of these athletes care enough to seriously take the wonderlic test especially those who play positions where is doesn't really matter.

 

Lastly, all the so called adults that made your insulting remarks in this thread should be ashamed of yourselves. God forbid that you guys have a child with a learning disability. And God forbid any of you even have children, I can sense the moral lessons you teach your children. What a shame today's society is.

It's spelled Wonderlic.

 

And apparently most of us are bad people.

[prissythecat]

Yes, the federal law to protect student test scores is FERPA (Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act). The wonderlic scores get released through the media who seem to not be able to keep their mouths shut and same goes with some team front office personal.

 

Its something the NFL needs to fix and address.

 

 

Ah. That law applies to educational institutions not the NFL.

[Beastly Dareus]

It's spelled Wonderlic.

 

And apparently most of us are bad people.

 

O now its the spell checker

 

your pathetic man. Wow I added a "k" to the end of it. Notice I spelled it correct the other times I mentioned it

 

 

Ah. That law applies to educational institutions not the NFL.

 

You asked if there was a federal law to protect test score secrecy, so I named one

 

But to be serious wonderlic scores aren't "suppose" to be released. And Im pretty certain it could translate to an intentional tort case involving invasion of privacy or false light if Claiborne's family have good lawyers. And especially in this case since Claiborne has a learning disability.

Edited April 4, 2012 by Beastly Dareus

[Ozymandius]

He might just be really clever. From a publicity standpoint, scoring a 4 was great. I don't know who scored the highest or in the middle or anything else. I know Claibore scored a 4.

[Jtowntobuffalo]

I went to school with a few people who had learning disabiltys. They required individual education plans that for example needed all test read to them. Some people's brains just learn information different. One of those "special education" kids ended up going to Yale on a partial academic scholarship.

 

Could you imagine walking into to a test with the best football players in the country and asking to have special accommodations and have the test read to you. Wouldn't happen, you would take the test listen to the world mock your stupidity and then explain your disabilty to teams.

 

I am not saying this is the case but I wouldn't judge him yet. Why they even have this test is beyond me. You can learn everything you need to know about a persons intellect from a 1 on 1 interview. Teams will find out from his meetings if he is inteligent enough to play in the NFL if there doing there jobs.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

O now its the spell checker

 

your pathetic man. Wow I added a "k" to the end of it. Notice I spelled it correct the other times I mentioned it

 

 

 

 

You asked if there was a federal law to protect test score secrecy, so I named one

 

But to be serious wonderlic scores aren't "suppose" to be released. And Im pretty certain it could translate to an intentional tort case involving invasion of privacy or false light if Claiborne's family have good lawyers. And especially in this case since Claiborne has a learning disability.

Yeah, you are obviously a person of high virtue and great moral fiber.

 

I hope I can be as wonderful as you someday.

Edited April 4, 2012 by San Jose Bills Fan

[NoSaint]

O now its the spell checker

 

your pathetic man. Wow I added a "k" to the end of it. Notice I spelled it correct the other times I mentioned it

 

 

 

 

You asked if there was a federal law to protect test score secrecy, so I named one

 

But to be serious wonderlic scores aren't "suppose" to be released. And Im pretty certain it could translate to an intentional tort case involving invasion of privacy or false light if Claiborne's family have good lawyers. And especially in this case since Claiborne has a learning disability.

 

Come on - you had no idea before you got called out, and you still have no idea what privacy is promised to these guys. All you do know is you heard they weren't supposed to be public.

[NoSaint]

Shame on those of you who poked fun at Claiborne. Try to be as good a person as Beastly Dareus.

 

Doesn't he know you're learning disabled?

[Beastly Dareus]

Come on - you had no idea before you got called out, and you still have no idea what privacy is promised to these guys. All you do know is you heard they weren't supposed to be public.

 

I was called out? He asked if there was any laws that protect test score secrecy then I answered his question with FERPA

 

If the scores aren't suppose to be released then there has to be an amount of privacy promised to the players. His wonderlic scores were publicized along with his learning disability. You don't have to be a lawyer to figure out that is a invasion of privacy and/or false light charge.

[NoSaint]

I was called out? He asked if there was any laws that protect test score secrecy then I answered his question with FERPA

 

If the scores aren't suppose to be released then there has to be an amount of privacy promised to the players. His wonderlic scores were publicized along with his learning disability. You don't have to be a lawyer to figure out that is a invasion of privacy and/or false light charge.

 

Honestly, these kids aren't covered by the CBA or any nflpa negotiation here if I recall correctly - that could be wrong though. I just thought I remembered last year that essentially the moment they were drafted they became locked out members of the labor dispute. I'm not 100% sure if this is just an nfl courtesy not to release them (primarily motivated by the fact that they might be embarrassed by a lot more scores) or if they enter any privacy agreement with these kids when they take it. Feel free to enlighten me on that though, I actually am genuinely curious at this point. It's certainly not covered by the first laws you cited though.

[Beastly Dareus]

Shame on those of you who poked fun at Claiborne. Try to be as good a person as Beastly Dareus.

 

It's amusing you find it "ok" to insult or poke fun of someone with a disability. Then someone who has morals and speaks out against it (pretty darn proud I had real parents who disciplined me that way) you decide to give that person a hard time. But the only comebacks you have is to find a typo and spell check error and poke fun at the person with moral dignity.

 

You honestly have no life Mr. San Jose Bills Fan.

Edited April 4, 2012 by Beerball

[San Jose Bills Fan]

It's amusing you find it "ok" to insult or poke fun of someone with a disability. Then someone who has morals and speaks out against it (pretty darn proud I had real parents who disciplined me that way) you decide to give that person a hard time. But the only comebacks you have is to find a typo and spell check error and poke fun at the person with moral dignity.

 

You honestly have no life Mr. San Jose Bills Fan.

I poked fun at a person with a disability?

 

That's weird. I don't remember doing that.

 

As for your last sentence, who better to judge the character of others than yourself?

 

I'm happy for you that you have morals and real parents… and the ability to judge total strangers and and make insulting remarks to them.

 

 

[Beastly Dareus]

Honestly, these kids aren't covered by the CBA or any nflpa negotiation here if I recall correctly - that could be wrong though. I just thought I remembered last year that essentially the moment they were drafted they became locked out members of the labor dispute. I'm not 100% sure if this is just an nfl courtesy not to release them (primarily motivated by the fact that they might be embarrassed by a lot more scores) or if they enter any privacy agreement with these kids when they take it. Feel free to enlighten me on that though, I actually am genuinely curious at this point. It's certainly not covered by the first laws you cited though.

 

I didn't say FERPA covered covered this. I mentioned FERPA as a law that protected "test score secrecy".

 

However, once again the NFL has said wonderlic scores are not suppose to be publicized. I remember specifically reading about how the NFL has safeguards in place to protect that information. In addition, I understand that there are suppose to be penalties if teams let that information out into the public. Bus Cook, an NFL agent, in a interview today said the same thing. If that is true, then intentional tort laws in the category of invasion of privacy and false light do cover this.

 

I do not know the circumstances behind "why" the NFL has the policy. I would assume like you, that it is due to courtesy or embarrassment. Or maybe event in cases like MO Claiborne, it is designed to protect players with learning disabilities from dealing with the topic in the public. There have been a decent amount of players with learning disabilities to play in the NFL, most recently - Ellis Lankster (Bills draft pick).

 

As to the CBA or NFLPA not covering them.... aren't they covered under the CBA once they hire an agent and declare for draft eligibility? I was under that impression. I may be wrong though?

[NoSaint]

I didn't say FERPA covered covered this. I mentioned FERPA as a law that protected "test score secrecy".

 

However, once again the NFL has said wonderlic scores are not suppose to be publicized. I remember specifically reading about how the NFL has safeguards in place to protect that information. In addition, I understand that there are suppose to be penalties if teams let that information out into the public. Bus Cook, an NFL agent, in a interview today said the same thing. If that is true, then intentional tort laws in the category of invasion of privacy and false light do cover this.

 

I do not know the circumstances behind "why" the NFL has the policy. I would assume like you, that it is due to courtesy or embarrassment. Or maybe event in cases like MO Claiborne, it is designed to protect players with learning disabilities from dealing with the topic in the public. There have been a decent amount of players with learning disabilities to play in the NFL, most recently - Ellis Lankster (Bills draft pick).

 

As to the CBA or NFLPA not covering them.... aren't they covered under the CBA once they hire an agent and declare for draft eligibility? I was under that impression. I may be wrong though?

 

I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure they aren't under the CBA until draft day. Hiring an agent wouldn't make me an nflpa member.

 

Further, depending on what coverages are in place I'd venture what Claiborne has as far as recourse could vary hugely. If the nfl just tells its teams not to release it, but doesn't promise the players it won't be released.... Although theres still some expectation of privacy, I imagine it wouldn't be the same as entering a confidentiality agreement with the player directly. The person could be punished under their contract with the nfl for violating a workplace rule but that doesnt mean MC has a lockdown case (I really don't know the law there).

 

And why did you quote a law that has absolutely nothing to do with the discussion at hand unless you thought it applied somehow? As an aside, it just doesn't make sense.

[Beastly Dareus]

I poked fun at a person with a disability?

 

That's weird. I don't remember doing that.

 

As for your last sentence, who better to judge the character of others than yourself?

 

I'm happy for you that you have morals and real parents… and the ability to judge total strangers and and make insulting remarks to them.

 

what?

 

you clearly have either not read this thread or you just absolutely do not make any sense (maybe your drinking?). 1.) I never said you poked fun at someone with a disability, I said you are condoning it. and 2.) I haven't insulted anyone.

 

Your the one that responded to me trying to insult me (because I had a typo) and supported the guys that were poking fun at a guy with a disability. In essence you were condoning it by responding negatively to my post. You had no business responding to my post, but you had to go out of your way to correct a typo of a word that was spelled correctly throughout the rest of the post.

Edited April 4, 2012 by Beastly Dareus

[Beastly Dareus]

I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure they aren't under the CBA until draft day. Hiring an agent wouldn't make me an nflpa member.

 

Further, depending on what coverages are in place I'd venture what Claiborne has as far as recourse could vary hugely. If the nfl just tells its teams not to release it, but doesn't promise the players it won't be released.... Although theres still some expectation of privacy, I imagine it wouldn't be the same as entering a confidentiality agreement with the player directly. The person could be punished under their contract with the nfl for violating a workplace rule but that doesnt mean MC has a lockdown case (I really don't know the law there).

 

And why did you quote a law that has absolutely nothing to do with the discussion at hand unless you thought it applied somehow? As an aside, it just doesn't make sense.

 

Come on- read all of my post. Do I have to repeat myself for a 3rd time? If you look back through the thread, someone asked "Is there a federal law that protects test score secrecy?" Once again, I said "yes, the FERPA laws protect student privacy."

 

Also, of course if you hired an agent, it wouldn't make you an NFLPA member, lol. But yeah, it probably would make more sense that the CBA doesn't cover draft eligible players until draft day. I thought I remember something about when a player hires an agent and declares for the draft, once they start going through the draft process then they are covered under the CBA. Its something, we could ask an expert like John Wawrow.

 

But in the end, invasion of privacy doesn't require any promise to protect privacy anyways. I mean the defense could argue that there was no duty to care and that Claiborne assumed the risk of declaring himself for the draft. However, the fact that he has a learning disability is a private fact and has no business to be released. Its kinda like when a marketing firm uses a players likeliness or image to promote its product, the player can sue for invasion of privacy intentional tort of appropriation.

Edited April 4, 2012 by Beastly Dareus

[San Jose Bills Fan]

The maturity of a bunch of people in this thread is really embarrassing. Do alittle research in the circumstances of the Claiborne case before insulting him.

 

Grow the heck up people, some of you older people on this board are pretty darn incompetent and immature. Mo Claiborne has a known learning disability that has been known since he was a high school star. He received special help in reading and writing in both college and high school. That has not affected his play on the football field. He is a great character and a very talented CB.

 

 

Also, Great defensive backs such as Darrell Revis scored a 9 on the wonderlick test and look at his play. Sean Taylor scored a 10. Patrick Peterson scored a 9. You don't need to be a genius to play CB in the NFL.

 

Hall of Fame QB, Dan Marino scored a 14. Point is, I doubt many of these athletes care enough to seriously take the wonderlic test especially those who play positions where is doesn't really matter.

 

Lastly, all the so called adults that made your insulting remarks in this thread should be ashamed of yourselves. God forbid that you guys have a child with a learning disability. And God forbid any of you even have children, I can sense the moral lessons you teach your children. What a shame today's society is.

 

what?

 

you clearly have either not read this thread or you just absolutely do not make any sense (maybe your drinking?). 1.) I never said you poked fun at someone with a disability, I said you are condoning it. and 2.) I haven't insulted anyone.

 

Your the one that responded to me trying to insult me (because I had a typo) and support the guys that were poking fun at a guy with a disability. In essence you were condoning it by responding negatively to my post. You had no business responding to my post, but you had to go out of your way to correct a typo of a word that was spelled correctly throughout the rest of the post.

If you read your first comment in this topic and subsequent ones, it's pretty clear how absurdly sanctimonious you're being.

 

Presumably you don't know any of the people here and yet you represent yourself as somehow being a better person than others?

 

How do you get to pass judgement on the character of others from the witnessing of one topic thread?

 

Does it cross your mind that good people can sometimes do questionable things or that even an egregious act doesn't make someone a bad person.

 

Spare me your proselytizing about my character or the character of others.

 

On the topic of insults:

 

I can't speak for the others on the comments you made about "immaturity," "incompetence," "being ashamed of ourselves," or raising children.

 

As for myself, no I rarely drink and am not drinking at this moment.

 

Yes I too have real parents.

 

Yes, I was raised with a great deal of discipline.

 

No, I'm not a "moron internet tough boy" although you calling me one certainly gives one pause to consider why you would call someone that pejorative name.

 

No, I'm not "pathetic" and yes, I have a life, in fact a very good one which I've worked very hard and have been very fortunate to live.

 

No, I'm not Mr Spell Checker. I typically correct the spelling of others only if they are insufferably judgmental and holier-than-thou or if I happened at the time to be poking fun at them.

 

 

[Dragonborn10]

But because he is a well rounded student athlete he gets a scholarship... Who took his SAT? Would love to see his college papers. He should be the test case for just paying these guys and end the farce of going to classes.

[Beastly Dareus]

If you read your first comment in this topic and subsequent ones, it's pretty clear how absurdly sanctimonious you're being.

Presumably you don't know any of the people here and yet you represent yourself as somehow being a better person than others?

How do you get to pass judgement on the character of others from the witnessing of one topic thread?

Does it cross your mind that good people can sometimes do questionable things or that even an egregious act doesn't make someone a bad person.

Spare me your proselytizing about my character or the character of others.

On the topic of insults:

I can't speak for the others on the comments you made about "immaturity," "incompetence," "being ashamed of ourselves," or raising children.

As for myself, no I rarely drink and am not drinking at this moment.

Yes I too have real parents.

Yes, I was raised with a great deal of discipline.

No, I'm not a "moron internet tough boy" although you calling me one certainly gives one pause to consider why you would call someone that pejorative name.

No, I'm not "pathetic" and yes, I have a life, in fact a very good one which I've worked very hard and have been very fortunate to live.

No, I'm not Mr Spell Checker. I typically correct the spelling of others only if they are insufferably judgmental and holier-than-thou or if I happened at the time to be poking fun at them.

 

I find it funny, your the only person that found that post to be bad. A few others commented on how good of a post it was. And one person responded by on the argument that Bills fans might be questioning Claiborne ability because we don't want another mistake.

 

If you believe that it is "ok" for people to sit here and poke fun and continue to insult someone with a learning disability, then no you do not have good character. I find it funny you consider me to be the bad guy for speaking out against it. I bet its also safe to say you would judge someone to speak up against bullying to being "absurdly sanctimonious" because they are "somehow being a better person than others." And you insult me because I'm proud that my moral and ethical nature would restrain me from making the types of comments that were made in this thread?

 

Your the one who responded to a conversation that did not involve you. And you responded with an insult and immature "spell check" comment, which is indeed pathetic and a small personal slam. In response I defended myself. I never directed any comment at you saying you did not have real parents or weren't raised with discipline (maybe you could infer from my wording that's what I meant, but it was a slam to the people in this thread that were responsible for the comments about Claiborne). And yes you are an internet tough boy, stirring up arguments over the inter webs when my comment pertained to you. Maybe I shouldn't have said you have no life, that was uncalled for. However, yes I called you: immature and pathetic because that's exactly how you responded.

 

Have a good day sir

 

[NOTE: If you want to respond then send me a message, because I'm done responding to you here. Its a waste of energy.]

Edited April 4, 2012 by Beastly Dareus

[Formerly Allan in MD]

Student athlete.

[Reks Ryan]

Thank you San Jose. Give us break Beastly. The comments on Claiborne were pretty tame. learning disability or not, unless he can't read at all, he could still do a little prep and score at least a 10. Yes you can prep for standardized tests. Considering the Wonderlic is a known part of a multimillion dollar interview process, it's just lazy. The criticism is deserved.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

You're trying to rationalize that you weren't insulting people when the fact is that you admonished people for what you consider their immature and incompetent behavior.

 

Then you proceeded to call me names and again, you're rationalizing as to why you did so.

 

 

Interesting world you live in.

 

As for "responding to a conversation that did not involve me," correct me if I'm wrong but this is an internet message board.

 

Do I need someone's permission to join a conversation?

[Overseas Bills Fan]

http://espn.go.com/page2/s/closer/020228test.html for example questions

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/04/03/claiborne-gives-birth-to-a-four-on-the-wonderlic/ for the report on this

 

 

Ohhhhhkayyyy

 

He can STILL tie his own shoes....right?

 

I missed #11 because I am a horrible at math. 14/15. I guess my German Shepherd can also score a four.

[mrags]

"see this shoe? It says ADIDAS!"

[NoSaint]

You're trying to rationalize that you weren't insulting people when the fact is that you admonished people for what you consider their immature and incompetent behavior.

 

Then you proceeded to call me names and again, you're rationalizing as to why you did so.

 

 

Interesting world you live in.

 

As for "responding to a conversation that did not involve me," correct me if I'm wrong but this is an internet message board.

 

Do I need someone's permission to join a conversation?

Honest opinion - I'm guessing either he or someone close has struggled with a learning disability. Between the too close to home reaction and rattling off the protection act like second nature.... He's obviously got some connection to the issue. Though he's had some absurd comments, I'm leaning towards cutting some slack on some of the knee jerk comments. I could be wrong on that guess, but I don't think I am.

[mrags]

I find it funny, your the only person that found that post to be bad. A few others commented on how good of a post it was. And one person responded by on the argument that Bills fans might be questioning Claiborne ability because we don't want another mistake.

 

If you believe that it is "ok" for people to sit here and poke fun and continue to insult someone with a learning disability, then no you do not have good character. I find it funny you consider me to be the bad guy for speaking out against it. I bet its also safe to say you would judge someone to speak up against bullying to being "absurdly sanctimonious" because they are "somehow being a better person than others." And you insult me because I'm proud that my moral and ethical nature would restrain me from making the types of comments that were made in this thread?

 

Your the one who responded to a conversation that did not involve you. And you responded with an insult and immature "spell check" comment, which is indeed pathetic and a small personal slam. In response I defended myself. I never directed any comment at you saying you did not have real parents or weren't raised with discipline (maybe you could infer from my wording that's what I meant, but it was a slam to the people in this thread that were responsible for the comments about Claiborne). And yes you are an internet tough boy, stirring up arguments over the inter webs when my comment pertained to you. Maybe I shouldn't have said you have no life, that was uncalled for. However, yes I called you: immature and pathetic because that's exactly how you responded.

 

Have a good day sir

 

[NOTE: If you want to respond then send me a message, because I'm done responding to you here. Its a waste of energy.]

Um ok. How bout this for some thought. I could care less about the kids learning disability. If he foes in fact have one that you say he foes, then great for him for battling that and still succeeding to the point he is at today. But at the end of the day, I want smart, educated, good descision makers on my team. Not saying he's not one or all three, but I'd rather not take the chance. If you ran your own company and had to chose who to hire out of somebody that scored an 8 or a 90 on a simple test who would you chose? All things being equal of course. You can't say that he's a genuinely nice person, a great personality, a great player on the field as an argument because there are hundreds of other CBs coming out of college that you can say that about and they might have scored higher than a 4 on a simple test.

 

All jokes and opinions aside at the end of the day you can get someone else with his skill, maturity, personality, etc... That doesn't have question marks. Just saying.

[Beastly Dareus]

Honest opinion - I'm guessing either he or someone close has struggled with a learning disability. Between the too close to home reaction and rattling off the protection act like second nature.... He's obviously got some connection to the issue. Though he's had some absurd comments, I'm leaning towards cutting some slack on some of the knee jerk comments. I could be wrong on that guess, but I don't think I am.

 

All three of my younger brothers have learning disabilities

 

Also, absurd comments? I have only spoken up against the insults and questioned the moral and ethical nature of some people on this forum. And there were a few people that responded by saying my post was great. The absurd comments came from those poking fun at and further insulting someone with a learning disability.

 

 

Um ok. How bout this for some thought. I could care less about the kids learning disability. If he foes in fact have one that you say he foes, then great for him for battling that and still succeeding to the point he is at today. But at the end of the day, I want smart, educated, good descision makers on my team. Not saying he's not one or all three, but I'd rather not take the chance. If you ran your own company and had to chose who to hire out of somebody that scored an 8 or a 90 on a simple test who would you chose? All things being equal of course. You can't say that he's a genuinely nice person, a great personality, a great player on the field as an argument because there are hundreds of other CBs coming out of college that you can say that about and they might have scored higher than a 4 on a simple test.

 

All jokes and opinions aside at the end of the day you can get someone else with his skill, maturity, personality, etc... That doesn't have question marks. Just saying.

 

Everything you said are very good points. And I haven't said otherwise. My argument is with those that were poking fun at and further insulting the kid with a learning disability. And there is no "if he has a learning disability" all you have to do is alittle research and you will see he has one. From just a simple search on google:

 

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/What-you-should-know-about-Claibornes-test-score.html

 

http://gridirongrit.com/morris-claiborne-proves-college-athletes-arent-always-students-scores-four-on-wonderlic/

 

I agree, his intelligence may be an issue. However, hes a top 5 talent and has never struggled on the football field. You don't need to be highly intelligent to play CB. But certainly, it is a concern

 

In the end the wonderlic scores of Darrell Revis, Sean Taylor and Patrick Peterson didn't seem to stop them. They all scored a 10 or lower.

Edited April 4, 2012 by Beastly Dareus

[NoSaint]

Um ok. How bout this for some thought. I could care less about the kids learning disability. If he foes in fact have one that you say he foes, then great for him for battling that and still succeeding to the point he is at today. But at the end of the day, I want smart, educated, good descision makers on my team. Not saying he's not one or all three, but I'd rather not take the chance. If you ran your own company and had to chose who to hire out of somebody that scored an 8 or a 90 on a simple test who would you chose? All things being equal of course. You can't say that he's a genuinely nice person, a great personality, a great player on the field as an argument because there are hundreds of other CBs coming out of college that you can say that about and they might have scored higher than a 4 on a simple test.

 

All jokes and opinions aside at the end of the day you can get someone else with his skill, maturity, personality, etc... That doesn't have question marks. Just saying.

 

As the #1 guy coming out, his talent is rare. It's now a teams job to research if this will be an issue. If he can't read due to some sort of issue, but is great with diagrams and has I high iq, he could spell his name wrong and still be an all pro. The red flags raised and now it's time to start digging.

[Zulu Cthulhu]

I still haven't seen anything or anyone claiming this test positively correlates to football success. Year after year they continue to give it, and every year kids' scores get leaked. Assuming it's the coaches and GMs in the league that continue to insist on administering this test even though at least a few players every year like Claiborne get publicly embarrassed, I'd like to hear more of their rationale behind giving the test.

 

Can't link, but there was something call the Lyons study in '09 that found no link between general intelligence (which the Wonderlic claims to measure) and football success or performance. I'd just like to hear a counterargument publicly from a GM or coach that values this test - because Im starting to doubt the thing has any value at all.

 

Fitz scored a 48, but led all starting QBs in interceptions last year.

 

And all the "jokes" calling this kid a dolt and dumber than your dog? Not that funny.

[NoSaint]

All three of my younger brothers have learning disabilities

 

Also, absurd comments? I have only spoken up against the insults and questioned the moral and ethical nature of some people on this forum. And there were a few people that responded by saying my post was great. The absurd comments came from those poking fun at and further insulting someone with a learning disability.

 

Fair enough. A few came off over the top, especially for the setting though. Obviously I could tell you had an emotional connection and not just strong morals here. There was some knee jerk anger in there. Doesn't mean I think your crazy or even all that wrong in the spirit of your point. Just noting how ready you were to fight on this one- which is understandable.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Honest opinion - I'm guessing either he or someone close has struggled with a learning disability. Between the too close to home reaction and rattling off the protection act like second nature.... He's obviously got some connection to the issue. Though he's had some absurd comments, I'm leaning towards cutting some slack on some of the knee jerk comments. I could be wrong on that guess, but I don't think I am.

 

The subject did seem to hit a nerve. I have a sibling with a mental health disorder and a nephew who is autistic.

 

However as a flawed person, I felt the need to take this person to task because you don't insult others if you want them to act better. You appeal to their better nature.

 

I found his original admonition to be very ironic… the way he chided people to act better.

[mrags]

As the #1 guy coming out, his talent is rare. It's now a teams job to research if this will be an issue. If he can't read due to some sort of issue, but is great with diagrams and has I high iq, he could spell his name wrong and still be an all pro. The red flags raised and now it's time to start digging.

I DO agree with your point about teams digging and finding out the answers. I do agree that he may be ranked as the number 1 guy coming out as well. I also agree that his talent is rare. However people thought the same thing about Leodis when he came out too. Potentially the best CB to come out, yadda, yadda. I'm not comparing. I'm simply stating that just because someone is rated the best to come out doesn't make it a fact or a no brainer number 1. Jamarcus Russell, Vince Young and Adam Pacmam Jones all Say hi. Matt Leinert does too. All I'm saying is just because Mel Kiper says he's the best it don't mean squat. If the guy has issues reading, writing, learning playbooks, reading defenses, offenses, even handling himself in public properly it's not worth it to take a risk on that guy when the number 2 guy isn't much different on the field but might be impressively different off it. That's all I'm saying.

 

And fwiw I wasn't intending to poke any fun at people with LD.

[NoSaint]

I DO agree with your point about teams digging and finding out the answers. I do agree that he may be ranked as the number 1 guy coming out as well. I also agree that his talent is rare. However people thought the same thing about Leodis when he came out too. Potentially the best CB to come out, yadda, yadda. I'm not comparing. I'm simply stating that just because someone is rated the best to come out doesn't make it a fact or a no brainer number 1. Jamarcus Russell, Vince Young and Adam Pacmam Jones all Say hi. Matt Leinert does too. All I'm saying is just because Mel Kiper says he's the best it don't mean squat. If the guy has issues reading, writing, learning playbooks, reading defenses, offenses, even handling himself in public properly it's not worth it to take a risk on that guy when the number 2 guy isn't much different on the field but might be impressively different off it. That's all I'm saying.

 

And fwiw I wasn't intending to poke any fun at people with LD.

 

So far, the only indication is he can't read. Before this score leaked, you wouldn't have questioned his IQ. Leodis had warning flags on intelligence all over the place. People can be very high functioning with a disability, but just plain dumb/lazy are hard to fix - with research we might find differently but.... So far he seems high functioning With isolated problems

[Beastly Dareus]

So far, the only indication is he can't read. Before this score leaked, you wouldn't have questioned his IQ. Leodis had warning flags on intelligence all over the place. People can be very high functioning with a disability, but just plain dumb/lazy are hard to fix - with research we might find differently but.... So far he seems high functioning With isolated problems

 

Your 100% correct bud