Dr. Fong Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Wow, 20 reps is really bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonborn10 Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 With Bell's injured shoulder, how many reps of 225 do you think he could do??? I thought Martin was the guy but now maybe Floyd. So many reasons to trade down. Hopefully someone slides down like Coples that another team needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sllib olaffub Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 I know this is about as far fetched as any predictions this time of year, but what if Buffalo is planning on trying to trade up? I see 3 distinct possibilities: 1. Buffalo has their sights on a player at 10 - someone they believe strongly in being well worth the pick - a probowl type player, and as we all know from experience, it might not be someone we or the pundits believe is a fit at the 10 spot. 2. Buffalo just goes BPA. Whichever falls to them they take. That might be their philosophy since they are not as weak as they were a few months ago. BPA would ensure a value at 10 without losing that pick on a reach. 3. Buffalo has talked a lot in this past week about now being freed up in the draft. What if the Bills are looking at this draft as we are - that there just aren't that many superstar talents in it; the really talented players will be gone by pick 7 or 8. If they are thinking this - that the positions they'd like to really improve at - CB, QB, LT are all positions where there are players in the draft who could fill the need, but will be gone by 10, AND they are ready to start trying to win NOW - then maybe they see themselves as not having as many holes now, and would be willing to trade up 4 or 5 spots to land a player that will be an impact player for them for years, and who will remove another need. Looking at the roster, the Bills have enough depth on the O-line to start the year, with the exception, IMO, of having a sure-thing LT (Hairston could pan out, but we'll see how much faith they have in him) and a backup C. Recievers - if Easley comes back healthy, we're actually able to go into the season with what we have. I think we could use a sure-thing WR, too, and a backup QB. But, and here is my reasoning - barring injury, we add a truly pro level LT by trading up, and our O-line is now very, very good. We could be a run first team, setting up the pass, and our offense could be top 12, if everyone stays pretty healthy. Defensively, again, if everyone stays healthy, a shutdown corner to go with who we already have, and our D-line - and our defense might be good enough to win us a playoff spot. So - if they are really wanting to leave this draft with a position of need settled, then trading up might be worth it, as we don't have as many needs all around. We have a roster full of mid-round guys who have potential, so adding more of those types might not get us over the hump... Then again, the Bills might just see enough talent in this draft to get starters out of the first few rounds without trades - and I hope that is true! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estro Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Nolan nawrocki has martin rated as a 3rd round prospect. Wes bunting another draft guru has him rated somewhere in the late 2nd round. I think a lot of people already knew martin wasn't good enough to be the pick at 10. Cordy glenn is the guy the bills like Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formerly Allan in MD Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Why is an offensive tackles foot speed a major concern? He's not running a dash while blocking. It's instincts, footwork, bulk, and strength that matters. LeVitre was criticized, coming out, as having short arms. How much has that impacted him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max997 Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Can't think of Easley as anything more then a bonus Why is an offensive tackles foot speed a major concern? He's not running a dash while blocking. It's instincts, footwork, bulk, and strength that matters. LeVitre was criticized, coming out, as having short arms. How much has that impacted him? That's why he was moved to guard from tackle which is where he played in college Foot speed is important for a lineman in order to shuffle back in pass protection and getti g out in front on screens, draws and pulling to the other side of the line Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Floyd, kuechly or Kirkpatrick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndirish1978 Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 I know this is about as far fetched as any predictions this time of year, but what if Buffalo is planning on trying to trade up? I see 3 distinct possibilities: 1. Buffalo has their sights on a player at 10 - someone they believe strongly in being well worth the pick - a probowl type player, and as we all know from experience, it might not be someone we or the pundits believe is a fit at the 10 spot. 2. Buffalo just goes BPA. Whichever falls to them they take. That might be their philosophy since they are not as weak as they were a few months ago. BPA would ensure a value at 10 without losing that pick on a reach. 3. Buffalo has talked a lot in this past week about now being freed up in the draft. What if the Bills are looking at this draft as we are - that there just aren't that many superstar talents in it; the really talented players will be gone by pick 7 or 8. If they are thinking this - that the positions they'd like to really improve at - CB, QB, LT are all positions where there are players in the draft who could fill the need, but will be gone by 10, AND they are ready to start trying to win NOW - then maybe they see themselves as not having as many holes now, and would be willing to trade up 4 or 5 spots to land a player that will be an impact player for them for years, and who will remove another need. Looking at the roster, the Bills have enough depth on the O-line to start the year, with the exception, IMO, of having a sure-thing LT (Hairston could pan out, but we'll see how much faith they have in him) and a backup C. Recievers - if Easley comes back healthy, we're actually able to go into the season with what we have. I think we could use a sure-thing WR, too, and a backup QB. But, and here is my reasoning - barring injury, we add a truly pro level LT by trading up, and our O-line is now very, very good. We could be a run first team, setting up the pass, and our offense could be top 12, if everyone stays pretty healthy. Defensively, again, if everyone stays healthy, a shutdown corner to go with who we already have, and our D-line - and our defense might be good enough to win us a playoff spot. So - if they are really wanting to leave this draft with a position of need settled, then trading up might be worth it, as we don't have as many needs all around. We have a roster full of mid-round guys who have potential, so adding more of those types might not get us over the hump... Then again, the Bills might just see enough talent in this draft to get starters out of the first few rounds without trades - and I hope that is true! Buddy has repeatedly stated that his philosophy is not to trade up. That if anything he would prefer to trade down but most likely stay pat with his picks. Why do people hear this, then come up with a series of rationalizations for why he should do what they want him to do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Why is an offensive tackles foot speed a major concern? He's not running a dash while blocking. It's instincts, footwork, bulk, and strength that matters. LeVitre was criticized, coming out, as having short arms. How much has that impacted him? Exactly. i highly doubt that Buddy Nix puts very much stock in these numbers whatsoever. That said, it's quite possible that Jonathan Martin simply does not have the brute core strength a LT needs to handle the power in the Defensive players he will be required to block -- and it is evidenced on the field, and further evidenced by the amount of reps he did in the bench press. It's also quite possible that Buddy Nix after watching him on film and in person and in the weight room, thinks the 22 year old has plenty of strength to play in this league and with proper training and still growing, it will not hinder his NFL career in any way. I like Martin from what I have seen, read and heard, although it is not all glowing. I'm not encouraged by his pro day at all but I put little stock in those numbers for him or anyone, and the same for other positions too. To me, the 40 time is easily the most overrated stat in football. I'm hoping the Bills take any LT #1 because I do not think they are going to reach for one. So if they take one, I will be very confident they LOVE this guy and think he is going to be a stud, and not just taking a LT because they think they need an LT. It still may be Martin. I'm sure they like his size, smarts, career and nastiness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 I can't believe I'm saying this, but CB or WR seems like the pick, given the talent available and our position. Martin there in the second round might be great for us. If it's not CB in round 1, though, it seems like the drop-off is such that looking at other 2nd day slots is worth it, and no need to reach for one in R2. I like the TE and OT options in Round 2, especially if they take a WR in round 1. They may think that the WRs available in Round 2 will be worth waiting for, too. Who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPS Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Trade down Buddy. He'll be there later. I think you guys are nuts if you think the Bills plans changed because of 20 reps and a bad 40. If he battles his ass off till the whistle and is effective ( which he was), my guess is thats more important. This is where real football people have the edge over us blog- readers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Foot speed is important for a lineman in order to shuffle back in pass protection and getti g out in front on screens, draws and pulling to the other side of the line I think he was referring to foot speed as in a 40 yard dash. Buddy has repeatedly stated that his philosophy is not to trade up. That if anything he would prefer to trade down but most likely stay pat with his picks. Why do people hear this, then come up with a series of rationalizations for why he should do what they want him to do? He has repeatedly stated he does not like to trade down either. It's not impossible it's just not likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPS Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Nolan nawrocki has martin rated as a 3rd round prospect. Wes bunting another draft guru has him rated somewhere in the late 2nd round. I think a lot of people already knew martin wasn't good enough to be the pick at 10. Cordy glenn is the guy the bills like I used to love PFW due to Joel Buchsbaum, but it's not the same and I just don't think nawrocki is as good. 3rd round??? He's out on a limb there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QCity Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 The word I often read associated with Martin is "finesse." Not really what I want to hear when I envision a lineman. The National Football Post thinks he "is going to have a hard time keeping the edge clean at the next level." I think the only reason a lot of people on this board are high on him is because Kiper/McShay initially rated him high in January. He's also a Pac-10 player and didn't face many dominant pass rushers. The only game I saw him play was the Stanford-USC game (awesome game) and Andrew Luck seemed like he was running for his freaking life that entire game. I will be very, very worried if the Bills call his name at number 10 overall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAWNDO Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Too bad for Martin: As impressive as DeCastro was, former linemate Jonathan Martin was disappointing. Advertised as a top-notch athlete, the First Team All-Pac 12 left tackle was timed at 5.33 seconds in his first attempt at the 40-yard dash. Worse, this attempt was aided by the wind. Martin came in at 5.43 seconds, according to scouts, on his second attempt against the wind. Perhaps more alarming was that the 6-5, 307-pound Martin lifted the bar only 20 times during the bench press and wasn't as fluid or explosive as DeCastro during position drills. Martin was also just average in the vertical (30") and broad jump (8'8") - at least in comparison to how other highly regarded offensive tackles performed at the Combine. While Martin's disappointing Pro Day will no doubt raise some concerns, three impressive years protecting Luck's blind side speaks for itself and will almost surely keep the big man in the draft's initial frame. I think a lot depends on what the Bills are looking for in a LT. Charlie Casserly mentioned that Martin is not the best run blocker, but does have great pass protection skills on NFL Path to the Draft last night. We will have to see come draft day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 (edited) Cordy Glenn is the guy the bills like I'm OK with that...I'm also OK with reaching just a bit for a LT if Buddy and Chan are OK with the prospect (not that Glenn is worthy of #10 Overall...because he's not)...I would just prefer a LT in the 1st Round...It's time... Edited March 23, 2012 by KOKBILLS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsCelticsAngelsBama Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 (edited) Today was pro day at Stanford and OT Jonathan Martin I feel did not have a good showing... OT Jonathan Martin did 20 reps @ 225 on the bench, ran a 5.33 forty-time, and had a 4.76 short-shuttle time It would have been better if he did nearer 30 reps and ran close to 5.0 ... For Buddy Nix to draft Martin at #10 now would be taking a big chance... too risky a pick This is not to say he would not take him if the Bills move down in the draft... I would be more apt to say if Buddy goes with a OT at #10 he goes with Cordy Glenn... Glenn is very impressive OT Riley Rieff will be a very good Guard.. With his short reach he will not be as affective at OT... Bills may decide to now look at WR Floyd, and a future All Pro Guard in DeCastro...Not a CB in round one. Demetrius Bell had 9 reps at the combine. And 10 times at his pro day. Edited March 23, 2012 by MOVALLEYRANDY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Demetrius Bell had 9 reps at the combine. And 10 times at his pro day. Nate Soldier did 21. Michael Oher 21. Jahri Evans 20. Max Starks 21. 20 is not good but not unprecedented either even for guys who seem strong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Exactly. i highly doubt that Buddy Nix puts very much stock in these numbers whatsoever. That said, it's quite possible that Jonathan Martin simply does not have the brute core strength a LT needs to handle the power in the Defensive players he will be required to block -- and it is evidenced on the field, and further evidenced by the amount of reps he did in the bench press. It's also quite possible that Buddy Nix after watching him on film and in person and in the weight room, thinks the 22 year old has plenty of strength to play in this league and with proper training and still growing, it will not hinder his NFL career in any way. I like Martin from what I have seen, read and heard, although it is not all glowing. I'm not encouraged by his pro day at all but I put little stock in those numbers for him or anyone, and the same for other positions too. To me, the 40 time is easily the most overrated stat in football. I'm hoping the Bills take any LT #1 because I do not think they are going to reach for one. So if they take one, I will be very confident they LOVE this guy and think he is going to be a stud, and not just taking a LT because they think they need an LT. It still may be Martin. I'm sure they like his size, smarts, career and nastiness. I will reply to this one Kelly. Some one above on the first page mentioned that the tackles will most likely slide in this draft. I really am starting to feel that is the case. No one after Kalil is able to separate from the pack; all are a project of one kind or another. Going for Martin is his fast feet and frame to add more muscle. I agree 40 times are totally overrated. They should gear up and run like they do on the field. I hate hearing that OL players wear different gear than a WR - no ****, they should. At least you can get an idea how fast the are able to run with the appropriate gear on - as they would in the game. And no try to rationalize why the 40 time of an OL will no longer be the comparable to that of a WR. Who compares those 40 times anyways? All OL run in the same gear all WRs in the same gear then it is a level playing field based on position. That is better than what they do now. Film speed is an entirely different beast and can get be reviewed on game film. Obviously the process of playing at full speed and thinking and reacting affect players as well. At least 40 speed geared up will show you the max speed for the guy that could ever be expected. Sorry for the rant My issue with taking Martin with our first pick is that he needs serious time in the weight room and won't be able to make an impact this season. Looking at value, I would rather wait to draft one. A project will be a project regardless; grab the best on later in the draft and coach/grow him up. We need someone who can play now at #10, I could make same the case for the player at #41. BUt I admit it would be easier to stomach a LT project in that pick... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karl malones other son Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Yea I think its increasingly coming down to floyd, kuechly, and thats it, unless someone we don't think will fall falls. you think its kuechly over reiff? i think its reiff or floyd. prob reiff…. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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