Do We Stick With The 3-4

[Chi-town Bills]

Obviously Marcell is way more comfortable playing nose then a 3-4 DE as his production increased dramatically after the injury to Kyle. I'm not saying he wouldn't have produced at the DE (he might have just been getting adjusted to NFL speed) but playing at NT he was a HUGE force.

 

With Kyle coming back next year and the growth of Spencer Johnson at DE/OLB isn't our defense well equipped to play a 4-3 instead. I know we can't keep changing schemes every year but with the team we have now the 4-3 would be the formation that our D would see the most production.

 

We would have Johnson, Edwards, Kelsey, Carrington and maybe Moats already on the team for DE and as for DT Dareus, Williams, and Herd for DT. Combine that with the draft picks of Quinton Coples from NC or Whitney Mercilus from U of I, would stack the D Line Up.

 

Plus with 4 guys with their hands on the ground they will eat up more blockers so our smaller sized LB's can make more plays.

 

Thoughts?

[BuffaloBillsMagic1]

Your argument makes too much sense. Edwrads will try and fit a square peg in a round hole instead.

[Mr. WEO]

I say we stick with the scheme that we don't have the players or the appropriate coaching expertise to succeed with---gotta be the 3-4.

[Chi-town Bills]

I had previously wanted Buffalo to switch to the 3-4 and was very happy once they did. However drafting dareus gave us 2 legit DT's that both need to be on the field at the same time.

 

I agree that we need consistency, it lets our guys play the game instead of thinking and it gives off more confidence from our coaches instead of always switching things up.

 

I also think LB's like Kelvin (smaller in size but large in heart and effort) would see their production increase with less OL chasing after them.

[OldTimer1960]

I had previously wanted Buffalo to switch to the 3-4 and was very happy once they did. However drafting dareus gave us 2 legit DT's that both need to be on the field at the same time.

 

I agree that we need consistency, it lets our guys play the game instead of thinking and it gives off more confidence from our coaches instead of always switching things up.

 

I also think LB's like Kelvin (smaller in size but large in heart and effort) would see their production increase with less OL chasing after them.

 

I don't think Sheppard is that small. At NFL.com, he is listed at 6'2" 248. He is likely to be able to add a bit more strength with an NFL-offseason training

program.

[LabattBlue]

I say we stick with the scheme that we don't have the players or the appropriate coaching expertise to succeed with---gotta be the 3-4.

[Turbosrrgood]

Obviously Marcell is way more comfortable playing nose then a 3-4 DE as his production increased dramatically after the injury to Kyle. I'm not saying he wouldn't have produced at the DE (he might have just been getting adjusted to NFL speed) but playing at NT he was a HUGE force.

 

With Kyle coming back next year and the growth of Spencer Johnson at DE/OLB isn't our defense well equipped to play a 4-3 instead. I know we can't keep changing schemes every year but with the team we have now the 4-3 would be the formation that our D would see the most production.

 

We would have Johnson, Edwards, Kelsey, Carrington and maybe Moats already on the team for DE and as for DT Dareus, Williams, and Herd for DT. Combine that with the draft picks of Quinton Coples from NC or Whitney Mercilus from U of I, would stack the D Line Up.

 

Plus with 4 guys with their hands on the ground they will eat up more blockers so our smaller sized LB's can make more plays.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

This has been brought up several times, and I understand the logic...

 

Personally I think the Bills should stick to the 3-4. In a 3-4 Dareus playing "end" isn't that much different than playing DT in a 4-3. For me though, I just like the scheme, they seem to be more successful in general. Having 4 good LB's running around to makes plays is hard to game plan against.

 

Obviously that leads to the next big issue, LB's. IMO we should get some solid LB's to make the scheme work, instead of just switching schemes again. We have Barnett as the only solid starter at this point, it is a GIGANTIC hole on this team.

 

The last factor is a good DC (which we don't have), this is probably the most important factor. If we get a good 4-3 DC, fine change I guess, but we NEED a good defensive mind to get that D working.

[jjmac]

If we switch to the 4-3 then Spencer Johnson would have to move inside, I think.

[CodeMonkey]

Step 1: Get a capable DC.

Step 2: DC evaluates talent and meets with HC and GM.

Step 3: Based on current talent, possible draft and FA additions the trio decides on the best scheme.

 

I really don't give a !@#$ which one it is, as long as they don't suck again next season.

Edited December 30, 2011 by CodeMonkey

[Turbosrrgood]

Step 1: Get a capable DC.

Step 2: DC evaluates talent and meets with HC and GM.

Step 3: Based on current talent, possible draft and FA additions the trio decides on the best scheme.

 

I really don't give a !@#$ which one it is, as long as they don't suck again next season.

 

well said...

 

If we switch to the 4-3 then Spencer Johnson would have to move inside, I think.

 

I like Spencer Johnson, but he should be a rotation guy, not a starter.

Edited December 30, 2011 by Turbosrrgood

[Bob in STL]

Obviously Marcell is way more comfortable playing nose then a 3-4 DE as his production increased dramatically after the injury to Kyle. I'm not saying he wouldn't have produced at the DE (he might have just been getting adjusted to NFL speed) but playing at NT he was a HUGE force.

 

With Kyle coming back next year and the growth of Spencer Johnson at DE/OLB isn't our defense well equipped to play a 4-3 instead. I know we can't keep changing schemes every year but with the team we have now the 4-3 would be the formation that our D would see the most production.

 

We would have Johnson, Edwards, Kelsey, Carrington and maybe Moats already on the team for DE and as for DT Dareus, Williams, and Herd for DT. Combine that with the draft picks of Quinton Coples from NC or Whitney Mercilus from U of I, would stack the D Line Up.

 

Plus with 4 guys with their hands on the ground they will eat up more blockers so our smaller sized LB's can make more plays.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

I never understood the strong desire by Nix and Gailey to play 3-4 with the players we had? Even after two drafts aimed at getting us to a 3-4 we still look more suited for the 4-3 for several reasons.

 

1. Dareus can play anywhere but the thought of he and Kyle Williams playing inside together could form the most dominating DT tandem we have had since Tom Sestak and Jim Dunaway (that was 45 years ago).

 

2. We still do not have any OLB/DEs that can play 3-4 and put consistent pressure on the QB from the edges. Don't want to hear about Merriman coming back or Moats/Batten. Kelsey and Johnson are not 3-4 OLBs, anybody can see that.

 

If we can acquire the right OLBs we should be able to play both 3-4 and 4-3 but I think a 4-3 would be our base defense.

 

Our number 1 need is an outside linebacker that gets to the QB and makes plays all over the field. Draft this player and play the defense that best matches what we have.

Edited December 30, 2011 by Bob in STL

[Turbosrrgood]

I never understood the strong desire by Nix and Gailey to play 3-4 with the players we had? Even after two drafts aimed at getting us to a 3-4 we still look more suited for the 4-3 for several reasons.

 

1. Dareus can play anywhere but the thought of he and Kyle Williams playing inside together could form the most dominating DT tandem we have had since Tom Sestak and Jim Dunaway (that was 45 years ago).

 

2. We still do not have any OLB/DEs that can play 3-4 and put consistent pressure on the QB from the edges. Don't want to hear about Merriman coming back or Moats/Batten. Kelsey and Johnson are not 3-4 OLBs, anybody can see that.

 

If we can acquire the right OLBs we should be able to play both 3-4 and 4-3 but I think a 4-3 would be our base defense.

 

Our number 1 need is an outside linebacker that gets to the QB and makes plays all over the field. Draft this player and play the defense that best matches what we have.

 

Well if we went to the 4-3 we would need 2 OLB's (not a big deal, since we need them regardless of scheme). We would also REALLY need a good 4-3 pass rushing end.

 

One of the biggest differences between the two schemes is that the pressure generally comes from the LB's in a 3-4, and the DE's in a 4-3. I think we have a solid 3-4 line, and 3/4's of a 4-3 line, but we don't have LB's to play either right now.

 

CodeMonkey is right, we need to get a quality DC, and let them decide what they want to do...Getting the Bills to spend the money on an assistant may be dreaming a little though...

[Dr. Trooth]

It all depends. If you go to the 4-3 there will need to get rid of some LBs and DL and replace with the same. you have only one DE on the roster that can function adequatelty in it (Kelsay). The rest are 290 lbs. plus... all DTs in a 4-3. You have Barnett and Morrisson as 4-3 MLBs 4-3 LB. No 4-3 OLBs, unless you consider Scott, who will be a FA. You'll need a DC as well... and if you go 4-3, it will be Wanny. See Wanny's resumeSo, if you go 4-3, 75% of the moves made over the past three off seasons are essentially wasted and you now embark on another 3 year rebuild by stepping back from that.

 

 

 

If you want to stay with the 3-4, you need only bring a high draft pick at OLB, a OLB FA, and a nose tackle. With a true and massive NT, Dareus and Williams can move to DE in a 3-4 and move inside as needed. You still have Carrington, Edwards, & Troup as the 2nd wave of linemen. Obvioulsly a new C is needed as well. One not named Edwards or Wanny.

 

So, go ahead... choose what you want, the 4-3 or the 3-4. How long are you willing to wait for a top 10 defense?

[H2o]

I say we stick with the 3-4 and get some pass rushers in the offseason. I hope we pick up Anthony Spencer in FA first and then draft 2, if not 3, OLB's for our 3-4 defense. Getting Courtney Upshaw or Whitney Mercilus in the 1st and Andre Branch or Nick Perry in the 2nd would be my hope. Snag Cordarro Law with one of our 4th's and the pass rushing would be set. We would go from getting no pressure in our 3-4 like now to opposing teams dreading to face our pass rush, especially if we could get Merriman back healthy and just 80-85% the player he was his 1st 3 years rushing the QB.

Edited December 30, 2011 by H2o

[jjmac]

well said...

 

 

 

I like Spencer Johnson, but he should be a rotation guy, not a starter.

 

I agree. If we go to a 4-3, I think Williams and Dareus would be locks to start.

[dpberr]

I'll take any defense that prohibits linemen from pretending to be linebackers.

[jjmac]

I'll take any defense that prohibits linemen from pretending to be linebackers.

 

Don't they call it "fantasy football?"

[Turbosrrgood]

I'll take any defense that prohibits linemen from pretending to be linebackers.

 

Love the idea, I'm going to put a twist on it.

 

 

I'll take any DC who can build a defense properly, without forcing players into unnatural positions...

[sllib olaffub]

I know most topics on this site are here for conversation sake - not for real answers that more or less end the topic. But, I have to say, this topic has a real answer and it's been posted already - the first move to determine what defense we run is to choose who will be running that defense. As it is, a great D-Coordinator, regardless of scheme, could have us in the top 10 in defense with the right draft and F.A. period this offseason.

 

If we really want a great Defense, then the front office has to pony up and go get a great coordinator. You give an average coordinator a good defense - personnel wise - and we get an average Defense. For all we know, you have Nolan coaching this same group of players all year and we might be somewhere in the 8-12 range for an overall ranked Defense. Start with the Coordinator, then get the guys we need to run it.

 

What has stopped the Bills from having a good defense? The answer is either Gailey/Nix are more concerned with loyalty to a friend, and Edwards has just stunk it up - or, Wilson is too cheap to pay for a good Coordinator. It doesn't matter, though, what scheme we run unless we've got a good coach.

 

Given a good coach, we have a good enough young core of secondary and a good enough core of D-linemen to make either scheme work with the addition of the right linebackers. Personally, I prefer a good 3-4. But, IMO, a great 3-4 relies on a huge NT who can clog up the middle. Dereus, as great as he is, and Williams, too - those two, the best D-players on this team, might be the reason we don't go easily into the 3-4. They might be better suited for 4-3 DT's, and moving them to 3-4 ends, or asking one to play NT, might only hurt the cause. We'll see - I'd say a good D-Coordinator could make a better decision about all of it than I could.

[Picnic Table F'er]

Bills play a lot of both 3-4 and 4-3. I think it's silly to restrict your defense to one formation.