maddenboy Posted December 12, 2011 Author Share Posted December 12, 2011 Okay. But how many teams dont have ANY? Present company excluded, of course. Sure, you dont have to have a bunch of them. But if you dont have any, and if you havent had any for at least 10 years, that's a Red Flag. That's the point of the post. Why? And how do we fix it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webster Guy Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 Freddie would have led the NFL in yards from scrimmage, and possibly in rushing. How does that not qualify as top 5? exactly. He was an MVP candidate before the injury. Pass protects, team player, great attitude, leading the league in rushing and all purpose yards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobChalmers Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 I would say there are three on the Bills right now, unfortunately all three are now on the IR list: Kyle Williams, Fred Jackson, and Eric Wood . . . which of course, also explains one big reason why you go from 4-1 to 5-5. Correct - which is why I get so annoyed with the "injuries don't matter" blowhards here. Sure - teams overcome injuries, but not to their 3 best players. Chiefs went through that, are starting to recover a little bit, but also have a pretty soft schedule. They also have a top WR and a top 2nd year D-lineman. Levitre goes in there too - close if he isn't. This team starting falling apart when we lost both 1st and 2nd string OLT's, and it's collapsed completely w/o Freddy. Losing Merriman and Williams at the start of the year eliminated what little pass-rush (and swagger) they had on defense. Yes, that is an argument for Levitre. But if true/accurate (and it might not be), its because of upside, more than where he actually is as a player right now. Show game film of all LGs to all coaches and ask them to rank the players. The national TV folks were all specifically highlighting Levitre as "having a pro-bowl season" during the early part of ther season. He was there until they messed him up playing OLT and C. Not future - this season. exactly. He was an MVP candidate before the injury. Pass protects, team player, great attitude, leading the league in rushing and all purpose yards. He was The MVPOTR* - not much question really. *Most Valuable Player Other Than Rodgers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VirginiaMike Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 Current: Wilson, Williams, Jackson, Moorman, Wood Past: Brown, Paup, Sam Adams, Washington, Peters, Henry, Clements, Moulds, Evans, there were more... Sorry, but Wilson is NOT a top 5 safety. He's maybe the top half of the league, but certainly not top 5. Moorman is past his prime so I'm not sure he's top 5 anymore. To his defense our coverage teams are not good now, which makes his job harder. Williams had one great year, but I'm not sure that makes him top 5 overall. I do buy Eric Woods as a top 5 center and Jackson as a top 5 RB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanC883 Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 (edited) I would say there are three on the Bills right now, unfortunately all three are now on the IR list: Kyle Williams, Fred Jackson, and Eric Wood . . . which of course, also explains one big reason why you go from 4-1 to 5-5. That, and a total lack of depth and crappy drafting explain the free-fall. The O-line has actually played well, even w/o Wood, but Spiller would prob be better if Wood was in there. I'd say: Jackson, Wood, Williams, and Marcell (if Williams or anyone with starting NFL ability played on the line with him.) Kind of amazing how good Williams was with the crap that was around him for so long. I hope they go 4-3 next year. Williams and Marcell will be amazing together. No one should really be suprised that Merriman got injured given his history, but not a bad gamble by the Bills. Time to draft a mean, nasty, swagger LB. Edited December 12, 2011 by RyanC883 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Straw Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 (edited) On the current roster I would say F. Jackson E. Wood A. Levitre K. Williams G. Wilson B. Moorman Are all arguably top 5, and without a doubt top 10. Does anyone remember when Wood and Levitre were both playing at their actual positions at the beginning of the season, and how much they dominated? Williams and Jackson I think are without a doubt top 5. Wilson and Moorman are very arguable. Dareus has the potential to be top 5 but he is not there yet. I don't think anyone else on the team even figures into the discussion. Edited to add: Barnett may be top 20 or so, but I don't think any of our other linebackers are even top 60+. THAT is a huge part of the problem. They would be holding the starter's water bottles on any other team. CBs, same deal. No way Florence is even in the top 32. A Williams has a little promise for the future. Edited December 12, 2011 by Jack Straw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mountainwampus Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 I think Corey McIntyre is a top 5 Fullback, but that's one of those positions that gets very little recognition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 You don't win by having more guys that are top 5 at their position than other teams. I'd have to go through each roster but I would say 95% of the teams don't have more than 5 guys that are the top 5 at their position. While your general point may well be correct, I'd argue that Super Bowl winning teams do tend to have top-5 players at two key positions: QB and pass rusher. Green Bay is an excellent example of this: they have the best QB in the league, and a top-5 pass rusher in the form of Clay Matthews. Previous Super Bowl winners have also typically had top-5 QBs, and good pass rushes with (often) elite players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamrock Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Lemme ax ya dis: There are 32 teams. There are probably 18 non-kicker positions on a football team. (qb, rb, wr, te, RT, LT, LG, RG, C, RDE, NT, LDE, WLB, SLB, ILB, CB, Safety) When was the last time the bills had an UN-arguable top 5 player at his position in the nfl? Dare I ask for 2 at the same time? Right now we have Freddie (injured). Kyle is not un-arguable, but I'd make the argument anyway. Moorman is past his prime, and a kicker. I know its bad drafts, but is it too much to ask? Nate Clements? Eric Moulds? Help me out here. Parrish as a punt returner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcali Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Not sure how you establish "in-arguable". Stats? Pro bowl? Sports writers poll? But this year I'd say wood was in top 5 centers. Evans probably had a year or 2 where he was borderline top 5. Fletcher could be another at MLB. Spikes too before the injury fletcher??...wow---hardly. evans?? top 8 maybe On the current roster I would say F. Jackson E. Wood A. Levitre K. Williams G. Wilson B. Moorman Are all arguably top 5, and without a doubt top 10. Does anyone remember when Wood and Levitre were both playing at their actual positions at the beginning of the season, and how much they dominated? Williams and Jackson I think are without a doubt top 5. Wilson and Moorman are very arguable. Dareus has the potential to be top 5 but he is not there yet. I don't think anyone else on the team even figures into the discussion. Edited to add: Barnett may be top 20 or so, but I don't think any of our other linebackers are even top 60+. THAT is a huge part of the problem. They would be holding the starter's water bottles on any other team. CBs, same deal. No way Florence is even in the top 32. A Williams has a little promise for the future. id say wood and levitre not yet but getting there. the rest id agree. moorman is having a great season inspite of just a couple hiccupos the last couple of games. he was 2nd best in the league behind the oakland guy for the first 9 weeks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddenboy Posted December 13, 2011 Author Share Posted December 13, 2011 (edited) Its the drafting. And the Coaching. The point of this post was to show that the cupboard is bare. And to try to fix it. I say we draft like 4-5 linebackers, to find 1 or 2 that stick. Next year, draft 3 OTs to find 2. The interior O-line is fine. Year 3, draft some DLs and CBs. Those positions dont take quite as long to learn, so they can wait for year 3. Dont worry about WRs or TEs. Every year you can add a late rounder or free agent, if you'd like. These are not crucial, core positions (with pass rush, you can have ordinary CBs, and in a 3-4 if you have excellent LBs, you just need the DL to hold, more than penetrate). These are luxuries you add when you are 1 or 2 players away. Right now we are 7 or 8 players away. Then, in year 4, you can get a qb. Or whatever other "needs" we have. Lets build a foundation first. And lets get some coaches who can actually teach today's player to be his best. Edited December 13, 2011 by maddenboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Jarius Byrd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddenboy Posted December 13, 2011 Author Share Posted December 13, 2011 Jarius Byrd Its funny that you mention him. Everybody calls him Jair-ee-us. Like you spelled it. "Jarius." But its actually spelled Jairus. Jay-ur-us. And no, he isnt remotely top 5, or top 20. He has good ball skills, plays hard, and I'm glad we have him so we can focus on drafting other positions, but . . . I hope you were joking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Straw Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 I thought about Jairus, but while he does certain things well he is not really a playmaker (anymore) which is what you'd expect out of a top guy. I do really like the fact that he almost never misses a tackle even on a big player. He is the king of the "reach out my arm at the last second and grab the ankle of this gigantic RB that I almost completely whiffed on." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st. pete gogolak Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 This is an interesting exercise to go through. Take another team, say New England. Who makes it for Top 5? Brady, of course. Gronkowski for sure. Welker and Mankins probably. Wilfork and Mayo maybe. What does that tell you? All draft choices, except for Welker who was a minor free agent pick-up. Green Bay. Rogers for sure. Jennings and Finley, maybe. Raji, Matthews and Woodson? Again, all draft choices except Woodson. Jets - Revis, Mangold, maybe Harris. All draft choices. I'm guessing that this is true for just about every team. Almost all of their Top 5 are home grown draft choices. It's not anything that every poster on this board didn't already know but it just hammers it home yet again. THE KEY AND MAYBE THE ONLY KEY IS DRAFTING WELL AND HOLDING ON TO THE TALENT THAT YOU DRAFT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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