Frez Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Should we be a little concerned at all with the carries Fred Jackson is getting at RB? Do we have that other RB to bring in and pick up the slack if Freddie needs a breather or gets dinged up for a week or two? Can CJ Spiller be that guy or is it another player that is already on this roster? I'm a little concerned with our depth at the RB position this year. Nice win yesterday.....bring on the Jets! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maryland-bills-fan Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Honestly, I think they should have given Spiller the rock for a series or two near the end of the game. Maybe using the wildcat with Smith running the ball to run the clock down was sort of the same thing. We should spell Jackson more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 (edited) What happened to white? I liked him a lot in pre season Edited October 31, 2011 by Joe_the_6_pack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvermike Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 What happened to white? I liked him a lot in pre season I figured he must have been inactive but spotted him on the kneeldown. I'm glad Freddie's finally the feature back, but he's getting our entire workload. I'm not sure I ever saw CJ lined up in the backfield yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSBill Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Honestly, I think they should have given Spiller the rock for a series or two near the end of the game. Maybe using the wildcat with Smith running the ball to run the clock down was sort of the same thing. We should spell Jackson more. I was thinking the same thing. But, maybe he's not getting the reps there, and it's a temporary thing until Jones gets back at WR? Heaven forbid, if Freddy goes down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frez Posted October 31, 2011 Author Share Posted October 31, 2011 I agree, I thought Spiller would have had some carries yesterday especially at the end of the game. Freddie can't be expected to carry the load every game, can he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Should we be a little concerned at all with the carries Fred Jackson is getting at RB? Do we have that other RB to bring in and pick up the slack if Freddie needs a breather or gets dinged up for a week or two? Can CJ Spiller be that guy or is it another player that is already on this roster? I'm a little concerned with our depth at the RB position this year. Nice win yesterday.....bring on the Jets! I agree If Gailey has one flaw, then this is it....the RB position. He didn't realize what he had in Jackson when he drafted Spiller or he probably would have never drafted him. Next, he is over utilizing Jackson IMHO, simply because he is the only big time play maker at RB on the team. 26 touches at RB, 3 touches at receiver. Fred Jackson probably loves he is getting all this work, but its a long 16 game season and it could takes its toll at the end. Plus, god forbid anything should happen to the man as there appears to be no quality depth behind him. Since Jackson is a brilliant 3rd down RB as well as a 1st and 2nd down RB... he never leaves the field. Look at the way the Patriots utilize a feature back along with a 3rd down back like Kevin Faulk all those years I've always noted that Jackson is like a Jaguar in that he is very elusive runner and breaks the first and sometimes second tackles. When the Bills had Marshawn he was like a mack truck, trying to plow his way thru the line. The Bills need to start grooming another player to spell Jackson during games. the only RB's this past week were Jackson at 26 carries, Brad Smith 4 carries, Fitzy for 3 carries. Jackson even got more receptions then Spiller at 3 vs 2.... but then Fred made 74 yards out of his 3 touches and Spiller made 9 yards out of his 2 receptions. There is no doubt that Jackson is a god at RB, and probably would also be a god as a full time WR. But the Bills seriously need to get another RB more involved in the game to save wear and tear on their superstar! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Freddy might be the one calling for all the touches to put up stats to help get a bigger contract too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frez Posted October 31, 2011 Author Share Posted October 31, 2011 Freddy might be the one calling for all the touches to put up stats to help get a bigger contract too. Freddie has that power? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDG Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 I figured he must have been inactive but spotted him on the kneeldown. I'm glad Freddie's finally the feature back, but he's getting our entire workload. I'm not sure I ever saw CJ lined up in the backfield yesterday. I'm not sure that Spiller has lined up at RB in the last two games now.... my guess is that since he is getting all his practice reps at WR until Donald Jones comes back that the coaches don't want to insert him at RB without any practice.... Overall, Jackson only had 26 carries (plus three catches). That's not a super-concerning workload. Instead of bringing in White in the reliever role, they pretty clearly used Brad Smith to reduce Jackson's workload, which I think is fine... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Freddie has that power? Just a hunch they may fear hed feel slighted if he's not getting all these touches, keeping his stats low so they wouldnt have to pay him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frez Posted October 31, 2011 Author Share Posted October 31, 2011 I'm not sure that Spiller has lined up at RB in the last two games now.... my guess is that since he is getting all his practice reps at WR until Donald Jones comes back that the coaches don't want to insert him at RB without any practice.... Overall, Jackson only had 26 carries (plus three catches). That's not a super-concerning workload. Instead of bringing in White in the reliever role, they pretty clearly used Brad Smith to reduce Jackson's workload, which I think is fine... His work load is week in and week out. It would be nice to see Fred have a blow during the game once in awhile to keep him fresh. Just a hunch they may fear hed feel slighted if he's not getting all these touches, keeping his stats low so they wouldnt have to pay him Maybe Chan has no confidence in CJ Spiller at the RB position? CJ seems to always go down on first contact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VADC Bills Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Honestly, I think they should have given Spiller the rock for a series or two near the end of the game. Maybe using the wildcat with Smith running the ball to run the clock down was sort of the same thing. We should spell Jackson more. I agree, as I said in another post, if the Bills could find a way to give Kenny Davis snaps when he was backing Thurman, they should be able to give CJ a few touches. In the 4th quarter Jackson looked as though his tank was running low. Why not put a fresh body in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cocktosten Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Spiller should be getting at least 5 carries per game. Not only to keep Freddy fresh but to further develop CJ. Both can only help the team as the season goes on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max997 Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 with Spiller playing WR now they probably just want him concentrating there rather then jumping back and forth between positions but I do agree someone else should have been taking some of those late game carries....why not white just to get him on the field Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homey D. Clown Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Right now CJ is substituting at WR until they get a few players back from injury, I didn't expect to see him line up at the Tailback position yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 (edited) What about white or McIntyre? Why with a 3 score lead and just a few mins remanning aren't we using these guys and having freddie and some others on the sidelines? Edited October 31, 2011 by Joe_the_6_pack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frez Posted October 31, 2011 Author Share Posted October 31, 2011 What about white or McIntyre? Why with a 3 score lead and just a few mins remanning aren't we using these guys and having freddie and some others on the sidelines? McIntyre, what a beast on special teams. I'm so impressed to see how our Buffalo Bills are playing this year. It's fun again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YOOOOOO Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 I've always noted that Jackson is like a Jaguar in that he is very elusive runner and breaks the first and sometimes second tackles. When the Bills had Marshawn he was like a mack truck, trying to plow his way thru the line. The Bills need to start grooming another player to spell Jackson during games. the only RB's this past week were Jackson at 26 carries, Brad Smith 4 carries, Fitzy for 3 carries. Jackson even got more receptions then Spiller at 3 vs 2.... but then Fred made 74 yards out of his 3 touches and Spiller made 9 yards out of his 2 receptions. There is no doubt that Jackson is a god at RB, and probably would also be a god as a full time WR. But the Bills seriously need to get another RB more involved in the game to save wear and tear on their superstar! Give Spiller some credit...if Fitz doesnt underthrow that deep ball early in the game, Spiller would of had a easy 50+yd TD...the play resulted in a 30yd PI... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max997 Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Give Spiller some credit...if Fitz doesnt underthrow that deep ball early in the game, Spiller would of had a easy 50+yd TD...the play resulted in a 30yd PI... i dont know why they dont try this more with Spillers speed he can get by just about anyone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 I'm not sure that Spiller has lined up at RB in the last two games now.... my guess is that since he is getting all his practice reps at WR until Donald Jones comes back that the coaches don't want to insert him at RB without any practice.... Overall, Jackson only had 26 carries (plus three catches). That's not a super-concerning workload. Instead of bringing in White in the reliever role, they pretty clearly used Brad Smith to reduce Jackson's workload, which I think is fine... Over a season, that's 450+ touches. If that happens they shouldn't resign him. Possible that they are ok working him into the ground? Don't trust his body long term so just wear him out and let him walk (as bad as that sounds). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 i dont know why they dont try this more with Spillers speed he can get by just about anyone Spillers WR style resembles lee Evans. Does fit have the arm strength to hit a speedy receiver in stride 40 yards downfield on a penetrating trajectory that leads him towards the end zone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 I figured he must have been inactive but spotted him on the kneeldown. I'm glad Freddie's finally the feature back, but he's getting our entire workload. I'm not sure I ever saw CJ lined up in the backfield yesterday. Spiller is a WR now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cage Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Honestly, I think they should have given Spiller the rock for a series or two near the end of the game. Maybe using the wildcat with Smith running the ball to run the clock down was sort of the same thing. We should spell Jackson more. I was thinking the exact same thing in the 4th quarter, why Spiller wasn't given the carries on those last few drives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bills_red Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Honestly, I think they should have given Spiller the rock for a series or two near the end of the game. Maybe using the wildcat with Smith running the ball to run the clock down was sort of the same thing. We should spell Jackson more. was saying the same thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 (edited) I'm not worried about Freddie's touches. At his current pace, he'll rack up about 300 carries. 400 is dangerous territory where RBs get injured more often than not. 300 is just right. Edited October 31, 2011 by SageAgainstTheMachine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlbillsfan1975 Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Over a season, that's 450+ touches. If that happens they shouldn't resign him. Possible that they are ok working him into the ground? Don't trust his body long term so just wear him out and let him walk (as bad as that sounds). This actually was my thought exactly. They have him under contract for this year and next. Run the you know what out of him and then let him walk. Might not be the most ethical thing in the world. Time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 (edited) This actually was my thought exactly. They have him under contract for this year and next. Run the you know what out of him and then let him walk. Might not be the most ethical thing in the world. Time will tell. Gee, ya think? It may be a business, but I don't want to root for a team that treats its best players like **** in return for wins. Edited October 31, 2011 by SageAgainstTheMachine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 (edited) I'm not worried about Freddie's touches. At his current pace, he'll rack up about 300 carries. 400 is dangerous territory where RBs get injured more often than not. 300 is just right. You forget that hes on pace for another 60 or so receptions, and that is not mentioning if we reach the playoffs. Current regular season pace for touches, not carries, is for about 360 without any playoff talk. 350 is where things get hit or miss for returning to a high level of production in the future, or you often see a down year while the body heals. The 400 mark is pretty much a career ender for most backs, young or old. Im sure you can name an exception or two, but few and far between are guys that have a 400 touch season and then go on for a successful career after... If he gets there, as much as I love the guys play - I dont resign him long term after these two years. Thats obviously some ifs -as they might try and slow him down some. I think with shanny in town, yesterday was a little bit personal, and they decided not to ease back on the skins. Edited October 31, 2011 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 You forget that hes on pace for another 60 or so receptions, and that is not mentioning if we reach the playoffs. Current regular season pace for touches, not carries, is for about 360 without any playoff talk. 350 is where things get hit or miss for returning to a high level of production in the future, or you often see a down year while the body heals. The 400 mark is pretty much a career ender for most backs, young or old. Im sure you can name an exception or two, but few and far between are guys that have a 400 touch season and then go on for a successful career after... If he gets there, as much as I love the guys play - I dont resign him long term after these two years. Thats obviously some ifs -as they might try and slow him down some. I think with shanny in town, yesterday was a little bit personal, and they decided not to ease back on the skins. That's a good point about the receptions. I don't have enough time right now to dig into the stats, but I read once that Eric Dickerson is the only RB to carry the ball 400 times and not get seriously injured or see a gigantic dropoff in play the next season. Two recent examples of overused backs are Larry Johnson who had 416 carries in his last season of competency and Shaun Alexander who had 370. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Straw Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Maybe they're trying to see how he handles a full workload before talking money, given his age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 (edited) That's a good point about the receptions. I don't have enough time right now to dig into the stats, but I read once that Eric Dickerson is the only RB to carry the ball 400 times and not get seriously injured or see a gigantic dropoff in play the next season. Two recent examples of overused backs are Larry Johnson who had 416 carries in his last season of competency and Shaun Alexander who had 370. I posted a pretty comprehensive article from a fantasy site recently. it wasnt out of this world writing but a good data reference. ill see if i can track it down later. 400 was a huge wall. pretty much career ending young, old, lots of career carries, or few. didnt matter. the body just isnt supposed to endure that many hits and still be able to heal. 350 (maybe it was a little higher, i dont remember, but it could have been 360 or 370) was a decent split. you saw a lot come back and play, but a lot didnt too. dont quote a 50-50 number, but it was a surprisingly even split. the other thing the article found was that guys that saw a big jump in touches usually had a hard time with recovery. i guess a shock to their system, while a guy that averages 330 isnt as effected by a small bump to 360. i suppose your body gets some degree of tolerance to the hits when you take them year in and year out without crossing the line. im no doctor, so maybe thats statistically a weird anamoly but it was something that they noticed in the data. like the 350 barrier, it wasnt 100% of guys but it was a surprisingly high split. Edited October 31, 2011 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 (edited) the other thing the article found was that guys that saw a big jump in touches usually had a hard time with recovery. i guess a shock to their system, while a guy that averages 330 isnt as effected by a small bump to 360. i suppose your body gets some degree of tolerance to the hits when you take them year in and year out without crossing the line. im no doctor, so maybe thats statistically a weird anamoly but it was something that they noticed in the data. like the 350 barrier, it wasnt 100% of guys but it was a surprisingly high split. Interesting. One counter-example is Michael Turner, who went directly from light use in SD to heavy use in ATL without any ill effects. But obviously there are exceptions to everything. EDIT: Upon further review, Turner did suffer an injury the season after advancing to 376 carries, but he was still effective in the 11 games he started, averaging 4.9 YPC. Edited October 31, 2011 by SageAgainstTheMachine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 (edited) Interesting. One counter-example is Michael Turner, who went directly from light use in SD to heavy use in ATL without any ill effects. But obviously there are exceptions to everything. EDIT: Upon further review, Turner did suffer an injury the season after advancing to 376 carries, but he was still effective in the 11 games he started, averaging 4.9 YPC. He definitely struggled that following year, even if the stats dont totally reflect it totally. If i recall he also put on some weight though, so there was debate to why he struggled and look slow/beat up/was injured more easily. Was he out of shape, or was his body still healing from the year before? I dunno. I do know I want to say he had 1-2 big games and most of the season looked really pedestrian (say 3.5 a carry, but against the saints and someone else he broke a couple long runs and had 10 yard a carry type days). By cutting his carries in half, one or two extra big runs could really boost his ypc Edited October 31, 2011 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Maybe they're trying to see how he handles a full workload before talking money, given his age. Only problem is at a 350-400 touch workload you dont know til he shows up next year and puts up numbers. at that point if he doesnt have a deal, im not betting on him to be super eager to come back. i think they have their minds made up more or less, but im not sure what the plan is. whether its wait til the offseason, or run him dead.... i think they have a pretty good idea of what hes capable of, what he wants, and whether they plan to give it eventually... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frez Posted November 23, 2011 Author Share Posted November 23, 2011 I guess we will see now what RB depth this team really has. Boom....out goes the lights! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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