Top Earners Double Share Of National Wealth

[GG]

As for K street G, they ARE in the right place: it's better to threaten the puppet masters than the puppets...

 

Please, get over yourself. You realize that police, media & tourists outnumber protesters in Zuchotti.

 

Perhaps you've been missing the stories about Volcker Rule & Basel III coming into effect, despite the financial industry's opposition. A 12% capital buffer is going to disrupt a lot of business models developed in the last two decades.

 

Surely you must think that the protestors demands to wipe out student loans will do wonders to banks' balance sheets and set the stage for the recovery.

 

And as far as the handwringing about business being too intertwined with politics, point to a period in US history when that wasn't the case? Name one Founding Father who didn't come from wealth or wouldn't benefit economically through the Revolution?

 

OWS have a lot more in common with the Russian anarchists or French Revolutionaries than anyone even remotely associated with the American Revolutionaries and their ideals.

[birdog1960]

saw this nyu law prof (be careful with your stereotypes) argue for the dark side last night does economic inequality have a good side. well stated and eloquent but just wrong. bill gates would've done just fine in a more economically equal environment with plenty of small investors ponying up and sharing in the profits if given the chance. was disappointed in solomon not pushing back harder but i suspect he'll interview someone equally impressive from the other side (maybe from somewhere like liberty univ ) in the near future.

[....lybob]

saw this nyu law prof (be careful with your stereotypes) argue for the dark side last night does economic inequality have a good side. well stated and eloquent but just wrong. bill gates would've done just fine in a more economically equal environment with plenty of small investors ponying up and sharing in the profits if given the chance. was disappointed in solomon not pushing back harder but i suspect he'll interview someone equally impressive from the other side (maybe from somewhere like liberty univ ) in the near future.

Quickly - we are always going to have income inequality, we are always going to have the rich, whether private or corporate having influence beyond the ordinary in politics, we are always going to have corruption where there is power- but there will be levels of such that engender outrage in the populous and finally push back- we are reaching a tipping point in this country where many institutions are seen as no longer legitimate and are either going to reform or will chose to rule the only way illegitimate institutions can.

[Alaska Darin]

Which is why I'm surprised you don't support it?

I don't support it because from what I've seen, it isn't honest.

[meazza]

I don't support it because from what I've seen, it isn't honest.

 

An example. The OWS movement in Montreal is requesting that homeless shelters donate their food to the movement

[Magox]

you are a corporation? you've been listening to romney haven't you?

What a shallow response. You better keep warming up, because that is who gonna defeat your horse.

 

Is that their protest, or your interpretation of it?

Everyone has their interpretation of it, for the most part it's a melting pot of left-leaning grievances.

[Magox]

It's sad to me that our country has suddenly become a place where the more successful you are, the more you should be hated, vilified, scorned and held up as a symbol of all this is wrong the the US.

 

When the hell did personal achievement and success become bad?

It is sad. Really.

 

Was speaking about this with my father just yesterday. Retired Marine Corps, pushed me in everything I did to the max, and I've done a few things in my life that have made him proud. Well, now I am coming close to fulfilling a dream of mine, which is to be involved with the inception of a hedgefund. But now, being involved in a hedgefund means that bozos such as Lybob believe we are all crooks, his ill-informed and uberly overgeneralzed view of people such as myself is gaining traction amongst the ignorant. And I tell my father that I have a lot of friends out in California, who ALL share this view (you should see all the OWS posts on my FB) and I feel that I almost have to hide the possibility that I will be involved with a hedgefund.

 

Never in my life has financial success been so demonized. I feel that I have been doing my clients right, they have virually all been better off for knowing and doing business with me. I'd like to think that I have improved their financial quality of life,and helped steer them through these tough years.

 

You know that our possible hedgefund is not going to register as a US company? We will do it through Dubai. Yep Du !@#$ing bai. Wanna take a guess why? You got it, because of the business climate, regulations and corporate tax rates. So now, if this endeavor does take off, Du !@#$ing bai will have more to gain through our company than the US.

 

And get this, the main stake holder of the company is a die hard Obama supporter, I mean, he's freaking shameless when it comes to it, yet he still will want to set up shop over there, yet our main operating office will be here in Miami.

 

Whatever

 

 

You see my sig down below? These people that I am talking about down their, they hypocrisy, these are for the most part the OWS crowd of California. I **** you not, no exaggeration, these are the same people.

 

Free up the private sector(de reg, de tax). Go with something like Perry's flat tax. Economy will almost immediately begin to correct itself. I have no idea how long it will take to totally turn around but in the long run, the only truly impoverished ones will be the lazy slobs that don't want to work. You know, like the ones who are occupying and whining for handouts.

Yeah, you mean his tax plan that says "Go with his flat tax plan, but if you don't want to, you can return to the old tax system, where you can escape paying taxes through all the loopholes' Yeah thats a great plan

 

I guaran!@#$ingtee ya that his plan would cause our national debt soar so much it would make Obama's debt look enviable.

[meazza]

It is sad. Really.

 

Was speaking about this with my father just yesterday. Retired Marine Corps, pushed me in everything I did to the max, and I've done a few things in my life that have made him proud. Well, now I am coming close to fulfilling a dream of mine, which is to be involved with the inception of a hedgefund. But now, being involved in a hedgefund means that bozos such as Lybob believe we are all crooks, his ill-informed and uberly overgeneralzed view of people such as myself is gaining traction amongst the ignorant. And I tell my father that I have a lot of friends out in California, who ALL share this view (you should see all the OWS posts on my FB) and I feel that I almost have to hide the possibility that I will be involved with a hedgefund.

 

Never in my life has financial success been so demonized. I feel that I have been doing my clients right, they have virually all been better off for knowing and doing business with me. I'd like to think that I have improved their financial quality of life,and helped steer them through these tough years.

 

You know that our possible hedgefund is not going to register as a US company? We will do it through Dubai. Yep Du !@#$ing bai. Wanna take a guess why? You got it, because of the business climate, regulations and corporate tax rates. So now, if this endeavor does take off, Du !@#$ing bai will have more to gain through our company than the US.

 

And get this, the main stake holder of the company is a die hard Obama supporter, I mean, he's freaking shameless when it comes to it, yet he still will want to set up shop over there, yet our main operating office will be here in Miami.

 

Good luck with the endeavour. I work as a third party for a fund of funds and as far as I could tell, the hedge fund survival rate is very low. It takes a lot of skill to make real returns after fees. Most people focus only on the winners. I'll bet the OWS people have no clue that 10,000 people are being laid off on Wall Street.

[Magox]

Quickly - we are always going to have income inequality, we are always going to have the rich, whether private or corporate having influence beyond the ordinary in politics, we are always going to have corruption where there is power- but there will be levels of such that engender outrage in the populous and finally push back- we are reaching a tipping point in this country where many institutions are seen as no longer legitimate and are either going to reform or will chose to rule the only way illegitimate institutions can.

From what I've seen the OWS supporters have it all wrong, they seem to believe "tax the rich" is a solution to the income inequalities of the US or for that matter the world. Basically they are endorsing wealth distribution policies, which any capable economic thinking person can tell you that this doesn't come even close to solving the problem.

 

All you have to dois think rationally about this. A system that gives more incentives to those who achieve less and decentivizes those for doing more will never create a stong middle class.

 

The biggest reason why incomes have been becoming more disproportionate is simple. It's called efficiency. Efficiency has been rising, the cost of mid level human capital has been decreasing relative to the top earners because their cost of labor has been watered down through globalization. Globalization is not an evil thing, it's something that we have to adapt to, and honestly we haven't been doing a great job of that. ON top of that technology has been improving, so again, EFFICIENCY has been rising. Profits increase, and those in the upper tier of the company have been reaping the rewards.

 

People need to learn to adjust. If they don't learn to adjust, then they will end up in the cold weather, in a tent, eating ****ty food, complaining why life isn't fair.

Edited October 28, 2011 by Magox

[TPS]

Please, get over yourself. You realize that police, media & tourists outnumber protesters in Zuchotti.

Was that before or after 750 were arrested?

 

Perhaps you've been missing the stories about Volcker Rule & Basel III coming into effect, despite the financial industry's opposition. A 12% capital buffer is going to disrupt a lot of business models developed in the last two decades.

I've been reading the stories about Wall Street lawyers fighting Volcker, yes, just as they always have, but they ARE on the defensive. It's too bad that 12% buffer wasn't in place 10 years ago..

 

Surely you must think that the protestors demands to wipe out student loans will do wonders to banks' balance sheets and set the stage for the recovery.

It won't matter, the FED will buy the loans anyway...so the banks are made 100% whole.

And as far as the handwringing about business being too intertwined with politics, point to a period in US history when that wasn't the case? Name one Founding Father who didn't come from wealth or wouldn't benefit economically through the Revolution?

The old "well they did it too argument." The extent of the relationship and influence is cyclical. The excesses of the 1920s brought Roosevelt and regulation, and stability for 30 years after the war. The breakdown of those safeguards over the next 30 years lead to this crisis and the current populist backlash from both the right and left.

 

OWS have a lot more in common with the Russian anarchists or French Revolutionaries than anyone even remotely associated with the American Revolutionaries and their ideals.

I'd say they are more like the Populists of the 1890s.

Here's a list of "demands" someone posted on the OWS site, I don't see the student loans stuff there...In fact, there's not much I'd disagree with in that list.

OWS

[IDBillzFan]

Here's a list of "demands" someone posted on the OWS site, I don't see the student loans stuff there...In fact, there's not much I'd disagree with in that list.

 

Admin Note: This is not an official list of demands, it's a user-submitted post on our forum. The user who submitted this post only speaks for her/himself and their supporters, NOT the movement as a whole.

Outstanding. You found one member of OWS you agree with because he doesn't want someone to pay for his student loan.

 

Frankly, I'm surprised someone took the time to write that, what with all the protesting they're doing to avoid having to feed the homeless their special spaghetti bolognese.

[DaveinElma]

Here's a list of "demands" someone posted on the OWS site, I don't see the student loans stuff there...In fact, there's not much I'd disagree with in that list.

OWS

 

USE CONGRESSIONAL AUTHORITY AND OVERSIGHT TO ENSURE APPROPRIATE FEDERAL AGENCIES FULLY INVESTIGATE AND PROSECUTE THE WALL STREET CRIMINALS who clearly broke the law and helped cause the 2008 financial crisis in the following notable cases: (insert list of the most clear cut criminal actions). There is a pretty broad consensus that there is a clear group of people who got away with millions / billions illegally and haven't been brought to justice. Boy would this be long overdue and cathartic for millions of Americans. It would also be a shot across the bow for the financial industry. If you watch the solidly researched and awared winning documentary film "Inside Job" that was narrated by Matt Damon (pretty brave Matt!) and do other research, it wouldn't take long to develop the list.

 

 

Wall Street bad. Barney Frank, Chris Dodd good.

[meazza]

Perhaps you've been missing the stories about Volcker Rule & Basel III coming into effect, despite the financial industry's opposition. A 12% capital buffer is going to disrupt a lot of business models developed in the last two decades.

 

 

Or the amount of distressed debt funds that lost their shirts because of this:

 

http://www.businessinsider.com/rip-dm-sovereign-cds-2011-10

 

But what eventually killed the Developed Market Credit Default Swap market in the end, was the agreement with the Institute of International Finance (IIF), representing banks owning Greek bonds, to accept a 50% haircut on their holdings. The possibility that despite such a large haircut on Greece's debt, that CDS contracts would not trigger, led many investors and bank hedging desks to question the value of their CDS contracts.

[GG]

I've been reading the stories about Wall Street lawyers fighting Volcker, yes, just as they always have, but they ARE on the defensive. It's too bad that 12% buffer wasn't in place 10 years ago..

 

Probably one of the few things we will agree on. Implemernt Volcker & 12% capital requirement, and you will fix a lot of wrongs, in an industry that regulators are clueless in policing.

 

It won't matter, the FED will buy the loans anyway...so the banks are made 100% whole.

 

As opposed to wholesale student loan forgiveness, so universities can continue to jack up tuition & fees, as if there's no financial debacle?

 

The old "well they did it too argument." The extent of the relationship and influence is cyclical. The excesses of the 1920s brought Roosevelt and regulation, and stability for 30 years after the war. The breakdown of those safeguards over the next 30 years lead to this crisis and the current populist backlash from both the right and left.

 

It's not just "they did it too argument" The ragument is that it's always been part of the USA's fabric, and much worse before. The main difference was that the government wasn't the Leviathan it's grown to be and keeps expanding. Business has a way of cleaning out the trash with competition, bankruptcy and business cycles. Can't say the same about politics. That's why the protesters are in the wrong place.

 

How much of the post-Roosevelt stability was due to his policies vs US being the only industrialized nation left standing after WWII?

 

I'd say they are more like the Populists of the 1890s.

 

Who got their inspiration from the Euro anarchists & communists.

[TPS]

Probably one of the few things we will agree on. Implemernt Volcker & 12% capital requirement, and you will fix a lot of wrongs, in an industry that regulators are clueless in policing.

Let's not say clueless, let's just say private sector finance can hire the financial engineers who keep a step or three ahead of regulators.

 

As opposed to wholesale student loan forgiveness, so universities can continue to jack up tuition & fees, as if there's no financial debacle?

The publics raise tuition when state support gets cut. That said, you've touched on a sore point...

 

The trend in higher ed for the past 30 years has been to reduce full-time faculty and hire part-timers, then use the money on pet admin projects and salaries for themselves. The "instructional budget" % has steadily declined. Administrators claim they must be paid private sector salaries to be competitive--what crap!

Higher Ed is not immune to market forces, and the crunch is coming....evolve or die!

[Nanker]

This, like flu viruses never gets old:

Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100.

If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:

The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.

The fifth would pay $1.

The sixth would pay $3.

The seventh would pay $7.

The eighth would pay $12.

The ninth would pay $18.

The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.

So, that's what they decided to do.

The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve.

"Since you are all such good customers", he said, "I'm going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20". Drinks for the ten now cost just $80.

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so the first four men were unaffected.

They would still drink for free. But what about the other six men - the paying customers?

How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his "fair share?"

They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33.

But if they subtracted that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer.

So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay.

And so:

The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).

The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33%savings).

The seventh now pay $5 instead of $7 (28%savings).

The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).

The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings).

The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).

Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free.

But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings. "I only got a dollar out of the $20," declared the sixth man.

He pointed to the tenth man, "but he got $10!" "Yeah, that's right," exclaimed the fifth man. "I only saved a dollar, too.

It's unfair that he got ten times more than I!" "That's true!" shouted the seventh man. "Why should he get $10 back when I got only two?

The wealthy get all the breaks!" "Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison. "We didn't get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!"

The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

The next night the tenth man didn't show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had beers without him.

But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn't have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!

And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how our tax system works.

The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction.

Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

[....lybob]

In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.[/size][/font][/color][/indent]

So the rich man went home and said boo hoo, boo hoo, I'm going to drink overseas- He first researches the places he's most familiar with in Canada and Europe and says Holy**** my tab would be even higher over there, he looks at Australia but again the tab would be higher and even worse "how will my business survive their A$15.00 = US$16.00 minimum wage" The rich man checked a lot of places but each had it's own problems, whether it was contracting a disease from the ice in his drink, or a high probability of being abducted on the way to the bar or the place having to much competition for his business or just that he didn't understand the language and the culture. Somewhat frustrated the rich man finally decides on China and at first it seems lovely then he notices the bar puts up an increasing number of rules and regulations that only he and none of the other patrons has to follow, moreover the bartender wanted a tip to get him a beer bottle and another to open it and yet another for a glass. At least, the man thought, it was nice of the Chinese government to give him a special partner for his business, the partner was so studious and hard working, learning every last detail of the rich mans business.

 

 

Well the story has a sad ending as the rich man was in the end politely asked to leave China- it turns out he didn't fill out the paper work quite correctly, fortunately his Chinese business partner will continue to run the business. Back in America a somewhat poorer but wiser man thinks maybe this place wasn't so bad after all.

[Alaska Darin]

So the rich man went home and said boo hoo, boo hoo, I'm going to drink overseas- He first researches the places he's most familiar with in Canada and Europe and says Holy**** my tab would be even higher over there, he looks at Australia but again the tab would be higher and even worse "how will my business survive their A$15.00 = US$16.00 minimum wage" The rich man checked a lot of places but each had it's own problems, whether it was contracting a disease from the ice in his drink, or a high probability of being abducted on the way to the bar or the place having to much competition for his business or just that he didn't understand the language and the culture. Somewhat frustrated the rich man finally decides on China and at first it seems lovely then he notices the bar puts up an increasing number of rules and regulations that only he and none of the other patrons has to follow, moreover the bartender wanted a tip to get him a beer bottle and another to open it and yet another for a glass. At least, the man thought, it was nice of the Chinese government to give him a special partner for his business, the partner was so studious and hard working, learning every last detail of the rich mans business.

 

 

Well the story has a sad ending as the rich man was in the end politely asked to leave China- it turns out he didn't fill out the paper work quite correctly, fortunately his Chinese business partner will continue to run the business. Back in America a somewhat poorer but wiser man thinks maybe this place wasn't so bad after all.

Love the mentality.

 

"Other places totally suck, but we suck less."

 

Therefore, we rule.

 

Now try looking at the real issues and trying to solve them, instead of trying to suck slightly less.

 

The liberal slogan should be "Commitment to mediocrity".

[....lybob]

Love the mentality.

 

"Other places totally suck, but we suck less."

 

Therefore, we rule.

 

Now try looking at the real issues and trying to solve them, instead of trying to suck slightly less.

 

The liberal slogan should be "Commitment to mediocrity".

Actually the question is sucks for who- your mentality is it has to suck a little more for the poor and working class so the rich man can afford another ivory back-scratcher. Globalization (free trade,offshoring) was sold (propagandized) to the working class of the developed world as a job creator of high tech and managerial jobs while factory work was off-shored. What a few other voices warned was globalization would mean a large net loss of jobs and a leveling of wages where wages would rise in the third world and decrease in the developed world. If workers in the developed world had understood the full scope of this they would have started protesting in the 70s. The other augment was corporations needed low-wage labor for competitiveness but these corporations faced no indigenous competition from these low wage countries- only competition from other well-heeled corporations looking to pay lower wages, what we needed then was a globalization of protest that did not permit the the race to the bottom we have now.

[DC Tom]

So the rich man went home and said boo hoo, boo hoo, I'm going to drink overseas- He first researches the places he's most familiar with in Canada and Europe and says Holy**** my tab would be even higher over there, he looks at Australia but again the tab would be higher and even worse "how will my business survive their A$15.00 = US$16.00 minimum wage" The rich man checked a lot of places but each had it's own problems, whether it was contracting a disease from the ice in his drink, or a high probability of being abducted on the way to the bar or the place having to much competition for his business or just that he didn't understand the language and the culture. Somewhat frustrated the rich man finally decides on China and at first it seems lovely then he notices the bar puts up an increasing number of rules and regulations that only he and none of the other patrons has to follow, moreover the bartender wanted a tip to get him a beer bottle and another to open it and yet another for a glass. At least, the man thought, it was nice of the Chinese government to give him a special partner for his business, the partner was so studious and hard working, learning every last detail of the rich mans business.

 

 

Well the story has a sad ending as the rich man was in the end politely asked to leave China- it turns out he didn't fill out the paper work quite correctly, fortunately his Chinese business partner will continue to run the business. Back in America a somewhat poorer but wiser man thinks maybe this place wasn't so bad after all.

 

Wow. You took a trite and rather insipid cliche, and turned it into one of the most retarded things I've ever seen.

 

That is some serious talent.