Forbes Ranks The NFL's Most Valuable Teams

[The Senator]

You are not alone.

 

The Buffalo Bills are moving. Someone with a chunk of money is gonna buy the Bills and move them.

 

That's why I suggest everyone start watching the SU Orange football team.

 

The Bills will be in Buffalo long after the Carrier Dome lies in crumbled ruins.

 

The Orange are never going to leave CNY.

You'll get no sympathy from me.

 

And I know there's already a significant SU Orange football following in Rochester & Buffalo because my company sells a lot of SU merchandise there.

Congrats on your successful t-shirt stand

Edited September 10, 2011 by The Senator

[PearlHowardman]

The Bills can go 0-16 every year, have no one in the stands, and still be the most valuable team in the NFL. Why? Because they will be the only team of 32 to become available at auction when Ralph passes. Three words: supply and demand.

 

All your feeble attempts at knowing Ralph's true intentions are hilarious. You cherry pick facts that support your silly arguments and ignore the rest, or worse you invent new bizarre scenarios.

 

If Ralph did anything he probably mortgaged the team to get some of the equity out before his death. And his "cheapness" may really be an interest payment that's due.

All in all, everyone waiting for Ralph to go thinking the Bills will magically improve when that happens better get used cheering for them in L.A. because there is about a 1% chance they stay in WNY.

 

PTR

 

PTR is absolutely 100% right!

 

There's quite a following for the SU Orange football team in Buffalo-Rochester. I can only suggest that football fans in WNY hop on the Big East/SU Orange football bandwagon right now.

 

The Buffalo Bills are essentially gone!

[San-O]

Isn't that just your feeble attempt at knowing Ralph's true intentions?

 

I don't really care about his intentions. It's his actions that bother me.

 

 

And Ol' Ralph's selling a game to Toronto was anything BUT a money grab.

 

Why not move one of the road games there instead?

 

$$$

[chris heff]

I think they started calling the difference "playoffs" some time ago.

 

I liked the red helmets better.

 

My response is simply see the Redskins.

 

I always hated the red helmets.

[PromoTheRobot]

Anyone bidding to keep the Bills in WNY, like say Jeremy Gundlach or Tom Golisano, will be bidding against L.A. interests like Ed Roski and AEG. Even though the Bills are valued at around $750M, part of that is because they are in Buffalo. Move them to L.A. and they are worth $1B. So AEG and Roski are ready to pay at least that much, if not more. So can Golisano or Gundlach overpay by $300-400 million to keep a team here? That is the question. Then there is always the Toronto wild card. Will a Canadian buyer we don't know of yet emerge?

 

And Ol' Ralph's selling a game to Toronto was anything BUT a money grab.

 

Why not move one of the road games there instead?

 

$$$

Are you really asking this question?

 

PTR

Edited September 10, 2011 by PromoTheRobot

[SwampD]

No one spends a billion dollars hoping to make profit of a couple of million. A damn bank CD will accomplish the same.

 

PTR

There are 23 other owners (some of them who own actual winning teams) who would disagree.

 

 

And who is spending a billion dollars anyway?

[PromoTheRobot]

There are 23 other owners (some of them who own actual winning teams) who would disagree.

 

 

And who is spending a billion dollars anyway?

Anyone buying the Bills. I was referring to why anyone would pay a billion for a franchise that only makes $20M in profit. That's why the story that Ralph is setting up for a sale is nonsense. What the Bills make in profit is irrelevant to whoever buys them.

 

PTR

[snamsnoops]

I will choose to believe they will stay, because if they go there will be nothing I or any of you can do about it. Belly aching and not supporting the team because of speculative fear will certainly not help.

 

Here is my speculative worse case scenario: Ralph Kicks, team moves to LA. Millions of Bills fans make an emotional plea for them to stay to no avail, meanwhile owners in Jacksonville look to buffalo as greener pastures and we get a replacement. There is a place for us, one of the most loyal and passionate fan bases in all of sports, in the NFL.

 

So doom and glooers, carry on.

 

So Buff moves to LA & Jacks moves to Buff???!! Wouldn't it make more sense to just move Jacks to LA, for it to then be out of LA in 2 years cause the NFL DON"T WORKY IN LA! Sorry just thinking out loud.

[hondo in seattle]

The Bills owner has been maximizing the team's value for years now.

 

Ralph makes an occasional spin comment, but really doesn't care about having a winning team.

 

Nix and Gailey are caretaker staff, but the power is with the financial guys.

 

I can't believe so many people here refuse to accept this.

 

 

Ralph is a businessman and is supposed to maximize the value of his investment. This is good news for Bills fans. If the franchise was a financial mess, Ralph (or whoever owns the club after Ralph passes) would have to move it somewhere else where it would make money. No one will operate a NFL team at a loss for very long.

 

Nix and Gailey are not caretakers. Nix has said repeatedly that he has the authority to spend to cap. In fact, he says he's had to discourage Ralph from signing high-priced big-name FAs. The Bills activity in free agency seems entirely consistent with the Nix/Gailey vision for the team. They are signing players that fit the Nix/Gailey mold and ignoring everyone else. Nix/Gailey are in charge of the players and coaching staff, not Ralph.

 

Though I'm sure Ralph gets involved somewhat like all owners do. If you owned a NFL team worth hundreds of millions of dollars, wouldn't you get involved?

 

How do you know what Ralph cares about? Do you have some kind of supernatural insight into his emotional state that you want to share with us? Have you ever even had a conversation with the man? I'm trying to understand why you think you can guess what he cares about with more accuracy than the average fan.

 

My guess is that Ralph cares about winning and I base that on two observations (1) he says so, and (2) people generally prefer winning to losing. The fact that Ralph has not proven himself exceptionally adept at winning is not evidence to the contrary. But let's not forget 4 SB teams and 2 AFL championships.

[SwampD]

Anyone buying the Bills. I was referring to why anyone would pay a billion for a franchise that only makes $20M in profit. That's why the story that Ralph is setting up for a sale is nonsense. What the Bills make in profit is irrelevant to whoever buys them.

 

PTR

Got it. But that's a red herring. We're not talking about the next owner. We're talking about this one. We're talking about current owner claiming poverty and not spending money that would make the team better while still making money and passing off money decisions and football decisions.

 

 

I'm also pretty sure that people often buy teams (or companies) that just break even or even lose money, but hold onto them long enough for the overall value to go up. They make their money after they then sell it.

[3rdnlng]

Anyone bidding to keep the Bills in WNY, like say Jeremy Gundlach or Tom Golisano, will be bidding against L.A. interests like Ed Roski and AEG. Even though the Bills are valued at around $750M, part of that is because they are in Buffalo. Move them to L.A. and they are worth $1B. So AEG and Roski are ready to pay at least that much, if not more. So can Golisano or Gundlach overpay by $300-400 million to keep a team here? That is the question. Then there is always the Toronto wild card. Will a Canadian buyer we don't know of yet emerge?

 

 

Are you really asking this question?

 

PTR

 

When I read that I felt like the AFLAC duck stumbling out of the barbershop and shaking his head after hearing Yogi Berra say "cash is as good as money".

[PromoTheRobot]

Got it. But that's a red herring. We're not talking about the next owner. We're talking about this one. We're talking about current owner claiming poverty and not spending money that would make the team better while still making money and passing off money decisions and football decisions.

 

 

I'm also pretty sure that people often buy teams (or companies) that just break even or even lose money, but hold onto them long enough for the overall value to go up. They make their money after they then sell it.

The Bills value is not tied to their profitability. It's tied to the fact it's one of only 32 NFL franchises which rarely go up for auction. The Bills are like a huge bar of gold. You can crap on it but it's still a bar of gold. My theory (offered by a friend with an MBA) suggests Ralph took a HUGE mortgage out on the Bills and needs that $20-30M yearly to make interest payments. Why would he do that? To get his equity out now and avoid estate taxes. That makes more sense to me than any other theory.

 

PTR

[billsfan1959]

The Bills owner has been maximizing the team's value for years now.

 

Ralph makes an occasional spin comment, but really doesn't care about having a winning team.

 

Nix and Gailey are caretaker staff, but the power is with the financial guys.

 

I can't believe so many people here refuse to accept this.

 

You are certainly welcome to your opinion and free to express it all you want. You can make an intelligent argument to support what you believe; however, equally intelligent arguments can be made to support different beliefs. You can believe the owner is cheap and could care less about winning, and that Nix and Gailey are merely puppets of the financial guys. I have been following the team passionately since 1968. What I have observed during that time leads me to believe that the owner wants a winning team and there are times his decisions are made accordingly. There are also times his decisions are based on the fact that it is a business (and he has every right to treat it as such). On many occasions decisions appear to be based on a complicated mixture of the two. Bad decisions at times? Yes. Hiring the wrong people at times and allowing them to make bad decisions? Yes. But in the end I believe Ralph Wilson would like to give the fans a winning team. In addition, my observations over the last two years lead me to believe that Nix and Gailey are trying to build a winning team and are not merely puppets of a cheap owner and his financial minions. Based on what I have seen, I am willing to give them a chance to succeed.

 

My point is this: Based on my own observations, I believe differently than you do. So, (1) why do I have to believe what you do? and (2) Why is it so important to you that I do?

[San-O]

When I read that I felt like the AFLAC duck stumbling out of the barbershop and shaking his head after hearing Yogi Berra say "cash is as good as money".

 

 

 

My bad. I will refrain from posting until I wake up. Possibly entirely.

 

Just had hail out here in Dana Point. Strange.

[LGB]

"Forbes ranks the Bills ninth, with an annual operating income of $40.9 million (that's after they pay the players). And it's more than the Philadelphia Eagles, Pittsburgh Steelers, and New York Jets each make. It's also more than triple what the Miami Dolphins or Super Bowl Champion Green Bay Packers take away."

 

If the Bills, who haven't been to the playoffs since 1999, can still put fans in the stands and make $40.9 million a year, why should they change anything (especially considering the fact that they receive millions of dollars a year in taxpayer subsidizes)?

[hondo in seattle]

The Bills value is not tied to their profitability. It's tied to the fact it's one of only 32 NFL franchises which rarely go up for auction. The Bills are like a huge bar of gold. You can crap on it but it's still a bar of gold. My theory (offered by a friend with an MBA) suggests Ralph took a HUGE mortgage out on the Bills and needs that $20-30M yearly to make interest payments. Why would he do that? To get his equity out now and avoid estate taxes. That makes more sense to me than any other theory.

 

PTR

 

PTR, I usually agree with you but this is just speculation based on far too little information. The fact that someone with a MBA is making a wild-ass guess doesn't make it any more than a wild-ass guess.

[SwampD]

The Bills value is not tied to their profitability. It's tied to the fact it's one of only 32 NFL franchises which rarely go up for auction. The Bills are like a huge bar of gold. You can crap on it but it's still a bar of gold. My theory (offered by a friend with an MBA) suggests Ralph took a HUGE mortgage out on the Bills and needs that $20-30M yearly to make interest payments. Why would he do that? To get his equity out now and avoid estate taxes. That makes more sense to me than any other theory.

 

PTR

After reading this, you really should think twice about calling the theory of someone else feeble.

 

As was asked upthread, what did he take a mortgage out for, to buy a second team down south that he could rent out, perhaps?

[hondo in seattle]

"Forbes ranks the Bills ninth, with an annual operating income of $40.9 million (that's after they pay the players). And it's more than the Philadelphia Eagles, Pittsburgh Steelers, and New York Jets each make. It's also more than triple what the Miami Dolphins or Super Bowl Champion Green Bay Packers take away."

 

If the Bills, who haven't been to the playoffs since 1999, can still put fans in the stands and make $40.9 million a year, why should they change anything (especially considering the fact that they receive millions of dollars a year in taxpayer subsidizes)?

 

The scary truth is that the Bills would be even more profitable in SoCal.

 

However, it is good news that the Bills are profitable. Business isn't just business. Businessmen are people with emotions and they are often sports fans too. Our hope has to be that a local billionaire buys the Bills when Ralph goes off to Valhalla. Buying the team would be an emotional decision. The fact that the Bills are profitable makes it justifiable from a business perspective.

[PromoTheRobot]

After reading this, you really should think twice about calling the theory of someone else feeble.

 

As was asked upthread, what did he take a mortgage out for, to buy a second team down south that he could rent out, perhaps?

If you own a billion-dollar asset and you want to access your equity without selling that asset, you borrow against it. Not to buy anything per se, but to start distributing your estate to you family, so that when you do go, after loans are repaid, there is nothing left for the taxman. Talk to an MBA.

 

PTR

[ThurmasThoman]

 

 

You don't get why an entertainment franchise would see more potential in LA than buffalo? Regardless ofthe previous flops, many CEOs will say they can do it different. The rams and raiders are hardly model franchises.

 

the other nfl owners won't let the bills move from western new york to LA.

 

IT'S TOO LARGE OF A MARKET AND WITH A FAILING, MISERABLE, AWFUL PRODUCT IS MORE PROFITABLE THAN 2/3RDS OF THE LEAGUE.

 

how this is hard to understand, is beyond me.

 

if promo was on a dallas board, it would be

 

"jerry jones is going to die. dallas is a big market, but LA is bigger. better hope we get a ring soon, because once he's gone, you can kiss the cowboys good bye too."

 

the nfl is not leaving western new york/toronto.

 

not this year, not next year, not when ralph wilson dies, not when his kids die, not when you die, when i die, when anyone dies.

 

the bills monopolize the entirety of one of the largest media markets in the western hemisphere of this planet, and manage to do it with a brand that is absolute trash. if this team manages to win and become trendy, like the pats did this past decade, it's value will be higher than all but a few franchises. the nfl came back to CLEVELAND because it has a niche of f*cking OHIO that it found profitable and lucrative. stop being blind to the facts that the nfl is not going to leave the toronto market, and it's millions of undivided fans, when there's jacksonville, san diego and st. louis, all of which play in divided markets and have been mentioned CONTINUOUSLY as the franchises most likely to move.

 

not only most likely to move - but targeted by the people building a stadium in LA.

 

this relocation talk is so ridiculous and tiring.