GaryPinC Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 On the surface at least, this seems insane! Any time you have a player who weighs 375 pounds, why on earth would you think offensive line as opposed to NT? I realize Jasper didn't produce right away. But guess what? Last year, Troup had an entire offseason to prepare. Plus, he was going from being a defensive lineman in college to a DL in the NFL. And yet he didn't produce either--at least not right away. It took him until later in the season to learn good technique and to stop getting pushed around. Just because a guy who played OG for Bethel College didn't learn how to become a dominating NT right away doesn't mean he has no long-term future at the position! The whole purpose of putting Jasper on the practice squad in the first place should be to give him time to learn to play NT in a comparatively low-pressure setting. (As opposed to being told you only have a few short weeks to transition to the pros, learn a new position, and start producing before Kellen Heard takes your roster spot.) Physically, Jasper has the tools to be a much better NT than an OL. I realize his skill set at NT isn't well-developed, but that's exactly what the practice squad is supposed to be for! I respectfully disagree. From what I saw of Jasper he has a lot of problems using his hands to gain separation and his field awareness wasn't very good. Put him at guard or tackle give him his assignment and let him run people over. That's why they're thinking OT with him, and at this point I agree. BTW, Jasper played OG and NT and Tennessee-Martin and later he was exclusively offense at Bethel. He did a couple interviews after being drafted and sounded like he preferred D-line over offense so that's where the Bills coaches put him. Figure the Bills coaches put him where he wanted to be, Jasper wasn't good enough and now they can give him a new appreciation of the offensive side. I'd be interested to hear why you think he's so much better suited for NT over OL? When I saw his style of play the first thing I thought of was OL, especially with his athletic ability. Keep in mind even his final college coach felt he was better suited to OL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 (edited) I respectfully disagree. From what I saw of Jasper he has a lot of problems using his hands to gain separation and his field awareness wasn't very good. Put him at guard or tackle give him his assignment and let him run people over. That's why they're thinking OT with him, and at this point I agree. BTW, Jasper played OG and NT and Tennessee-Martin and later he was exclusively offense at Bethel. He did a couple interviews after being drafted and sounded like he preferred D-line over offense so that's where the Bills coaches put him. Figure the Bills coaches put him where he wanted to be, Jasper wasn't good enough and now they can give him a new appreciation of the offensive side. I'd be interested to hear why you think he's so much better suited for NT over OL? When I saw his style of play the first thing I thought of was OL, especially with his athletic ability. Keep in mind even his final college coach felt he was better suited to OL. Fair points. I agree that right now, Jasper's style of play is better suited for OL than DL. That said, I feel that it's quite possible the coaches could, over time, alter Jasper's style of play to make it better-suited for DL. The only barrier would be if he had some mental limitation--such as a potential lack of field awareness, as you've hinted at--which would prevent him from fully adapting to the DL position. However, I find it difficult to believe that all that much mental capacity is required to be a successful DL. Vince Lombardi once said that a DL should be as big as a gorilla and as strong as a gorilla. And that if he's as smart as a gorilla, then that's smart enough! I'll grant that the game has changed since Lombardi's day. But still . . . Leon Lett had a very good career as a DT, and he wasn't exactly the embodiment of mental prowess or on-field awareness. You'd think that anything Lett could learn to do, Jasper could learn also. However, Jasper hasn't learned good DL technique yet, which in my opinion is why he currently looks better as an OL than as a DL. Edited September 6, 2011 by Edwards' Arm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 the bills have a lot more on the DL than the OL right now, so trying to develop an OL prospect makes more sense We have a winner. If they do put him on the active roster, who gets the axe to make room for Jasper? They have one more WR on the roster than they did last year. They could cut Martin. WAY too early to wonder about this, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bills!Win! Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 Jasper reminds me of a Jason Peters type of player. He's a jack of all trades kinda guy. He can play more than 1 position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 Fair points. I agree that right now, Jasper's style of play is better suited for OL than DL. That said, I feel that it's quite possible the coaches could, over time, alter Jasper's style of play to make it better-suited for DL. The only barrier would be if he had some mental limitation--such as a potential lack of field awareness, as you've hinted at--which would prevent him from fully adapting to the DL position. However, I find it difficult to believe that all that much mental capacity is required to be a successful DL. Vince Lombardi once said that a DL should be as big as a gorilla and as strong as a gorilla. And that if he's as smart as a gorilla, then that's smart enough! I'll grant that the game has changed since Lombardi's day. But still . . . Leon Lett had a very good career as a DT, and he wasn't exactly the embodiment of mental prowess or on-field awareness. You'd think that anything Lett could learn to do, Jasper could learn also. However, Jasper hasn't learned good DL technique yet, which in my opinion is why he currently looks better as an OL than as a DL. “We think he’s a very good athlete,” said Gailey. ”We like Mike Jasper. We like his work ethic and athletic ability. We just think he’ll be a better offensive player in the long run. We moved him over there and he was agreeable to it and he actually was looking forward to it and I think he was excited about the opportunity.” That doesn't really address your points about what it takes to be a successful D-lineman, but it clearly indicates what the Bills are thinking. I'd also suggest mental issues aren't what limited Jasper, since RT is arguably a more mentally demanding position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K Gun Special Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 Maybe he is just filling because line has only 3 backups. Wouldn't want it to be permanent as the O-line needs to be more mobile and I think he is better suited for NT. The Bills think he projects better on the OL. Guy has trouble having a clue on defense. Being big isnt enough. Hope that was part of your 10 win season prediction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob in STL Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 Calm down guuys. He is a Scout Team offensive lineman. They have three backups and one other OL on the PS. Jasper makes 5. No big deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cocktosten Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 Seriously. The Bills need to start drafting 7th round rookies who can start immediately. And you know who isn't a project? Jimmy Clausen. That kid has HOFer all over him. Can't believe the Bills passed on him. Hey, I see your boy Lefvour got cut again...and by the bengals of all teams! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockinon Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 Fair points. I agree that right now, Jasper's style of play is better suited for OL than DL. That said, I feel that it's quite possible the coaches could, over time, alter Jasper's style of play to make it better-suited for DL. The only barrier would be if he had some mental limitation--such as a potential lack of field awareness, as you've hinted at--which would prevent him from fully adapting to the DL position. However, I find it difficult to believe that all that much mental capacity is required to be a successful DL. Vince Lombardi once said that a DL should be as big as a gorilla and as strong as a gorilla. And that if he's as smart as a gorilla, then that's smart enough! I'll grant that the game has changed since Lombardi's day. But still . . . Leon Lett had a very good career as a DT, and he wasn't exactly the embodiment of mental prowess or on-field awareness. You'd think that anything Lett could learn to do, Jasper could learn also. However, Jasper hasn't learned good DL technique yet, which in my opinion is why he currently looks better as an OL than as a DL. I think you are right that Jasper is built for the DL, but just how is a kid from Bethel going to beat the very talented guys ahead of him. Wiliams and Troupe were locks to begin with. Even Heard came out this summer and played much better than last year. Jasper never had a chance at NT because we are stacked there. Still, he earned the respect of the coaching staff enough to keep him on the practice squad and enough to give him a chance on the OL. This is an area of weakness for the Bills and it seems to me that it could be what is best for the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tennesseeboy Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 I don't know. I can see him on the practice squad, but I'm not all that happy with any of our offensive tackles, starters or backups. We have to play with what we have I guess. Too bad, as it will really hamper our possible offensive strategy. On the good side Gailey is probably the best in the business at making game adjustments to compensate for weaknesses. I would think our strategy might have been better to strengthen that particular area of weakness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Senator Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 Jasper... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cocktosten Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 Jasper... That picture looks photo-shopped!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 That picture looks photo-shopped!!!!!! STUMBLIN' BUMBLIN"!!! PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 (edited) I think you are right that Jasper is built for the DL, but just how is a kid from Bethel going to beat the very talented guys ahead of him. Wiliams and Troupe were locks to begin with. Even Heard came out this summer and played much better than last year. Jasper never had a chance at NT because we are stacked there. Still, he earned the respect of the coaching staff enough to keep him on the practice squad and enough to give him a chance on the OL. This is an area of weakness for the Bills and it seems to me that it could be what is best for the team. Over in another thread, people were commenting on how well Carrington has been playing. They see him as a third round pick very well spent, and would like to have him as a starter at OLB. But at 300 lbs, he really belongs on the DL. He's listed as Dareus's backup at 3-4 LDE. Then at NT, you have Pro Bowler Kyle Williams being backed up by Troup. Troup came on strong in the second half of last season, and looks to be developing into a solid NT. RDE is arguably the weakest position on the DL. But even there, it's Dwan Edwards backed up by Spencer Johnson. Kellen Heard is the Bills' third string DL. The defensive line has become the Bills' deepest and most talent-rich position. The offensive line is arguably the greatest area of need. If Jasper is given time to learn the NT position, he could very well develop into a long-term answer there. A 370 pound NT makes much more sense than a 370 pound RT! A 3-4 defense should have two good NTs so that they can spell each other and keep each other fresh. If Troup and Jasper were to become those two good NTs, Kyle Williams could be moved to his more natural position at DE. Then the Bills' starting DL lineup would be Dareus, Troup or Jasper, and Williams. I'd love to see opposing offenses try to deal with that! The above plan would mean that Dwan Edwards would be moved from starter to backup, and Spencer Johnson would be moved from backup to third string or off the roster. I'm not necessarily in love with the idea of demoting those two players. On the other hand, both guys are going into their eighth years in the league. If you were to give Jasper a year on the practice squad to learn to play NT, then when the time came for him to take Spencer Johnson's place on the roster, Johnson be going into his ninth year in the league. I realize that even then Johnson would probably still have a few good years left in him. You have to weigh the loss of those years against the benefit of being able to move Williams to DE, while still receiving very solid play from the NT position from the Troup/Jasper combo. Edit: fixed. (Thanks, Fan in Chicago for pointing out the error.) Edited September 6, 2011 by Edwards' Arm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in Chicago Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 A 3-4 defense should have two good NTs so that they can spell each other and keep each other fresh. If Troup and Jasper were to become those two good NTs, Kyle Williams could be moved to his more natural position at DE. Then the Bills' starting DL lineup would be Stroud, Troup or Jasper, and Williams. I'd love to see opposing offenses try to deal with that! I agree with much of your post (though I think you meant Dareus up there) At this point though, we should realize that Jasper was picked very low and was expected to be a project. Your projections would be applicable earliest by next season if Jasper develops. I think the coaching staff is looking at him as a piece of soft clay and wondering what they can shape it into. Right now, we better not pin too many hopes on him at any position. The board has some irrational obsession with Jasper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowery4 Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 Some thoughts about this switch Jasper is a big mobile guy who played both positions in college. Why not? I can only imagine he would be better than Wottro. He will have being big on the Oline isn't a bad thing either, who made that comment and what are you thinking? You want your guards pushed out of the way by bigger stronger guys? Jasper is a project so he belongs on the PS doing whatever our coach wants him to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 I agree with much of your post (though I think you meant Dareus up there) At this point though, we should realize that Jasper was picked very low and was expected to be a project. Your projections would be applicable earliest by next season if Jasper develops. I think the coaching staff is looking at him as a piece of soft clay and wondering what they can shape it into. Right now, we better not pin too many hopes on him at any position. The board has some irrational obsession with Jasper. You are right: I meant Dareus, not Stroud. I agree that Jasper is a project. So why not plug him in at a position where his size and physical attributes give him the potential to be special? (In this case, NT.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Senator Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 Can you say "tackle-eligible"? Buffalo Bills' offensive tackle, Mitch Frerotte made a name for himself in 1992 by scoring 3 times in one season (twice on tackle-eligible plays), the NFL single season record for an offensive lineman. Chan Gailey...genius... GO BILLSSS!!!! 19 and 0 baby!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockinon Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 Can you say "tackle-eligible"? Buffalo Bills' offensive tackle, Mitch Frerotte made a name for himself in 1992 by scoring 3 times in one season (twice on tackle-eligible plays), the NFL single season record for an offensive lineman. Chan Gailey...genius... GO BILLSSS!!!! 19 and 0 baby!!!!! At SJF Jasper was seen catching balls just before the real practice began. Can't remememcer who tweeted it(Fitzbeardy maybe), but he said Jasper had good hands for such a big guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryPinC Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 Fair points. I agree that right now, Jasper's style of play is better suited for OL than DL. That said, I feel that it's quite possible the coaches could, over time, alter Jasper's style of play to make it better-suited for DL. The only barrier would be if he had some mental limitation--such as a potential lack of field awareness, as you've hinted at--which would prevent him from fully adapting to the DL position. However, I find it difficult to believe that all that much mental capacity is required to be a successful DL. Vince Lombardi once said that a DL should be as big as a gorilla and as strong as a gorilla. And that if he's as smart as a gorilla, then that's smart enough! I'll grant that the game has changed since Lombardi's day. But still . . . Leon Lett had a very good career as a DT, and he wasn't exactly the embodiment of mental prowess or on-field awareness. You'd think that anything Lett could learn to do, Jasper could learn also. However, Jasper hasn't learned good DL technique yet, which in my opinion is why he currently looks better as an OL than as a DL. I definitely agree that with time he might be molded into a D-lineman. But I personally don't think there's physically much difference between an O-lineman other than the O-lineman has to be able to run well in open space whereas the D-lineman needs to be able to use his hands/arms effectively to gain space. While Jasper is a bit large for an O-lineman if he is athletic enough it should be ok. Mentally it's quite a bit different with a D-lineman looking to hold space and get off blocks while an O-lineman is trying to get to his assignment and neutralize them. In seeing Jasper he seems like he has more of an O-line mentality. Certainly he may get better with coaching but he might be closer to being an O-lineman so I understand and agree with the switch. The big equalizer here is that mentally he may not be able to play at the NFL level no matter which side of the ball he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts