mike oxhurtz Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2011/8/10/2355087/why-fix-the-run-first#storyjump Here's a good article on why Nix has decided to build the defensive line up first, instead of the O-line. IMO, I've always felt the right way to build a team was to start with the lines and build out from there. I was wondering why the Bills did not build the O-line along with the D-line, but the article explains why Nix went with the D-line first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2011/8/10/2355087/why-fix-the-run-first#storyjump Here's a good article on why Nix has decided to build the defensive line up first, instead of the O-line. IMO, I've always felt the right way to build a team was to start with the lines and build out from there. I was wondering why the Bills did not build the O-line along with the D-line, but the article explains why Nix went with the D-line first. Good points. When your defense gives up 200+ yards rushing in 8 games (1/2 the season) it is a very obvious place to start. I do think building an OL is far more harder as it requires too much coordination. DL is reactive and hence gives opportunities for individuals to make plays. Whereas the OL requires mental coordination to not show up the play before the ball is snapped and having to be in the right position at the right time for the play to materialize. This is one of the reasons why Defense is far ahead of Offense during training camps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 Wood? Levitre? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 Astute, well-reasoned article. PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 Wood? Levitre? Those were Jauron picks, This article is discussing the last two off-seasons of activity. Still the O-line isn't completely devoid of talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 Sure but nfl teams are not biult in a vacuum you base your plan off of what is already on your roster...... When Nix took over this team he had - A late round very athletic athlete Bell who hadn't played a lot of football with a very high ceiling. - A team filled with very good to average interior offensive linemen.....but no proven starter at rg - He attempted and missed on a RT free agent in Cornell Green....but found a former starter with the Broncos in Pears......he attempted to get the best RT on the market in Claybo but failed BUT one of the wgr guys made a really good point today.....Chan looks like he is going to run a spread offense and that will really help this offensive line because they wont have to hold their blocks as long......the splits will be wider which in turn will create running lanes for the running backs.....both of which excel in open space...it will not be a power running game but it can still be very effective. Chan is going to make do with what he has. SO what NIX has done is turn his attention to the other side of the ball and in particular the defensive line because any good coach knows in order to win you have to win at the line of scrimmage......Darius, Troupe, Carrington, Williams, Edwards.....big massive space eating d linemen who wont get pushed around.....then behind them large linebackers who can run and hit......even the pick of Aaron Williams plays to what we are trying to do.....big physical "dictate to the offense" type of players......beat up their offense.....get off the field....create more possessions for our offense.....and mix in several guys that can make things happen on special teams If they can put it all together......this could be a fun year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 Sure but nfl teams are not biult in a vacuum you base your plan off of what is already on your roster...... When Nix took over this team he had - A late round very athletic athlete Bell who hadn't played a lot of football with a very high ceiling. - A team filled with very good to average interior offensive linemen.....but no proven starter at rg - He attempted and missed on a RT free agent in Cornell Green....but found a former starter with the Broncos in Pears......he attempted to get the best RT on the market in Claybo but failed BUT one of the wgr guys made a really good point today.....Chan looks like he is going to run a spread offense and that will really help this offensive line because they wont have to hold their blocks as long......the splits will be wider which in turn will create running lanes for the running backs.....both of which excel in open space...it will not be a power running game but it can still be very effective. Chan is going to make do with what he has. SO what NIX has done is turn his attention to the other side of the ball and in particular the defensive line because any good coach knows in order to win you have to win at the line of scrimmage......Darius, Troupe, Carrington, Williams, Edwards.....big massive space eating d linemen who wont get pushed around.....then behind them large linebackers who can run and hit......even the pick of Aaron Williams plays to what we are trying to do.....big physical "dictate to the offense" type of players......beat up their offense.....get off the field....create more possessions for our offense.....and mix in several guys that can make things happen on special teams If they can put it all together......this could be a fun year Good points. Just to add to the article and to your post, a few other things probably went into Nix's thinking. 1) Player availability. In this year's draft, the best player available for the Bills was very probably Dareus. Had the Bills gone offense with that pick, they would have gotten a player with a lower draft grade. Possibly there were also times in last year's draft when this proved to be the case. 2) The transition to the 3-4. Back when Nix took over, most of the Bills' front-7 players were better suited to a 4-3 than a 3-4. And not just any old 4-3: we're talking the Tampa-2, which (as implemented by Jauron) placed a premium on smaller football players. 3) When Nix took over, the Bills' front-7 had only two long-term answers on it: Kyle Williams and Poz. Everyone else was either too old, not very good, or both. Since the defensive front-7 required a major infusion of talent anyway, why not take the opportunity to acquire the right players for a 3-4? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2011/8/10/2355087/why-fix-the-run-first#storyjump Here's a good article on why Nix has decided to build the defensive line up first, instead of the O-line. IMO, I've always felt the right way to build a team was to start with the lines and build out from there. I was wondering why the Bills did not build the O-line along with the D-line, but the article explains why Nix went with the D-line first. Should have gone O-line in 2010 with Bulaga and Veldheer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 2011 draft: 1. Riley Reiff 6'6" 300 LT 2. Levy Adcock 6'5" 322 RT (even fits the weiner profile that everyone loves ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
playman Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 try build an offense that scores 40 points regulary. thats what you need if you have a sieve for a defense. but if you D can hold the opponent to lets say 20 points, even a mediocre offense can score just enough to win. so, wich way may be easier? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynical Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 Sure but nfl teams are not biult in a vacuum you base your plan off of what is already on your roster...... When Nix took over this team he had - A late round very athletic athlete Bell who hadn't played a lot of football with a very high ceiling. - A team filled with very good to average interior offensive linemen.....but no proven starter at rg - He attempted and missed on a RT free agent in Cornell Green....but found a former starter with the Broncos in Pears......he attempted to get the best RT on the market in Claybo but failed BUT one of the wgr guys made a really good point today.....Chan looks like he is going to run a spread offense and that will really help this offensive line because they wont have to hold their blocks as long... Excuse me, but how does a spread offense reduce the amount of time an OL has to hold their block? The spread is just a formation, nothing more. The Houston Oilers were the last team team to run a spread offense full time, and I do not remember at any point anybody saying one of the "bennie's" of the spread was the reduced amount of time an OL has to block. Now, if Chan is going to implement a 1-2 read/progression type of offense, then yes, the amount of time the line has to hold their blocks will come down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 (edited) Excuse me, but how does a spread offense reduce the amount of time an OL has to hold their block? The spread is just a formation, nothing more. The Houston Oilers were the last team team to run a spread offense full time, and I do not remember at any point anybody saying one of the "bennie's" of the spread was the reduced amount of time an OL has to block. Now, if Chan is going to implement a 1-2 read/progression type of offense, then yes, the amount of time the line has to hold their blocks will come down. - You flood areas with receivers in the short to intermediate areas and get rid of the ball quickly......its a 3 step drop and fire (EDIT....actually its done quite a bit out of a shotgun formation so no 3 step drop is required) - This will cause a defense to send less blitzers because they will drop back into coverage to compensate....also if you hit the right guy in the area of the blitzer its open for a big play....hence also slowing down the pass rush - It creates more "space" for guys like CJ Spiller and Fred Jackson.....who rely on it Now....if receivers drop balls or Fitz doesn't get the ball there....it hurts the offense as well.....but more often then not Fitz is accurate and has a quick release in those areas. BUT......you wont see a lot of deep passes (I wonder if this ties into the Lee Evans thing at all) Edited August 11, 2011 by John from Hemet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealityCheck Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 2011 draft: 1. Riley Reiff 6'6" 300 LT 2. Levy Adcock 6'5" 322 RT (even fits the weiner profile that everyone loves ) Ben Dover, Adcock, Justin Case, they are all playmakers in my book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shibuya Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 D 1st is a smart choice IMO because a D can keep you in games and give you a chance to win, and even though our O struggled they moved the ball much better last year with Fitz as QB then they have for years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tennesseeboy Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 Sure but nfl teams are not biult in a vacuum you base your plan off of what is already on your roster...... When Nix took over this team he had - A late round very athletic athlete Bell who hadn't played a lot of football with a very high ceiling. - A team filled with very good to average interior offensive linemen.....but no proven starter at rg - He attempted and missed on a RT free agent in Cornell Green....but found a former starter with the Broncos in Pears......he attempted to get the best RT on the market in Claybo but failed BUT one of the wgr guys made a really good point today.....Chan looks like he is going to run a spread offense and that will really help this offensive line because they wont have to hold their blocks as long......the splits will be wider which in turn will create running lanes for the running backs.....both of which excel in open space...it will not be a power running game but it can still be very effective. Chan is going to make do with what he has. SO what NIX has done is turn his attention to the other side of the ball and in particular the defensive line because any good coach knows in order to win you have to win at the line of scrimmage......Darius, Troupe, Carrington, Williams, Edwards.....big massive space eating d linemen who wont get pushed around.....then behind them large linebackers who can run and hit......even the pick of Aaron Williams plays to what we are trying to do.....big physical "dictate to the offense" type of players......beat up their offense.....get off the field....create more possessions for our offense.....and mix in several guys that can make things happen on special teams If they can put it all together......this could be a fun year Thne offensive line sucks. "very good average interior linemen" is not much to build a team on. We don't have "very good average tackles" or even a "very good average tight end." and havent' had good players on the offensive line. Our only claim to mediocrity is two Jauron picks, Wood and Levitre and they aren't headed for Canton so far. The defensive line was even worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynical Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 - You flood areas with receivers in the short to intermediate areas and get rid of the ball quickly.. # Not exclusive to the spread. Can be implemented into other formations. This has more to do with scheming and play calling. ....its a 3 step drop and fire (EDIT....actually its done quite a bit out of a shotgun formation so no 3 step drop is required) See # above. The shotgun is a formation that is supposed to create distance between the QB and the defense. - This will cause a defense to send less blitzers because they will drop back into coverage to compensate....also if you hit the right guy in the area of the blitzer its open for a big play....hence also slowing down the pass rush IIRC, one of the inherent flaws of the Run 'N Shoot was O line. If one/two of the guys are suspect, and can be exploited, the offense was in for a very long day. A defense doesn't need to sack a QB to cause problems, they just need to get into the back field to make the QB hurry his decision and his pass. - It creates more "space" for guys like CJ Spiller and Fred Jackson.....who rely on it Agreed. I guess CJ Spiller is NOT the next Chris Johnson (like some many people on here wanted to believe). Now....if receivers drop balls or Fitz doesn't get the ball there....it hurts the offense as well.....but more often then not Fitz is accurate and has a quick release in those areas. BUT......you wont see a lot of deep passes (I wonder if this ties into the Lee Evans thing at all) First, a WR dropping balls has nothing to do with how long a OL holds his block (unless you want to claim the line will give up because the schmuck keeps dropping it) Secondly, what is apparent is the offense will only be as good as the QB playing, regardless of the formation they line up in. A quick decision maker and one that is willing to take risks will do more to keep a defense in check than the formation the play came out of. Just to be clear, I'm not harping on this subject because I think it will fail, but because I hate it when people start throwing out the term "spread" or "option" as some sort of cure all for what ails the team. The spread has been around for decades. The option has been around for at least a century. What was true then is true now: got to have the right people to run it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yungmack Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 Those were Jauron picks, This article is discussing the last two off-seasons of activity. Still the O-line isn't completely devoid of talent. Jauron would never have drafted either one if he was truly in charge. Those were Russ Brandon picks, with Buddy advising. Credit where credit's due. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 Thne offensive line sucks. "very good average interior linemen" is not much to build a team on. We don't have "very good average tackles" or even a "very good average tight end." and havent' had good players on the offensive line. Our only claim to mediocrity is two Jauron picks, Wood and Levitre and they aren't headed for Canton so far. The defensive line was even worse. In my opinion the interior of this line is decent......and for all the beating Bell takes he isnt bad either. Urbick and Pears are unknowns..... Wood and Levitre are good players....but other parts of the line have made them look bad. And I didnt say anything about our OT's being good or above average. # Not exclusive to the spread. Can be implemented into other formations. This has more to do with scheming and play calling. See # above. The shotgun is a formation that is supposed to create distance between the QB and the defense. IIRC, one of the inherent flaws of the Run 'N Shoot was O line. If one/two of the guys are suspect, and can be exploited, the offense was in for a very long day. A defense doesn't need to sack a QB to cause problems, they just need to get into the back field to make the QB hurry his decision and his pass. Agreed. I guess CJ Spiller is NOT the next Chris Johnson (like some many people on here wanted to believe). First, a WR dropping balls has nothing to do with how long a OL holds his block (unless you want to claim the line will give up because the schmuck keeps dropping it) Secondly, what is apparent is the offense will only be as good as the QB playing, regardless of the formation they line up in. A quick decision maker and one that is willing to take risks will do more to keep a defense in check than the formation the play came out of. Just to be clear, I'm not harping on this subject because I think it will fail, but because I hate it when people start throwing out the term "spread" or "option" as some sort of cure all for what ails the team. The spread has been around for decades. The option has been around for at least a century. What was true then is true now: got to have the right people to run it. - I never said that flooding a zone was just from a spread formation....only that it can be used while doing it - The shotgun formation of course is to create distance between the defense and the QB....which obviously means that he will not get instant pressure from a pass rush....it also allows him to "see" the field better and give him that extra 1 potato count to find the right reciever to throw to (i.e. the one that is the area vacated by the blitzer) - This is the same exact offensive line that Fitz had last year....and he still managed to get the ball out - I never used the word Option - I do not consider the spread to be a "cure all" for the offense....but the theory about spreading a defense out using multiple receiver formations is sound and it does create space for running backs. I personally think that we DO have the right people to run this offense between Johnston, Nelson, Parrish, Chandler, Spiller, Jackson......the odd man out it seems would be Evans because his straight line speed game doesn't really get utilized enough. - I dont think our base offense will be the run n shoot (i.e. the chuck and duck) what I do think is that you can dictate to a defense what you want to do if you are versatile enough. Its a game by game decision on how your going to try to exploit them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stony Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 Thne offensive line sucks. "very good average interior linemen" is not much to build a team on. We don't have "very good average tackles" or even a "very good average tight end." and havent' had good players on the offensive line. Our only claim to mediocrity is two Jauron picks, Wood and Levitre and they aren't headed for Canton so far. The defensive line was even worse. Not sure anyone claimed them to be going to Canton. He might not be Mangold, but Wood is a Pro Bowler within the next two years IMO. Levitre is solid, and really, the line's ability to succeed rests upon Bell's ability to grow upon last years steady improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDaDdy Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 Wood? Levitre? 2 out 0f 5 does not an offensive line make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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