Turbosrrgood Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 (edited) I can sum this up even better...George Edwards. This reminds me of the Mularkey hire...A guy that ruined the Steelers offense, only to see it rebound as soon as he left, he then went on to ruin the Dolphins offense...With the Bills offense in between. Why hire a guy that never ran a good defense in the 1st place? Edwards was the LB coach for Miami, during which time they struggled as a 3-4 defense, especially the LB's! So what do we do? HIRE HIM! I'm sure he came cheap, just like all of the other Bills coaches. But focus your blame there. It doesn't help that they took a bunch of 4-3 players, and made them play in a 3-4 (Kelsey, POZ, Stroud, Kyle Williams, basically the most important positions on the front 7)... Edited May 19, 2011 by Turbosrrgood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 I can sum this up even better...George Edwards. This reminds me of the Mularkey hire...A guy that ruined the Steelers offense, only to see it rebound as soon as he left, he then went on to ruin the Dolphins offense...With the Bills offense in between. Why hire a guy that never ran a good defense in the 1st place? Edwards was the LB coach for Miami, during which time they struggled as a 3-4 defense, especially the LB's! So what do we do? HIRE HIM! I'm sure he came cheap, just like all of the other Bills coaches. But focus your blame there. It doesn't help that they took a bunch of 4-3 players, and made them play in a 3-4 (Kelsey, POZ, Stroud, Kyle Williams, basically the most important positions on the front 7)... Can you name any respected, qualified, defensive coordinators that would have seriously taken this job? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbosrrgood Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 (edited) Can you name any respected, qualified, defensive coordinators that would have seriously taken this job? Yeah I guess that's the problem isn't it. But I think better d-coordinators would be willing to take the job if we were willing to pay good coordinator money...Which Ralph obviously is not willing to do. We probably would have been better off with a college prospect coach, then a proven weak NFL one. Edited May 19, 2011 by Turbosrrgood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 Yeah I guess that's the problem isn't it. But I think better d-coordinators would be willing to take the job if we were willing to pay good coordinator money...Which Ralph obviously is not willing to do. We probably would have been better off with a college prospect coach, then a proven weak NFL one. What proof do you have that Ralph isn't willing to pay for a good coordinator? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Lightning Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 We had a terrible 4-3 run D, we tried to shoehorn into a 3-4 D. To help this transition we drafted 2 rookies in round 2 and 3 who didn't quite make an impact. We signed a couple of veteran free agents in Andra Davis and Dwan Edwards both of who got hurt. Moats was the only player added that actually helped the D. Throw in the fact that this team was changing systems which has growing pains in its first year for most teams and yeah it wasn't looking good. Kyle Williams was a stud. Poz was OK when he was on the field. While Moats was the only player who played well. Other than that the team had talent that either wasn't right in the system or got hurt or was old. Stroud terrible, Kelsay sub par 4-3 player terrible 3-4 player, Carrington and Troup failed to make an impact (Although they did a little towards the end), Spencer Johnson not in the right scheme, McCargo and Maybin sucked in a 4-3 and they sucked in a 3-4, Andra Davis was old and hurt, Akin Ayodele was mediocre, and Dwan Edwards and Poz were hurt. When you dissect it piece by piece the D was a Tampa 2 soft D with a Very good DT trying to transition to a 3-4 poorly. Now hopefully Dareus makes an impact and controls the edge. Sheppard can play competent at MLB, Troup and Carrington add depth to the D-line, Merriman stays somewhat healthy and provides an impact, Moats progresses, and Nix finds some quality depth pieces in free agency. I don't think we will be a good run D but it will be improved ranking somewhere between 22-18. I think we just don't have the LB's quite yet. I agree on all points. Add to it a lack of quality instruction for Carrington and Troup and a soft, small and slow LB group and you got what we got. No way we don't improve this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockinon Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 (edited) Can you name any respected, qualified, defensive coordinators that would have seriously taken this job? Dave Wannstedt We have an offensive coordinator, but Gailey is obviously in charge of the offense. Edwards is the defensive coordinator but as assistant head coach, Wannstedt will be in charge of the defense. This really was a brilliant signing. Edited May 19, 2011 by Rockinon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbosrrgood Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 What proof do you have that Ralph isn't willing to pay for a good coordinator? Yeah, he never has... Dave Wannstedt We have an offensive coordinator, but Gailey is obviously in charge of the offense. Edwards is the defensive coordinator but as assistant head coach, Wannstedt will be in charge of the defense. This really was a brilliant signing. Agree completely. Wannstedt isn't the greatest coach by anymeans, but he is a huge step up from Edwards. I think we will see a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 Yeah, he never has... Again, when was the last time a coach of that caliber has ever been interested in coaching this team? If you may recall, we tried to interview some high profile coaches before eventually hiring Chan but they all declined to even interview with us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbosrrgood Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 (edited) Again, when was the last time a coach of that caliber has ever been interested in coaching this team? If you may recall, we tried to interview some high profile coaches before eventually hiring Chan but they all declined to even interview with us. Yeah, I'm not arguing that the Bills don't draw a lot of interest. I guess I am not following the point you are trying to make. My original point was that George Edwards sucks, not sure what this has to do with that. No one forced the Bills to sign Edwards, there are dozens of other candidates out there. Trying to say that it is impossible to hire a good coach because we are the Bills is a little ridiculous. If you spend the money, you can get a coach. Especially young aspiring ones looking for an opportunity. Edited May 19, 2011 by Turbosrrgood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ennjay Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 I hope Wanny makes a difference. I think the guy knows his -- stuff -- as a defensive coach and he's a good hire in his spot with the Bills (vs. HC). But I keep thinking of when Donahoe or Mullarkey or whoever it was hired Sam Wyche to personally coach Losman and we kept reading stories about how much intense time they spent working on his footwork and his reads, and no matter what Losman still wasn't an NFL starting QB. You can't make chicken salad out of chicken -- stuff. So I also have to believe in Troup and Carrington and Merriman and Batten along with the draft choices if I think they'll be better this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 Yeah, I'm not arguing that the Bills don't draw a lot of interest. I guess I am not following the point you are trying to make. My original point was that George Edwards sucks, not sure what this has to do with that. Your point was about Edwards being inexperienced and not having being successful before he was hired here. Which brought me to my point about how nobody else with a proven track record wanted to coach here. Thus leaving us very little options. No one forced the Bills to sign Edwards, there are dozens of other candidates out there. Name them. Now name the ones that were realistic options. Trying to say that it is impossible to hire a good coach because we are the Bills is a little ridiculous. How is it ridiculous? Our front office and coaching staff have been a revolving door for quite a few years now. That doesn't make it very appealing when you also have a team with little talent to work with. If you spend the money, you can get a coach. Especially young aspiring ones looking for an opportunity. Again, just because you are willing to pay doesn't mean they are willing to come coach. This franchise has a bad reputation and not many coaches may be willing to risk damage to their reputation because they weren't able to turn things around here. And who are these young and aspiring coaches looking for an opportunity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockinon Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 Your point was about Edwards being inexperienced and not having being successful before he was hired here. Which brought me to my point about how nobody else with a proven track record wanted to coach here. Thus leaving us very little options. Name them. Now name the ones that were realistic options. How is it ridiculous? Our front office and coaching staff have been a revolving door for quite a few years now. That doesn't make it very appealing when you also have a team with little talent to work with. Again, just because you are willing to pay doesn't mean they are willing to come coach. This franchise has a bad reputation and not many coaches may be willing to risk damage to their reputation because they weren't able to turn things around here. And who are these young and aspiring coaches looking for an opportunity? Again, Wannstedt though not all that great as a head coach, he is considered one of the best defensive coordinators in the business. Even though he is Assistant Head Coach/LBs Coach, he has still been hired by this team to help our defense. Why do you have to be such a negative Nancy? Because he wasn't specifically given the title "defensive coordinator"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeMonkey Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 (edited) Yeah, I'm not arguing that the Bills don't draw a lot of interest. I guess I am not following the point you are trying to make. My original point was that George Edwards sucks, not sure what this has to do with that. No one forced the Bills to sign Edwards, there are dozens of other candidates out there. Trying to say that it is impossible to hire a good coach because we are the Bills is a little ridiculous. If you spend the money, you can get a coach. Especially young aspiring ones looking for an opportunity. I'm not sure why some people think throwing money at a "name" coach is going to work. Consider the following: 1) Any "name" coach is going to have money already. 2) Any "name" coach is going to get a big money offer from any team that wants them. 3) Any "name" coach is going to go to a team where they can have success in a short time, not have to rebuild from scratch and take 5 years or longer. 4) Any "name" coach is going to want to go to a team with an established very good QB already in place, or at least in the system and being groomed. 5) The Bills have sucked for the vast majority of their existence. 6) The Bills are perceived, real or not, that any time they manage to get a good player, said player ends up on another team when their rookie contract expires, if not sooner. What "name" coach in their right mind comes to Buffalo? This is how we ended up with Nix and Gailey. And as far as aspiring young coaches go, even they want some chance of success to make a name for themselves. Teams like the Bills end up getting desperate, not aspiring. Lastly, and I know this is way at the bottom of the list, the Bills are in Buffalo NY. I said it before, I think the Bills did a great job getting Gailey, and Nix for that matter. I believe it to be the absolute best they could get given the above circumstances. Edited May 19, 2011 by CodeMonkey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 Its not as big a mess as people think.....it is just a "perfect storm" of issues - When you are trying to play a scheme you dont have the players for and - When players you count on start getting hurt and - When you are relying on aging players who are no longer able to be dominant and - You are implementing a scheme for the first time with new coaching staff You get my drift? This year will be different - Older players no longer getting it done have been jettisoned - Rookies will have anohter year of experience under their belts - Strong draft to fill holes - Bringing in a solid defensive mind in wanstad - Players RETURNING from injury like Batten I dont expect this defense to be top 5....but dont be suprised if they are not middle of the pack this next year and very good the following. The first thing you will see is people are NOT going to be getting 200 yard running games on us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbosrrgood Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 (edited) Your point was about Edwards being inexperienced and not having being successful before he was hired here. Which brought me to my point about how nobody else with a proven track record wanted to coach here. Thus leaving us very little options. Name them. Now name the ones that were realistic options. How is it ridiculous? Our front office and coaching staff have been a revolving door for quite a few years now. That doesn't make it very appealing when you also have a team with little talent to work with. Again, just because you are willing to pay doesn't mean they are willing to come coach. This franchise has a bad reputation and not many coaches may be willing to risk damage to their reputation because they weren't able to turn things around here. And who are these young and aspiring coaches looking for an opportunity? For one, Dom Capers was available last year (now super bowl champion). My point was that Edwards is a BAD coach. We managed to hire Gailey, who at least has SOME track record. We interviewed Shanahan, there was no way we were going to match Washington (even though they sucked too) though. Whats the difference between the Bills and Washington? MONEY. Also, I never said we had to go after a "big name guy". There are plenty of college, and NFL assistants that can be had at a price the Bills CAN afford. They just selected one that hasn't proven the ability to be a successful coach. And no, I am not going to name them all, if you don't believe it that's fine by me. According to your logic, the Bills will have to be the worst team in football for all of history, because it would be impossible to get any decent coach or player to sign here...Sorry, don't agree with that.. For one, Dom Capers was available last year (now super bowl champion). I'm not sure why some people think throwing money at a "name" coach is going to work. Consider the following: 1) Any "name" coach is going to have money already. 2) Any "name" coach is going to get a big money offer from any team that wants them. 3) Any "name" coach is going to go to a team where they can have success in a short time, not have to rebuild from scratch and take 5 years or longer. 4) Any "name" coach is going to want to go to a team with an established very good QB already in place, or at least in the system and being groomed. 5) The Bills have sucked for the vast majority of their existence. 6) The Bills are perceived, real or not, that any time they manage to get a good player, said player ends up on another team when their rookie contract expires, if not sooner. What "name" coach in their right mind comes to Buffalo? This is how we ended up with Nix and Gailey. And as far as aspiring young coaches go, even they want some chance of success to make a name for themselves. Teams like the Bills end up getting desperate, not aspiring. Lastly, and I know this is way at the bottom of the list, the Bills are in Buffalo NY. I said it before, I think the Bills did a great job getting Gailey, and Nix for that matter. I believe it to be the absolute best they could get given the above circumstances. I never said the Bills needed a "name" coach...And if the Bills went after Capers, maybe they could have had him. Or any other number of assistants in the NFL or college. Throwing money at a coach DOES work (See Shanahan...), sure there may be a few coaches that can "pick" their situations. But many, especially up and coming ones, will go to the highest bidder. After all there is no guarantee they will ever get another shot at that salary again... I am fine with hires of Nix and Gailey, at least they have some record of success. "5) The Bills have sucked for the vast majority of their existence. 6) The Bills are perceived, real or not, that any time they manage to get a good player, said player ends up on another team when their rookie contract expires, if not sooner. " Yeah, this is my point. Players and coaches are more than willing to stay if the Bills PAY. But they won't. If you think the Bills have to suck for eternity, because they have sucked recently. Why are you a fan? Why bother posting to these boards? Edited May 19, 2011 by Turbosrrgood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 No he didn't. He was absolutely terrible in coverage. He was absolutely terrible against the run. Couldn't seal the edge. That's not helping the defense. Maybe I should have clarified that. Moats was the only free agent or draftee that actually made some sort of an impact on the defense. Yeah he had gaffs but he was a rookie. He was the only player not named Kyle Williams that actually put some pressure on the QB in the last 7 games of the season. Yeah his run D wasn't that good but he did bring something and considering his draft position what he brought was pretty good. All in all my point was the only real help we got from last seasons off-season acquisitions was a 6th round pick that got some pressure on the QB towards the end of the season. Was he some sort of great impact player no BUT there was some sort of minimal impact in the pass rushing department and in the fact that he stayed healthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeMonkey Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 If you think the Bills have to suck for eternity, because they have sucked recently. Why are you a fan? Why bother posting to these boards? I don't recall saying anywhere that the Bills have to suck for all of eternity. Just saying how some people, apparently you being one but maybe not, seem to think the only thing you have to do to get a great coach is offer them a lot of money. It is my opinion that there are a lot of factors, and near the bottom of the list is money. I will shorten to one key phrase ... any team that is interested in a top flight coach will offer them a lot of money, that alone will not draw the top talent. No need to get personal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 Dave Wannstedt We have an offensive coordinator, but Gailey is obviously in charge of the offense. Edwards is the defensive coordinator but as assistant head coach, Wannstedt will be in charge of the defense. This really was a brilliant signing. I take the hiring of Wannstedt as a positive sign that Nix and Gailey didn't think Edwards was quite ready for the task of running an NFL D. Wannstedt is a veteran defensive mind who had success running multiple NFL defenses (Cowboys and Dolphins had a lot of success under him defensively) its not hard to see him as the "Real" defensive coordinator while Edwards learns to run a D under him for 2-3 years. Wannstedt's presence as well as a year running the system (For both the players and Edwards) should help the D. Along with the draft additions its not hard to see substantial improvement from the defense at all. As I said not going to be a top 10 running D but its easy to see the team finishing in the 22-18 range. Which doesn't sound good but its a good improvement from 32. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbosrrgood Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 any team that is interested in a top flight coach will offer them a lot of money, that alone will not draw the top talent. Shanahan to the Redskins. The Bills had a better record than the Skins, a better team. I am sure Ralph would have have given him the keys to the castle...The difference money, there was no way Ralph was going to outbid Snyder. There were not many teams going after Shanahan, it was basically the Bills and Washington. I take the hiring of Wannstedt as a positive sign that Nix and Gailey didn't think Edwards was quite ready for the task of running an NFL D. Wannstedt is a veteran defensive mind who had success running multiple NFL defenses (Cowboys and Dolphins had a lot of success under him defensively) its not hard to see him as the "Real" defensive coordinator while Edwards learns to run a D under him for 2-3 years. Wannstedt's presence as well as a year running the system (For both the players and Edwards) should help the D. Along with the draft additions its not hard to see substantial improvement from the defense at all. As I said not going to be a top 10 running D but its easy to see the team finishing in the 22-18 range. Which doesn't sound good but its a good improvement from 32. +1, my feelings exactly. The fact that Nix quickly realized Edwards couldn't handle the D coordinator job and looked for a way to improve was a very positive sign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 Could we have actually had Dom Caper as our D coordinator? I wouldn't have objected to that at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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