Chris Kelsay anyone?

[Estelle Getty]

Now let's not forget we gave him a 4 year 24 million dollar extension last september. And you don't give someone roughly 6 million a year to be a second string linebacker. So we have to pencil him in as a starter at OLB. Trust me I do not like this notion either but it is a fact. In my opinion we should have let his contract run its course and been done with him. He was a "nice" player for us on a losing team. I compare his value to that of Josh Reed. Someone who was not a Donte Whitner type bust(although they both have the same Coy Wire type of coverage skills)....But he is no Bruce Smith or Phil Hansen for that matter. I fear he will hold back solid young players such as Moats. Just my honest take on the matter.

[Zulu Cthulhu]

Is CK's contract 24 mil guaranteed? I thought he was only making around 2mil next year, with much of the contract $$ being backloaded.

 

The Bills don't "have to" start him at OLB. That's not a fact. He can play 43 end in nickel packages. That's probably where we'll see him most.

[Estelle Getty]

Is CK's contract 24 mil guaranteed? I thought he was only making around 2mil next year, with much of the contract $$ being backloaded.

 

The Bills don't "have to" start him at OLB. That's not a fact. He can play 43 end in nickel packages. That's probably where we'll see him most.

 

I respectfully disagree. Although it is unclear on how much of his contract is guaranteed you simply do not give out 4 year 24 million dollar extensions for a situational pass rusher. Oh wait we did do that with Aaron Maybin....although he is more of a situational special teams player. Well atleast Buddy Nix wasn't responsible for that. I must say though Dwan Edwards didn't look to hot before he got hurt last year but that contract was more of whaleys fault. Also that Cornell Green signing by him was awful since we are talking about bad contracts.

Edited May 18, 2011 by Brian Billick

[vincec]

I think that Kelsay will see significant playing time in the 4 DL alignments as the LDE. If/when Merriman gets injured, he will see some time as LOLB as well. Last season, he was the Bills best pass rusher (yeah, I know...) so he will definitely play some regardless of his contract.

[playman]

i remember an article not long ago where buddy mentioned the importance of " locker-room-guys"

 

my best guess is that kelsay is just that.

 

and thats where he earns his money.

 

i guess.........

[Meathead]

kelsay will be paid 3 mil this season

 

they will release him after this year, or an outside chance he renegotiates to stay here a couple more seasons

 

only 2 mil of his current deal was guaranteed. he will never ever never earn anything close to the total of his backloaded contract

 

but dont let the facts slow down your unbridled hatred

[Bangarang]

Kelsay isn't going to start simply because of the extension. If that were the case then Chan should be fired right now. If I had to bet right now, I'd say our starting OLBs are Merriman and Moats.

 

Besides, Kelsay isn't even making that much money. Below is his salary for the new contract he signed. He's due an $11million bonus which brings it up to $24 million. I'm not sure if he's been paid the bonus yet but I imagine if he hasn't, he may get cut well before he's owed the bonus.

 

2011: 2,000,000

2012: 3,500,000

2013: 3,725,000

2014: 3,745,000

Edited May 18, 2011 by Bangarang

[Bangarang]

I respectfully disagree. Although it is unclear on how much of his contract is guaranteed you simply do not give out 4 year 24 million dollar extensions for a situational pass rusher. Oh wait we did do that with Aaron Maybin....although he is more of a situational special teams player. Well atleast Buddy Nix wasn't responsible for that. I must say though Dwan Edwards didn't look to hot before he got hurt last year but that contract was more of whaleys fault. Also that Cornell Green signing by him was awful since we are talking about bad contracts.

 

Dwan was leading the NFL among d-lineman in tackles before he got injured. He wasn't great, but he wasn't bad either.

[Ghost of Rob Johnson]

9/29/2010: Signed a five-year, $28.2 million contract. The deal contains $11 million in bonus money. 2011: $2 million, 2012: $3.5 million, 2013: $3.725 million, 2014: $3.745 million, 2015: Free Agent

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/2278/player?r=1

 

 

Also, I thought Dwan Edwards was a great signing and was playing great before his injury.

Edited May 18, 2011 by Ghost of Rob Johnson

[BillsObserver]

The original poster is trying to prove his point by saying the Bills HAVE TO START HIM BECAUSE OF HIS CONTRACT EXTENSION while not acknowledging how little of that contract is guaranteed.

 

It's simply not the case. If (big if) things shake out like I expect, Kelsay will be the guy rotating in as a backup and I'm cool with that.

[Canadian Bills Fan]

I respectfully disagree. Although it is unclear on how much of his contract is guaranteed you simply do not give out 4 year 24 million dollar extensions for a situational pass rusher. Oh wait we did do that with Aaron Maybin....although he is more of a situational special teams player. Well atleast Buddy Nix wasn't responsible for that. I must say though Dwan Edwards didn't look to hot before he got hurt last year but that contract was more of whaleys fault. Also that Cornell Green signing by him was awful since we are talking about bad contracts.

 

 

Not really. They paid him a 1st round pick contract. Then found out that he isnt even a situational pass rusher

[Turbosrrgood]

I respectfully disagree. Although it is unclear on how much of his contract is guaranteed you simply do not give out 4 year 24 million dollar extensions for a situational pass rusher. Oh wait we did do that with Aaron Maybin....although he is more of a situational special teams player. Well atleast Buddy Nix wasn't responsible for that. I must say though Dwan Edwards didn't look to hot before he got hurt last year but that contract was more of whaleys fault. Also that Cornell Green signing by him was awful since we are talking about bad contracts.

 

People love to knock Kelsey just for the sake of doing it. Don't forget, he was drafted in the 2nd round several coaches and GM's ago as 4-3 defensive end. He was never a "Bruce smith" pass rusher, but I actually WOULD compare him to a Phil Hanson type. He played all aspects of the 4-3 fairly well, and was good against the run.

 

Now he has been moved to 3-4 LB, a situation that was completely new to him last year on a team with virtually no top end defensive talent. Equally important, they have an awful D-coordinator (Edwards's group was awful in Miami, and awful with the Bills). Kelsey was arguably the Bills best defensive player towards the end of the year while playing a mix of 3-4 and 4-3.

 

Situational pass rusher? He played almost every down, and is good against the run. I am not saying Kelsey is some great player..but people love to blame him for all of the defenses problems without justification.

 

If I had to bet right now, I'd say our starting OLBs are Merriman and Moats.

 

Besides, Kelsay isn't even making that much money. Below is his salary for the new contract he signed. He's due an $11million bonus which brings it up to $24 million. I'm not sure if he's been paid the bonus yet but I imagine if he hasn't, he may get cut well before he's owed the bonus.

 

2011: 2,000,000

2012: 3,500,000

2013: 3,725,000

2014: 3,745,000

 

Thank you for some facts about the money, instead of assuming he is getting paid a top end salary.

 

I understand pulling for Moats, but he is not even close to being a starting OLB in the NFL. Ironically HE is the guy that is a pure situational pass rusher. When playing the run he really struggles to wrap guys up, and gets torched in the open field. He pretty much CANT drop into pass coverage. I like Moats rushing the passer, but if he is our starter we are in real trouble...

 

Like it or not, you have to find someone BETTER than Kelsey, before you can replace him.

Edited May 18, 2011 by Turbosrrgood

[muffmonster]

I think Kelsay was a decent player as a 4-3 end. As an OLB though, all I can think of anymore is when he was juked out of his pants by the oh so ever nimble Matt Cassell. That and his inability to seal the edge, penchant for blowing into the backfield 10 yards past the play, and molasses like pass coverage.

[BuffaloBill]

i remember an article not long ago where buddy mentioned the importance of " locker-room-guys"

 

my best guess is that kelsay is just that.

 

and thats where he earns his money.

 

i guess.........

 

 

Hopefully this year he earns it cleaning the locker room after he is cut. The guy can't play lb. He is also not a feared pass rusher so a situational 4-3 player on a team trying to go 3-4is not a fit.

[BuffaloBillsMagic1]

Third down rusher is only real spot so I guess not a great fit for our team at 6 million per year with a salary cap probable. Doesn't matter as we will be 20 or so millionunder the cap anyway.

[Turbosrrgood]

I think Kelsay was a decent player as a 4-3 end. As an OLB though, all I can think of anymore is when he was juked out of his pants by the oh so ever nimble Matt Cassell. That and his inability to seal the edge, penchant for blowing into the backfield 10 yards past the play, and molasses like pass coverage.

 

I can't argue that. He is a 4-3 end, not an OLB.

 

My question is, who is going to play OLB instead of him? Moats? If you thought Kelsey couldn't seal the edge, make open field, or cover anybody...Watch Moats. Moats is a 1 dementional player and another 4-3 defensive end (and an undersized one at that), being converted to OLB. I really like Moats as a situational pass rusher, but this guy is NOT an NFL starter.

 

Kelsey is less than an ideal LB, but towards the end of last year the Bills were playing just as much 4-3. Kelsey looked good in that formation.

 

The sad truth is that the Bills simply lack talent, and at the moment Kelsey is the best we have at that position...Before we get rid of him we need someone to replace him...

[shoretalk]

Looking back on 2010 had Kelsay somewhat effective as a DE so that is where I expect to see him in passing situations since he had some success rushing the qb. I cannot imagine him back inthe olb spot. There is a value to guys like Kelsay inspire of the hate some on this board have for him. His contract dollars do not guarantee him starting ... We have some great young players and hopefully Merriman who will turn around the mess we had at LB both inside and out.

[muffmonster]

I can't argue that. He is a 4-3 end, not an OLB.

 

My question is, who is going to play OLB instead of him? Moats? If you thought Kelsey couldn't seal the edge, make open field, or cover anybody...Watch Moats. Moats is a 1 dementional player and another 4-3 defensive end (and an undersized one at that), being converted to OLB. I really like Moats as a situational pass rusher, but this guy is NOT an NFL starter.

 

Kelsey is less than an ideal LB, but towards the end of last year the Bills were playing just as much 4-3. Kelsey looked good in that formation.

 

The sad truth is that the Bills simply lack talent, and at the moment Kelsey is the best we have at that position...Before we get rid of him we need someone to replace him...

 

I guess Moats OLB inability didn't stick out as much to me obviously as did Kelsay. I do remember Moats was not good in coverage, and did struggle against the run. I guess with Moats you have a rookie who can hopefully improve, I don't see that Kelsay has that same upside. You are right though that position is certainly a question right now.

Edited May 18, 2011 by Brimley's Stache

[DrDawkinstein]

Ive done my best not to bash Kelsay too badly, even when he's deserved it. But at this point, I can see him being a cut this year, or most certainly next year. I dont even consider Kelsay as an OLB. IF he keeps a roster spot it will be to strictly play the 4-3 DE, IMO. Even with that being said, we already have a bunch of DEs. Not a lot of room for Kelsay here...

 

We could easily have the line-up of:

NT Troup, Torell

DE/NT Marcell Dareus

DE/NT Williams, Kyle

DE Edwards, Dwan

DE Carrington, Alex

DE Johnson, Spencer

 

OLB Merriman, Shawne

OLB Moats, Arthur

OLB Batten, Danny

OLB Coleman, Antonio

OLB Kirlew, Jammie

 

Practice Squad:

NT Michael Jasper

DT Heard, Kellen

 

Cut:

97 McCargo, John DE 6-2 307 27 5 NC State

90 Kelsay, Chris LB 6-4 261 31 8 Nebraska

58 Maybin, Aaron LB 6-4 250 23 2 Penn State

 

Of course, with Kelsay's pay being pretty cheap this year, they may keep him around to balance out the youngins. Although, Im not so sure I want our kids learning anything about football from him...

Edited May 18, 2011 by DrDareustein

[Turbosrrgood]

We have some great young players and hopefully Merriman who will turn around the mess we had at LB both inside and out.

 

Merriman is definitely key. We need to pray that he can somehow stay healthy and play at a high level. We have SOME young players with upside at the LB position, but I wouldn't use the word great at this point...Here is how I see our 3-4 LB set up as we stand now...

 

OLB - Merriman (cross your fingers, pray, something...) Torbor as backup?

OLB - Kelsey/Moats (uhoh) Maybe Torbor?

MLB - This is a big mess, not knowing whether we have POZ (probably not). We have Kelvin Sheppard (hasn't played a down, or even signed yet...But he already looks like our best MLB), Then the journeyman veterans Andra Davis, Akin Ayodele. They are both over 30. Ayodele simply sucks in my opinion, Davis was OK in his prime but he's 32 going on 33 now. The wild card here is Batten, he was injured in the preseason last year and was a late round pick projected at MLB. Coleman looked ok to me as well.

 

Looking at this, Sheppard was (hopefully) an improvement. But other than him, even IF Merriman can play, we still need a lot of work....At least our D-line looks better.

 

I didn't include Maybin...he simply isn't worth mentioning.

 

Edit - They also drafted Chris White...but hope he never has to start...He is a special teams guy.

 

Ive done my best not to bash Kelsay too badly, even when he's deserved it. But at this point, I can see him being a cut this year, or most certainly next year. I dont even consider Kelsay as an OLB. IF he keeps a roster spot it will be to strictly play the 4-3 DE, IMO. Even with that being said, we already have a bunch of DEs. Not a lot of room for Kelsay here...

 

We could easily have the line-up of:

NT Troup, Torell

DE/NT Marcell Dareus

DE/NT Williams, Kyle

DE Edwards, Dwan

DE Carrington, Alex

DE Johnson, Spencer

 

OLB Merriman, Shawne

OLB Moats, Arthur

OLB Batten, Danny

OLB Coleman, Antonio

OLB Kirlew, Jammie

 

Practice Squad:

NT Michael Jasper

DT Heard, Kellen

 

Cut:

97 McCargo, John DE 6-2 307 27 5 NC State

90 Kelsay, Chris LB 6-4 261 31 8 Nebraska

58 Maybin, Aaron LB 6-4 250 23 2 Penn State

 

Of course, with Kelsay's pay being pretty cheap this year, they may keep him around to balance out the youngins. Although, Im not so sure I want our kids learning anything about football from him...

 

With the Bills playing a "hybrid" (wannstedt) defense, they need some 4-3 DE's...The DE's you have listed are PURE 3-4 end (maybe not Carringtion), and don't rush the passer well. That defense can't work without a guy like Kelsey.

 

As far as the OLB's listed...that list doesn't exactly strike fear into the hearts of opposing offenses. Merriman is the only starting quality OLB in my opinion, and hasn't played in 3 years...

Edited May 18, 2011 by Turbosrrgood