The Senator Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 (edited) How is it no contest? Andrew Luck came out of nowhere last season and put up huge numbers. Who's to say somebody else doesn't do the same? Personally, I'm hoping that 'somebody else' will be Ryan Fitzpatrick! Some of you guys are too busy falling in love with Luck and not looking at the other potential franchise QBs possibly declaring next season. Last season there were more people in love with Mallett before the season started. People thought he was going to be a top 3 pick. Then Luck came out of the woodwork and started getting recognition. Next year, Luck will be the guy that everyone has a hard on for and someone will come out and emerge. Oklahoma's Landry Jones will be the object of TSW's next annual college-QB love affair, as the Sooners win the NCAA BCS title. Luck will fall in stature as Stanford founders, and quite possibly may even be available for the Bills when we draft in the bottom third of round one in 2012. 19 and 0 baby!!! GO BILLSSS!!!! PosLUZSny . Edited May 9, 2011 by The Senator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koufax Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 This one's easy. The Bills don't have a franchise QB. Without a franchise QB their odds of winning the Super Bowl are close to nil. Teams which have franchise QBs almost never let them hit free agency. (Drew Brees being the rare exception.) Andrew Luck is the closest thing to a guaranteed franchise QB that Bills fans are likely to see in a long time. Seven or eight years from now, no one will care about how well or badly the Bills did in 2011. But it will matter, greatly, whether the Bills came away from the 2012 draft with a franchise QB. Just as Tom Brady changes the equation for the Patriots, a player like Andrew Luck could change the equation for the Bills, for many years to come. I don't think you are saying what you think you are saying. Don't need 3-13 to get a franchise QB. Forget about 6th round Brady, but 2nd Round Brees, #24 Rodgers, #11 Rothlisberger, all say hello to #1 Jamarcus Russell, #3 Vince Young, etc. Following up 4-12 without significant strides forward will really affect the culture of this team, and reflect badly on the organization and coaching staff. We went 0-8 with a QB change, adapting to a new system, getting two key linemen back to full strength after major injuries, etc. After that we went 4-4, and could have been better. For that team to have an established QB now, a bunch of young guys maturing, and an impact Dareus (and potentially Merriman returning to form) it is really hard to think of this team doing worse than last year. So rooting for 3-13 while your team wins is more depressing than hoping for 3-13 in the first place. This team will be better than people expect, and and will enjoy calculating playoff scenarios in December even if we come up short. We have no chance whatsoever at the #1 pick, so rooting for it becomes even more pathetic. Go Bills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwolf02 Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 I'd rather go 4-12 and get the 5th pick than 3-13 and the 1st. Losing is for, well, losers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 St Louis went 7-9 last season with new QB Sam Bradford and just barely missed the playoffs as Seattle took the division with a 7-9 record, their new OC is ex Bronco HC Josh McDaniel's. If the Rams can protect Bradford and find some WR;s they will win the division next year Miami did better then Buffalo at 7-9 also, the Dolphin team I was thinking of was the one that went 1-15 and changes the entire staff like Buffalo did last year, that team went to the playoffs the very next year with an 11-5 record and took the division from the Patriots. Instead of getting better then 6-10 with Jauron / Fewell in 09, last year the Bills went 4-12, exactly what improvements were made to the offense to make anyone think that Fitz won't be running for his life again this year? Could be wrong Harvey, I think Boone's point was maybe the grass is looking luscious to you on the other side of the fence? Under Vermeil, St Louis sucked for 2 years b4 kicking big in '99. Under Spags, they sucked in 2009 then looked like they started to turn it around last year -- in the weakest division in football -- I think they're a handful of pieces short yet but we'll see... Yeah, Sparano got to walk the Miracle Mile 1-15 to 11-5 and everyone was ready to anoint him, now the team is 7-9 two years running and looking like 11-5 was a fluke. Point being when a team does the "Miracle Flip" like the 'Fins 3 years ago everyone is all over it but other teams that have sucked for a long time take a while to really turn it around. I too was very unhappy about the D last year. It is possible to transition from 4-3 to 3-4 without tossing out the baby. That was a coaching failure IMO. Reason to hope is the arrival of Wannstache plus all the drafting. I agree with you about Green. What can one say? The FA that were brought in last year were not impressive. If that is the future, shades not necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Blizzard Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 Interesting point. The Bills had a great draft in 1985, but they still sucked their way to a 2-14 finish. Personally I am ready for at least an 8 win season, but if they end up at the bottom of the barrel, Andrew Luck would be a good consolation prize . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 (edited) I hate all this Andrew Luck talk. I am willing to guarantee that next season another QB or two will come out and light it up and people will be wetting themselves over them. You can still get a franchise QB without being the worst team in the league. The Packers or Buccaneers didn't need #1 picks to get their respective franchise QBs. A while back I did some research, and found that over the past decade or so, an average of less than one bona fide franchise QB has entered the league each year. Any QB with a career average of 7.2 - 7.3 yards per attempt was considered a possible franchise QB (depending on other factors), and any QB with a career average of 7.4 yards per attempt or more was considered a definite franchise QB. QBs with career averages below 7.2 yards per attempt were considered non-franchise QBs. With less than one new franchise QB entering the league each year, a typical NFL team will receive a new franchise QB about once every 40 years (IIRC). Given that a franchise QB's career lasts perhaps about 10 years, that 40 year average implies that about one team in four will have a franchise QB at any given time. The Bills last received a franchise QB in 1983, so (assuming this team's experience is average), it should next expect to receive one sometime around the year 2023. Of course, the above is merely an average prediction. About half the teams in the league will experience above-average results. For example, once Favre moved on, Aaron Rodgers stood ready to pick up where he'd left off. Most teams aren't like that. Consider the QB class of '83. The Bills have yet to find a replacement for Jim Kelly, the Dolphins desperately need a replacement for Dan Marino, and the Broncos (with the exception of a few years of Cutler) have not found a replacement for John Elway. (As an aside, Culter's career average is 7.2 yards per attempt, putting him in the borderline franchise category.) Between them, the class of '83 QBs experienced a number of Super Bowl losses. The Dolphins and the Broncos both lost to the 49ers, who are currently searching for a replacement for Joe Montana and Steve Young. The Broncos and the Bills each lost to the Redskins, a team which has been searching for a franchise QB for decades. The Bills and Broncos also lost to the Giants, a team which would subsequently find a franchise QB in the form of Eli Manning. (Like his brother, Eli was picked first overall.) The Bills experienced two consecutive Super Bowl losses to the Cowboys, a team which hasn't had a franchise QB since Aikman hung up his cleats. While there's no such thing as a 100% safe draft pick at any position, at any point in the draft, Andrew Luck is the closest thing we're going to see to a safe/franchise QB. A team with a franchise QB has a much higher ceiling than a team without one. Yes, there is the possibility of getting a franchise QB later in the draft. But as a Bills fan, how many promising possibilities have you seen slip through this team's grasp? Getting the Andrew Luck pick removes the acquisition of a franchise QB from the realm of "maybe the Bills will someday get lucky" and puts it firmly into the realm of "the Bills have a clear plan which is likely to succeed." The pain of a 1-15 season is definitely worth that! Edited May 9, 2011 by Edwards' Arm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 Could be wrong Harvey, I think Boone's point was maybe the grass is looking luscious to you on the other side of the fence? Under Vermeil, St Louis sucked for 2 years b4 kicking big in '99. Under Spags, they sucked in 2009 then looked like they started to turn it around last year -- in the weakest division in football -- I think they're a handful of pieces short yet but we'll see... Yeah, Sparano got to walk the Miracle Mile 1-15 to 11-5 and everyone was ready to anoint him, now the team is 7-9 two years running and looking like 11-5 was a fluke. Point being when a team does the "Miracle Flip" like the 'Fins 3 years ago everyone is all over it but other teams that have sucked for a long time take a while to really turn it around. I too was very unhappy about the D last year. It is possible to transition from 4-3 to 3-4 without tossing out the baby. That was a coaching failure IMO. Reason to hope is the arrival of Wannstache plus all the drafting. I agree with you about Green. What can one say? The FA that were brought in last year were not impressive. If that is the future, shades not necessary. I still think some of you guys have your beer goggles on over your beloved Bills...switching to a different defense when they clearly didn't have the proper personnel for it is an excuse... sheer stupidity to me...good coaches don't do stupid stuff like that. Instead of looking at other recent teams lets look back and see what Chuck Knox did to improve one of the worst teams in NFL history, same with Marv Levy. Levy's first statements were, We want to get as good as we can as fast as we can", neither Knox or Levy regressed. Well then WTH happened to the running game, same players at RB position in Lynch and Jackson plus an early first round RB that was supposed to be a player that could make the O line block better (Gaileys words). The HC even named this new kid the starter over Lynch and he did start the game at RB, that lasted a few plays. Doesn't the fact that CJ Spiller was named the starter by the HC and then AFTER he started the coaches found out he didn't know protection schemes, didn't know pass routes, didn't know the play book. give anyone but me pause to think these coaches don't know what they are doing? You can blame the Cornell Green for hitting the proverbial end of career wall, but then who graded this player and thought he was ready to start the season? The running game got worse, the special teams got worse, the defense went from being in the top 5 secondary to gawd awful bad and the run defense that had been porous became even worse. I just think that all the Bills did when they hired Chan Gailey is hire the offensive version of Dicki Jauron, all he does well is the passing offense, all Jauron knew was the secondary. This set of coaches are the type that require a 5 year plan, and even then they might not improve very far with Rex Ryan's Jets and Bill Belichick Patriots in the division Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 (edited) I still think some of you guys have your beer goggles on over your beloved Bills...switching to a different defense when they clearly didn't have the proper personnel for it is an excuse... sheer stupidity to me...good coaches don't do stupid stuff like that. Instead of looking at other recent teams lets look back and see what Chuck Knox did to improve one of the worst teams in NFL history, same with Marv Levy. Levy's first statements were, We want to get as good as we can as fast as we can", neither Knox or Levy regressed. Well then WTH happened to the running game, same players at RB position in Lynch and Jackson plus an early first round RB that was supposed to be a player that could make the O line block better (Gaileys words). The HC even named this new kid the starter over Lynch and he did start the game at RB, that lasted a few plays. Doesn't the fact that CJ Spiller was named the starter by the HC and then AFTER he started the coaches found out he didn't know protection schemes, didn't know pass routes, didn't know the play book. give anyone but me pause to think these coaches don't know what they are doing? You can blame the Cornell Green for hitting the proverbial end of career wall, but then who graded this player and thought he was ready to start the season? The running game got worse, the special teams got worse, the defense went from being in the top 5 secondary to gawd awful bad and the run defense that had been porous became even worse. I just think that all the Bills did when they hired Chan Gailey is hire the offensive version of Dicki Jauron, all he does well is the passing offense, all Jauron knew was the secondary. This set of coaches are the type that require a 5 year plan, and even then they might not improve very far with Rex Ryan's Jets and Bill Belichick Patriots in the division Much better than claiming Miami and St. Louis had immediate turnarounds Personally, I'm hoping that 'somebody else' will be Ryan Fitzpatrick! Oklahoma's Landry Jones will be the object of TSW's next annual college-QB love affair, as the Sooners win the NCAA BCS title. Luck will fall in stature as Stanford founders, and quite possibly may even be available for the Bills when we draft in the bottom third of round one in 2012. 19 and 0 baby!!! GO BILLSSS!!!! PosLUZSny . You make this board worth reading Edited May 10, 2011 by Big Bad Boone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 I'd go with 8-8 or better. Screw this silly notion of purposely looking for a top 5 draft pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ETD66SS Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 Andrew Luck. Honestly, an 8-8 season is a failure, so why not fail AND get the best QB to come along in a long while? I don't think we have to hope for a flameout, Fitz will take care of that for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockinon Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 The losers supporting losers thread. How quaint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 Andrew Luck. Honestly, an 8-8 season is a failure, so why not fail AND get the best QB to come along in a long while? I don't think we have to hope for a flameout, Fitz will take care of that for us. So when watching this year which games will you root for the Bills to lose or will you just want them to lose them all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 The losers supporting losers thread. How quaint. Andrew Luck is no loser. That's why we want him in a Bills uniform. To be a great team, you have to have great players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BUFFALOKIE Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 (edited) That is loser talk. We don't want no stinkin 8-8 season, and we sure as hell don't want no No.1 draft pick. I wish these threads would STOP! Edited May 10, 2011 by Stranger in a Strange Land Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddog69 Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 With apologies to the OP, I HATE discussions like this (I know, then why bother reading and participating...). It's just not in my "fan DNA" to do anything other than root for wins. That's why the game is played. "Moral victories" are great when you're talking about little league. 8 wins > 3 wins. Screw the first pick. i disagree with this for several reasons. 1.) if you don;t make the playoffs, 8-8 is really no better than 3-13 and it just means you have less chance of improving your team in the draft 2.) Screw the first pick? That just seems silly. If you guaranteed me that we get Andrew Luck if we went 0-16 next year, I would sign up for that right now. 3.) The arguments that people put about "real fans never root for their team to lose" is short sighted. Losing a few extra games in a season can make a huge difference for the amount of games the teasm wins over multiple future seasons. I look at it this way. Go back to the 2003-2004 NFL Season and subsequent draft. Would you trade one victory and drafting Lee Evans in the 1st round for a Loss and getting Roethlisberger? If you say no, then I give up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 i disagree with this for several reasons. 1.) if you don;t make the playoffs, 8-8 is really no better than 3-13 and it just means you have less chance of improving your team in the draft 2.) Screw the first pick? That just seems silly. If you guaranteed me that we get Andrew Luck if we went 0-16 next year, I would sign up for that right now. 3.) The arguments that people put about "real fans never root for their team to lose" is short sighted. Losing a few extra games in a season can make a huge difference for the amount of games the teasm wins over multiple future seasons. I look at it this way. Go back to the 2003-2004 NFL Season and subsequent draft. Would you trade one victory and drafting Lee Evans in the 1st round for a Loss and getting Roethlisberger? If you say no, then I give up. So you have no problem watching this team go 0-16 this year? And if we do go 0-16, the team would need more help than just a QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Senator Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 Take a quick look at QBs drafted in the last 10 years and tell me which one(s) you think are worth an 0-16 season... link Luck has lost his head coach, his top 2 WRs, 3 starting offensive linemen, and FB Owen Marecic - he'll drop in value this season as Stanford falls in the PAC 12 standings. Not saying he won't be a great NFL QB some day, but only an idiot would say "Yeah, let's lose however many we need to lose - even if it means 0-16 - just to get Andy Luck!!!" GO BILLSSS!!!! 19 and 0 baby!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 (edited) Take a quick look at QBs drafted in the last 10 years and tell me which one(s) you think are worth an 0-16 season... link Luck has lost his head coach, his top 2 WRs, 3 starting offensive linemen, and FB Owen Marecic - he'll drop in value this season as Stanford falls in the PAC 12 standings. Not saying he won't be a great NFL QB some day, but only an idiot would say "Yeah, let's lose however many we need to lose - even if it means 0-16 - just to get Andy Luck!!!" GO BILLSSS!!!! 19 and 0 baby!!!!! If only "Andy" had Mike Leach to train him. And poor Jimmy Clausen…he could use a really good animal trainer. BTW, one thing in Luck's favor is that his OC from his first few seasons in now his head coach. Personally I'm predicting greatness for the guy but I have no desire to see us have an epically poor season just so we have a small shot at drafting him (also, the team isn't actually gonna tank in order to get a high draft position…let's deal in reality here). Edited May 10, 2011 by San Jose Bills Fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 let's deal in reality here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Senator Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 (edited) If only "Andy" had Mike Leach to train him. And poor Jimmy Clausen…he could use a really good animal trainer. Personally I'm predicting greatness for the guy but I have no desire to see us have an epically poor season just so we have a small shot at drafting him (also, the team isn't actually gonna tank in order to get a high draft position…let's deal in reality here). Now you're 'gettin it', EssJayBeeEff! Losing is for...well...losers! Just think...any team could have gone 19 and 0 and still signed... Graham Harrell BTW, one thing in Luck's favor is that his OC from his first few seasons in now his head coach. Somehow I just don't think that's gonna help young Andy much with this... Sep. 3 vs. San Jose State Sep. 10 at Duke Sep. 17 at Arizona Oct. 1 vs. UCLA Oct. 8 vs. Colorado Oct. 15 at Washington State Oct. 22 vs. Washington Oct. 29 at USC Nov. 5 at Oregon State Nov. 12 vs. Oregon Nov. 19 vs. California Nov. 26 vs. Notre Dame (In addition to Harbaugh and the key losses on offense, they lost their defensive coordinator and their defensive 'front seven' is also decimated.) Edited May 10, 2011 by The Senator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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