I found some tape of Quinn, Austin

[bizell]

youtube.com/watch?v=CNoYxbvKxXE

 

I found a better video on Quinn. I've noticed in a lot of his videos that he shows GREAT discipline. Of all his characteristics, I like the fact that he plays under control. He's not just going 100 miles per hour to the ball. I like Quinn.

6 of his 11 sacks that year came against powerhouses virginia (3-9) and duke (5-7). it's a lot easier to be disciplined when you're playing against stiffs, like that virginia OT looked like he was

[K-9]

6 of his 11 sacks that year came against powerhouses virginia (3-9) and duke (5-7). it's a lot easier to be disciplined when you're playing against stiffs, like that virginia OT looked like he was

 

I hear what you're saying but all you can ask of a kid is to line up and play against whomever is on the schedule. Scouts do take level of competition into account. They have to see dominating performances against weaker competition. I think Quinn gave them that in his only year of college ball. Scouts will dig very deep to see how he did against better competition. But they won't be put off by lack of sacks, etc. In the absence of stats, they'll be looking to see how he plays the position and whether or not that helped his team more than anything. They'll look to see if Quinn dictated the play against better comp or vice-versa. Was he someone the better comp game-planned for, etc.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[DrDawkinstein]

6 of his 11 sacks that year came against powerhouses virginia (3-9) and duke (5-7). it's a lot easier to be disciplined when you're playing against stiffs, like that virginia OT looked like he was

 

So you agree that teams like Boise St should therefore never even come close to being ranked, and their players shouldnt be drafted?

 

(note: i DO believe that as well)

[Turbosrrgood]

You have to keep in mind when you watch that video that they are basically showing ONLY successful plays for Ponder, which generally won't coincide with a successful play by Quinn. Although watching plays specifically where Quinn is not really involved still makes me think highly of him. It seems that he really follows the game plan, keeps contain well on running plays. He shows the ability to blitz from any angle or position, and has inside moves.

 

What I took more from this video though, is that Ponder looks a whole lot like Trent Edwards. His arm does not impress me in the least, lots of "ducks" and short throws. The one area where he DOES look good is pocket presence. He seemed able to read blitzes well and get rid of the ball quickly. He might "fit" for the Bills, but do we really need another lack luster stop gap QB? (no)

 

6 of his 11 sacks that year came against powerhouses virginia (3-9) and duke (5-7). it's a lot easier to be disciplined when you're playing against stiffs, like that virginia OT looked like he was

 

Forget about the stats, regardless of what teams they played. All college teams play against some soft opponents, and that is usually when they have their best games. He looked dominant against multiple teams, and plays a complete game...not just a pure pass rusher.

[Ramius]

You have to keep in mind when you watch that video that they are basically showing ONLY successful plays for Ponder, which generally won't coincide with a successful play by Quinn. Although watching plays specifically where Quinn is not really involved still makes me think highly of him. It seems that he really follows the game plan, keeps contain well on running plays. He shows the ability to blitz from any angle or position, and has inside moves.

 

What I took more from this video though, is that Ponder looks a whole lot like Trent Edwards. His arm does not impress me in the least, lots of "ducks" and short throws. The one area where he DOES look good is pocket presence. He seemed able to read blitzes well and get rid of the ball quickly. He might "fit" for the Bills, but do we really need another lack luster stop gap QB? (no)

 

 

 

Forget about the stats, regardless of what teams they played. All college teams play against some soft opponents, and that is usually when they have their best games. He looked dominant against multiple teams, and plays a complete game...not just a pure pass rusher.

 

Ponder is about as far from Trent Edwards as you can get.

[NewEra]

Of course the Quinn highlight videos are going to show him making good plays. The point is, it only shows his great plays. Everyone looks good on their highlight reels. Those are the select good plays he made. What does he do on the plays that he doesn't get a sack or a tackles. Does he take himself out of the play? Does he go 100%? Does he show good technique, strength or speed? Or does he only look good on his "highlights"? People link the Nebraska vs A&M video and blast Miller, but when the ponder video is shown, they say that it's a ponder video, of course there's no Quinn highlights. Correct, they aren't going to show his highlights, but they are going to show what he does when 90% of the time. Which wasn't much. He WAS ineffective that game, it doesn't matter if they dont show his highlights. The video showed 35 of his 40 throws, of those 35 throws, he had zero impact, minus 1 hurry. But it means nothing because it was a ponder highlight video. Can you say Hypocrite? Argue all you want, but of you blast Miller for the Nebraska video and defend Quinn for the ponder video, you're being a hypocrite. The funny thing about the people blasting Miller for the Nebraska game, they held Nebraska to 6 pts and stiffled the run the entire game. On Nebraskas final drive, Miller had a sack on 1st down, to make it 2nd and 15, then another on 3rd an 9 to make it 4th and 14. 4th went incomplete and A&M won. For as "small" as he was, he played big when the game was on the line and sealed the victory.

 

youtube.com/watch?v=CNoYxbvKxXE

 

I found a better video on Quinn. I've noticed in a lot of his videos that he shows GREAT discipline. Of all his characteristics, I like the fact that he plays under control. He's not just going 100 miles per hour to the ball. I like Quinn.

Of course he did, it's a highlight video. They are usually filled with great plays with emphasis on his skills. They never show the things he needs to work on, but hey, he's 265 pounds, he doesn't have to work on anything.

[DrDawkinstein]

Ponder is about as far from Trent Edwards as you can get.

 

Obviously some of us disagree.

[NewEra]

I just took a look at Quinns game logs from 2009. Here's what they look like, for those that are interested in stats. I'm not a stat guy, but for those who are, enjoy.

 

http://www.cfbstats.com/2009/player/457/1017309/sack/gamelog.html

 

http://www.cfbstats.com/2009/player/457/1017309/tackle/gamelog.html

[bizell]

So you agree that teams like Boise St should therefore never even come close to being ranked, and their players shouldnt be drafted?

 

(note: i DO believe that as well)

it's hard to say with boise due to the dearth of quality opponents, although to their credit they usually manage to handle whatever ranked opponent they end up playing. They haven't really been able to produce many quality NFL players for whatever reason. Would you say Ryan Clady shouldn't have been drafted, though?

 

back to original discussion:

 

re-watching the videos, man does Andrew Datko dominate Quinn. Once it's Datko's turn to go pro, I'd use those videos as something to pump up my stock ie "Look how my client dominated the #(some pick number that's way higher than it should have been) pick of the 2011 draft!"

[San Jose Bills Fan]

I agree with you NewEra.

 

I like Quinn and Miller both very much.

 

But the apologists and the rationalizations are just silly.

 

Ponder threw the ball 40 times in that game. We saw over 30 of those passing plays.

 

In the video, Quinn (for the 3rd time) is slow off the snap. He's often the last lineman moving at the snap. The best you can say for Quinn is that he positioned himself well on the vast majority of the plays. He showed one or two flashes of his pass rush ability. Yes Florida State game planned for him a bit…as all teams do against good pass rushers.

 

For those who like to point to stats, Quinn finished the ball game with one assisted tackle. No solo tackles, no sacks, no passes batted down.

 

One assisted tackle. Florida State had 67 total offensive plays in this game.

 

The only pressures I saw were on screen passes.

 

People who like and defend Quinn would really be better off saying…"yeah…he is a great player but he had a bad game against Florida State."

 

Moral of the story: Even great players have bad games.

 

As one scout recently said, "by the time we look at all of these players, none of them are worth drafting."

 

http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/boxscores/2009-10-22-north-carolina.html

[K-9]

I agree with you NewEra.

 

I like Quinn and Miller both very much.

 

But the apologists and the rationalizations are just silly.

 

Ponder threw the ball 40 times in that game. We saw over 30 of those passing plays.

 

In the video, Quinn (for the 3rd time) is slow off the snap. He's often the last lineman moving at the snap. The best you can say for Quinn is that he positioned himself well on the vast majority of the plays. He showed one or two flashes of his pass rush ability. Yes Florida State game planned for him a bit…as all teams do against good pass rushers.

 

For those who like to point to stats, Quinn finished the ball game with one assisted tackle. No solo tackles, no sacks, no passes batted down.

 

One assisted tackle. Florida State had 67 total offensive plays in this game.

The only pressures I saw were on screen passes.

 

People who like and defend Quinn would really be better off saying…"yeah…he is a great player but he had a bad game against Florida State."

 

And pressure on a screen pass is usually NOT a good thing. If a DE brings pressure on a screen and doesn't at least disrupt the play, well, that's just what the Oline wants.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

I just took a look at Quinns game logs from 2009. Here's what they look like, for those that are interested in stats. I'm not a stat guy, but for those who are, enjoy.

 

http://www.cfbstats.com/2009/player/457/1017309/sack/gamelog.html

 

http://www.cfbstats.com/2009/player/457/1017309/tackle/gamelog.html

 

Careful now, NewE. You just may get accused of having an agenda. Just remember, what's good for the goose is rarely good for the gander around here.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[1billsfan]

Of course the Quinn highlight videos are going to show him making good plays. The point is, it only shows his great plays. Everyone looks good on their highlight reels. Those are the select good plays he made. What does he do on the plays that he doesn't get a sack or a tackles. Does he take himself out of the play? Does he go 100%? Does he show good technique, strength or speed? Or does he only look good on his "highlights"? People link the Nebraska vs A&M video and blast Miller, but when the ponder video is shown, they say that it's a ponder video, of course there's no Quinn highlights. Correct, they aren't going to show his highlights, but they are going to show what he does when 90% of the time. Which wasn't much. He WAS ineffective that game, it doesn't matter if they dont show his highlights. The video showed 35 of his 40 throws, of those 35 throws, he had zero impact, minus 1 hurry. But it means nothing because it was a ponder highlight video. Can you say Hypocrite? Argue all you want, but of you blast Miller for the Nebraska video and defend Quinn for the ponder video, you're being a hypocrite. The funny thing about the people blasting Miller for the Nebraska game, they held Nebraska to 6 pts and stiffled the run the entire game. On Nebraskas final drive, Miller had a sack on 1st down, to make it 2nd and 15, then another on 3rd an 9 to make it 4th and 14. 4th went incomplete and A&M won. For as "small" as he was, he played big when the game was on the line and sealed the victory.

 

 

Of course he did, it's a highlight video. They are usually filled with great plays with emphasis on his skills. They never show the things he needs to work on, but hey, he's 265 pounds, he doesn't have to work on anything.

 

 

Exactly how does Quinn look bad on that Ponder video????...LOL

 

This was my impression...screen pass, screen pass, double team, roll right, hold, screen pass, double team, screen pass, triple team (6:05 mark), roll right, screen pass. I didn't mark it, but the second time they let Ponder throw the ball over 10 yards, the OT literally had Quinn in a choke hold. Ponder would have been one with the turf if he wasn't held on that play. That Ponder video shows me that FSU was keenly aware of Quinn's ability to blow up a play and did a great job in not allowing him to be a factor. Wow, it amazes me how two people can see entirely different events. It's no wonder there's so much arguing after a Bills game.

[thebandit27]

So you agree that teams like Boise St should therefore never even come close to being ranked, and their players shouldnt be drafted?

 

(note: i DO believe that as well)

 

I don't know so much about that; in my opinion the bigger red flag with Quinn's production is that the majority came in merely 3 games (8 of his 11 sacks). The fact that those 3 games were played against sub-par competition like Duke, East Carolina, and Virginia, simply augments that fact.

 

To me, it'd be less of a concern if he produced consistently and happened to have his best games against these teams, rather than having monster games against them and then showing well occasionally over the other 10 games.

 

As for Boise, take a guy like Titus Young. I don't get quite as concerned about his level of compeition because he produced consistently over a 2-season stretch. Now, that doesn't mean it's not still a concern, it just doesn't quite stick out as much as Quinn's variance.

 

That said, it's decidedly different to compare a WR's production to a DE's, but I'm sure you get what I'm saying.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Exactly how does Quinn look bad on that Ponder video???? LOL

Okay. I really hate getting caught up in these sorts of exchanges. But others have done some heavy lifting so I guess it's my turn.

 

You're advocating taking a player 3rd overall.

 

He last played football 18 months ago.

 

In this game you are now saying basically that "he doesn't look bad" (your actual words "exactly how does he look bad ?")

 

There were 67 plays in this game. Quinn had 1 assisted tackle.

 

In other words, he had ZERO impact in the game.

 

For the 3rd overall pick in the draft, I would expect a game-changer… a playmaker who's going to affect the outcome of the game…not someone who "didn't look bad."

 

C'mon billsfan…

 

If that was Miller in the video…let me just say that there's a ridiculous double standard going on with some posters here.

 

 

 

 

[1billsfan]

Okay. I really hate getting caught up in these sorts of exchanges. But others have done some heavy lifting so I guess it's my turn.

 

You're advocating taking a player 3rd overall.

 

He last played football 18 months ago.

 

In this game you are now saying basically that "he doesn't look bad" (your actual words "exactly how does he look bad ?")

 

There were 67 plays in this game. Quinn had 1 assisted tackle.

 

In other words, he had ZERO impact in the game.

 

For the 3rd overall pick in the draft, I would expect a game-changer… a playmaker who's going to affect the outcome of the game…not someone who "didn't look bad."

 

C'mon billsfan…

 

If that was Miller in the video…let me just say that there's a ridiculous double standard going on with some posters here.

 

I gave you the very real impression of what FSU did to make sure that Quinn was not a factor. Are you disputing that there were not a ton of screen passes? A few double teams? One triple team? Rolls outs only to the right away from Quinn? C'mon yourself. He wasn't a factor in that FSU's game plan ensured that he wouldn't be a factor...LOL

 

Go ahead and pick a Miller video and we'll see how objective I can be with it. Seriously, select any one that you wish to pick.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

I gave you the very real impression of what FSU did to make sure that Quinn was not a factor. He wasn't a factor in that FSU's game plan ensured that he wouldn't be a factor...LOL

Actually, I gave you the very real impression of what FSU did to make sure that Quinn was not a factor (it's called impartiality):

 

As I've stated before, I like Quinn a lot…but not more than Miller.

 

In Quinn's defense, Florida State's attack was a clinic on how to negate a pass rush. Sometimes they kept the tight end in. Other times they chipped with a back. Almost all the plays were quick developing with short QB drops. They also ran a few delays and screens to keep the defense honest.

 

Now the bad part. I counted 35 plays. Quinn got pressure on three but two of those plays were screen passes where pass rushers are baited into getting close to the QB.

 

The most distressing part of Quinn's play was that Florida State was behind in the game and clearly throwing on most every down. In spite of this, Quinn showed a slow first step on the majority of the plays and did not anticipate the snap count well at all.

 

In fact in many of the plays, Quinn was the last lineman moving at the snap.

Billsfan, Von Miller led the nation in sacks in 2009. By many experts testimony, he would have led the nation in sacks this year except that he was hobbled by a high ankle sprain at the beginning of the season. I believe he got all 11 of his sacks in the last 9 weeks.

 

Because he led the nation in sacks two years ago, teams were game planning for him all season long. Just like teams game plan for DeMarcus Ware, James Harrison, Dwight Freeney, etc. Just like they did for Adrian Clayborne and other college stars.

 

In other words, if you're a good pass rusher, you will be game planned for.

 

Do you think Bruce Smith (people like to compare Quinn to Bruce) was not game planned for his whole career?

 

I don't want to hear and don't believe for one second that Quinn's ineffectiveness against Florida State had to do with a game plan.

 

It's a copout. If negating a player was simply a matter of game planning for him, no one would ever have consecutive multi-sack seasons.

 

Great players get their sacks and make their imprint on a game regardless of game plan.

 

As for comparing notes on video together…why would I do that if I didn't think you had the ability to do that objectively?

 

Quinn had a bad game against Florida State. You can qualify it all you want but unless Quinn was an excuse maker, I bet he'd tell you the same thing.

[John from Riverside]

Exactly how does Quinn look bad on that Ponder video????...LOL

 

This was my impression...screen pass, screen pass, double team, roll right, hold, screen pass, double team, screen pass, triple team (6:05 mark), roll right, screen pass. I didn't mark it, but the second time they let Ponder throw the ball over 10 yards, the OT literally had Quinn in a choke hold. Ponder would have been one with the turf if he wasn't held on that play. That Ponder video shows me that FSU was keenly aware of Quinn's ability to blow up a play and did a great job in not allowing him to be a factor. Wow, it amazes me how two people can see entirely different events. It's no wonder there's so much arguing after a Bills game.

 

What is the old saying of "ifs and buts"?

 

STOP MAKING EXCUSES FOR HIM he is a good player who didn't dominate every game for christ sake god do you look bad doing this

[NewEra]

Exactly how does Quinn look bad on that Ponder video????...LOL

 

This was my impression...screen pass, screen pass, double team, roll right, hold, screen pass, double team, screen pass, triple team (6:05 mark), roll right, screen pass. I didn't mark it, but the second time they let Ponder throw the ball over 10 yards, the OT literally had Quinn in a choke hold. Ponder would have been one with the turf if he wasn't held on that play. That Ponder video shows me that FSU was keenly aware of Quinn's ability to blow up a play and did a great job in not allowing him to be a factor. Wow, it amazes me how two people can see entirely different events. It's no wonder there's so much arguing after a Bills game.

I love when you LOL after you put words in my mouth. Did I say he looked "bad"? Didn't think so. I said he was "ineffective". And he WAS. It amazes me how one person can read one thing, when another thing was said. It's no wonder there's so much arguing after a stupid post.

 

Funny how you rip apart miller for his play vs Nebraska (over and over and over and over), when he made big plays to help them beat a top 10 team. Sure, he was ineffective in some of the plays, but so was Quinn in the ponder video. But you still defend him. He assisted on 1 tackle the entire game. Had 1 hurry. Miller had 2 sacks on Nebraskas final drive, a drive that could have won the game for them.

[NewEra]

I gave you the very real impression of what FSU did to make sure that Quinn was not a factor. Are you disputing that there were not a ton of screen passes? A few double teams? One triple team? Rolls outs only to the right away from Quinn? C'mon yourself. He wasn't a factor in that FSU's game plan ensured that he wouldn't be a factor...LOL

 

Go ahead and pick a Miller video and we'll see how objective I can be with it. Seriously, select any one that you wish to pick.

 

Keep digging your hole guy. You have no idea how clueless and one sided you look in this entire miller-Quinn debate. Yes, I like miller more than Quinn, but I'm able to look at the other side of the argument rationally and agree with solid points. I'm not sure you've brought up any good points. You constantly defend the undefendable. He was ineffective vs Fsu, and you bring up reason why he was ineffective. He was double teamed and triple teamed once; you've never seen a good player beat a double team? They ran rollouts and screens to his side; you've never seen a DE defend a rollout or a screen? You dont think teams ever double teamed miller or ran screens to his side, or ran right at him with 2 people blocking him? You blast miller then defend Quinn for the same things. You've been doing this for weeks. Just say you think miller is too small and be done with it. I can understand that you feel that way and have no complaints. Sure, I disagree and think he will overcome this by adding weight. But I understand why you feel the way you do. But to defend Quinns play in the Fsu game is just plain stupid. LOL. I saw the Nebraska vs A&M video and agreed, he didn't look good vs the run. Because he didn't. I have eyes, I can see. But when it comes to Quinn vs Fsu, you say he didn't play well due to Gameplanning. Talk about gameplanning vs Quinn, while he played alongside Austin and Carter, while miller played with who? John McCargo looked like a star playing next to Mario Williams and Manny Lawson. He turned out awesome. You don't think miller was game planned against as the ONLY great player on A&M? LOL. Great players get gameplanned against. Pick another excuse please and stop making yourself look so foolish.

 

I gave you the very real impression of what FSU did to make sure that Quinn was not a factor. Are you disputing that there were not a ton of screen passes? A few double teams? One triple team? Rolls outs only to the right away from Quinn? C'mon yourself. He wasn't a factor in that FSU's game plan ensured that he wouldn't be a factor...LOL

 

Go ahead and pick a Miller video and we'll see how objective I can be with it. Seriously, select any one that you wish to pick.

 

Keep digging your hole guy. You have no idea how clueless and one sided you look in this entire miller-Quinn debate. Yes, I like miller more than Quinn, but I'm able to look at the other side of the argument rationally and agree with solid points. I'm not sure you've brought up any good points. You constantly defend the undefendable. He was ineffective vs Fsu, and you bring up reason why he was ineffective. He was double teamed and triple teamed once; you've never seen a good player beat a double team? They ran rollouts and screens to his side; you've never seen a DE defend a rollout or a screen? You dont think teams ever double teamed miller or ran screens to his side, or ran right at him with 2 people blocking him? You blast miller then defend Quinn for the same things. You've been doing this for weeks. Just say you think miller is too small and be done with it. I can understand that you feel that way and have no complaints. Sure, I disagree and think he will overcome this by adding weight. But I understand why you feel the way you do. But to defend Quinns play in the Fsu game is just plain stupid. LOL. I saw the Nebraska vs A&M video and agreed, he didn't look good vs the run. Because he didn't. I have eyes, I can see. But when it comes to Quinn vs Fsu, you say he didn't play well due to Gameplanning. Talk about gameplanning vs Quinn, while he played alongside Austin and Carter, while miller played with who? John McCargo looked like a star playing next to Mario Williams and Manny Lawson. He turned out awesome. You don't think miller was game planned against as the ONLY great player on A&M? LOL. Great players get gameplanned against. Pick another excuse please and stop making yourself look so foolish.

[1billsfan]

Actually, I gave you the very real impression of what FSU did to make sure that Quinn was not a factor (it's called impartiality):

 

Billsfan, Von Miller led the nation in sacks in 2009. By many experts testimony, he would have led the nation in sacks this year except that he was hobbled by a high ankle sprain at the beginning of the season. I believe he got all 11 of his sacks in the last 9 weeks.

 

Because he led the nation in sacks two years ago, teams were game planning for him all season long. Just like teams game plan for DeMarcus Ware, James Harrison, Dwight Freeney, etc. Just like they did for Adrian Clayborne and other college stars.

 

In other words, if you're a good pass rusher, you will be game planned for.

 

Do you think Bruce Smith (people like to compare Quinn to Bruce) was not game planned for his whole career?

 

I don't want to hear and don't believe for one second that Quinn's ineffectiveness against Florida State had to do with a game plan.

 

It's a copout. If negating a player was simply a matter of game planning for him, no one would ever have consecutive multi-sack seasons.

 

Great players get their sacks and make their imprint on a game regardless of game plan.

 

As for comparing notes on video together…why would I do that if I didn't think you had the ability to do that objectively?

 

Quinn had a bad game against Florida State. You can qualify it all you want but unless Quinn was an excuse maker, I bet he'd tell you the same thing.

 

Now that's a copout! I understand why you balked though, since no such video exists showing Miller as having the physicalness which would translate to him being worthy of a #3 overall NFL OLB pick.

 

Quinn had neither a good nor a bad FSU game. You even admitted that they game planned it that way. FSU did screen them to death. Quinn's good but sorry he's not 10 feet tall so as to swat away those screen passes. BTW, that kind of game plan would never work in the NFL. We ARE talking about what they'll do in the NFL after all, not in college where you have these wacky catch and chuck college QB friendly systems. If the Bills are in 3rd and long, I want a monster like Quinn in there, not a glorified strong safety who simply does not posses enough size or power to disengage blockers on a regular enough basis.

 

C'mon man, show me the video!