Kiper Mock v4.0

[Turbosrrgood]

Actually Turbo, I'm just trying to keep your statement accurate so that you don't look foolish (too late). And no, you don't know anything about me. If I come across something that's factually incorrect, sometimes I let the person know of it so that they don't continue down a fals line of logic. Furthermore, there was absolutely zero negative connotation to my post, so I'm not sure why you felt it necessary to get snippy in your response to me. Didn't mean for that to upset you. By the way, you are wrong about Dumervil. He started at OLB for Denver in 2009, and is listed there if you look at the NFL sack stats:

 

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=true&conference=null&statisticCategory=SACKS&season=2009&seasonType=REG&experience=null&tabSeq=0&qualified=true&Submit=Go

 

So no, the point you were making isn't valid (at least in regard to Dumervil), hence I "corrected" you.

 

Again, sorry if that upsets you.

 

Again, if you actually would read the whole posts instead of only seeing what you want, you would realize that I acknowledged he played OLB. I said that he has played, and is still listed as a DE (both also true). I know how upset you get when people don't agree with you...sorry to ruin your day...I have to say I got a good chuckle out of your response though, lol. Kind of reminds me of talking football with a little kid.

 

Also, yes in your article they list his sacks as an OLB...but he switched back in forth. I actually watched most of Denver's games, and many of his sacks came as a DE.

 

"With the Josh McDaniels coaching regime entering the 2009 season, defensive coordinator Mike Nolan moved Dumervil around as an outside linebacker in his 3-4 defensive scheme, but keeping him as a defensive end on 4-3 passing down situations.[4] Dumervil led the league in sacks with 17."

Edited April 8, 2011 by Turbosrrgood

[thebandit27]

DUDE! Looking at a picture should tell you what your eyes see

 

Not that you will answer but I KNOW you see what I see. It's too obvious for anyone to miss. You see a wiry guy not a thick guy. Is this the ultimate factor that will determine his NFL potential specifically as it relates to stopping the run? No. Is it an obstacle that he would need to overcome? Yes, just like Jason Taylor if that is a more favorable comparison to you.

 

It's great that you see a pass rusher on tape. Seems your eyes work pretty good now. I wonder how this pass rusher will help stop our defense from giving up 8 200+ yard rushing games, giving up 4.8 yds/carry and allowing opposing teams to run the ball against us 35.7 times a game???

 

If we had your pass rushing QB sack artist last year he would have sat on the sidelines watching our guys get steamrolled in the run game asking himself why his pass rush skills aren't needed.

 

 

If only everyone were honest. (Yes this covers lies of omission.)

 

My eyes tell me that I see a guy in a suit. Sorry, I'm not going to judge Von Miller's NFL potential based on the way his neck looks in a suit photo (when you read that, does it make sense to you?).

 

Speaking of lies of omission, why leave out this comment from my earlier post?

 

As I said in another thread, it would be more about helping out our 27th ranked pass rush and a pass defense that ranked 28th in the league in opposing team's QB rating. We also ranked 26th in TD passes allowed, 29th in %age of completions for 1st downs, and 30th in %age of 3rd down conversions allowed. I know the run defense is putrid, but it's not as though our pass rush doesn't need the help.

 

I understand that the run defense we awful, but the team still faced 479 pass attempts in 2010 (29.6 att/game). By that math, your run stuffer would be on the field for approximately 6 more plays than Miller (but that's neglecting issues like: is the bigger guy's conditioning is as good as an NFL linebackers? does either play more running/passing downs than the other? etc.).

 

My point here is this: yes, we suck against the run, but we also suck against the pass. It would be equally prudent to draft a pass rusher as it would a run stuffer, perhaps moreso considering that the team drafted defensive linemen in rounds 2 & 3 last year. Now, I won't be disappointed if the teams lands a run defender (provided he turns out ot be a good player), but I'll be equally happy if they draft a great pass rusher.

[Ramius]

Von Miller just reminds everyone of Maybin. Even people that don't think he will be a bust like Maybin say "he is not Maybin". Fair or not the comparison is out there. Von Miller could be great. People are attacking or defending his weight at his height but we are all missing the point a little bit. Our defense needs big time help stopping the run. Von Miller is a pass rushing specialist. He might be great rushing the passer in the NFL but it doesn't address far and away our biggest need.

 

The only reason the comparison is out there is because there's a segment of mouth breathers who looked at the weight and shouted "OMG! Its Aaron Maybin!" without actually doing any critical analysis.

 

Similar to looking at a picture of a guy in a suit and then claiming you can determine his weight. :lol:

[thebandit27]

Again, if you actually would read the whole posts instead of only seeing what you want, you would realize that I acknowledged he played OLB. I said that he has played, and is still listed as a DE (both also true). I know how upset you get when people don't agree with you...sorry to ruin your day...I have to say I got a good chuckle out of your response though, lol. Kind of reminds me of talking football with a little kid.

 

I can't believe that I have to explain your own comment to you. You said:

 

A 3-4 OLB needs to be built like a DE, because thats basically what they are. Willis is a 4-3 MLB. That's like saying a guy is big enough to play OT because he is bigger than the WR...one thing has nothing to do with the other. Dumerville (a DE) is far shorter and stockier, actually not one of the guys you mentioned is actually a 3-4 OLB and they are all shorter. Also, if he plays anything like Vilma...PASS.

 

You said Dumervil was a DE, and that "not one of the guys you mentioned is actually a 3-4 OLB". All I did was point out to you that that's not the case, as Dumervil last played in the NFL as an OLB in a 3-4. Then you got defensive and telling me that "Dumervil played as, and is still listed as a DE" (while also claiming that I somehow get my jollies from contradicting people).

 

The statement that you made, with which I took exception, is that Dumervil is not an OLB. Yes, as I showed you, that's where he played, and where he was most successful. That's why I said your point wasn't valid in regard to Dumervil.

 

Still with me sport? This isn't complicated.

 

by the way, tell whatever little kids you typically talk football with that I appreciate their willingness to accept inaccurate statements, even in the face of factual information; it's obviously a pre-requisite when talking football with you.

[NewEra]

LOL. What kind of statement is that? You aren't discussing my point. My point is that no QB elite, franchise, average joe or Trent Dilfer has won a super bowl without a top 10 performing defense. THAT is my point. I actually agree with you. QB is the single most important "position" on the team. Our statements aren't mutually exclusive.

 

 

 

Points taken but we can say that about any college prospect entering the nfl can't we? So you really haven't said anything. If you have no idea if Quinn can stop the run you should have even less of an idea about a guy 20lbs lighter with similar other measurables.

 

 

 

Don't disagree at all. All signs point to us continuing to run a 3-4/4-3 hybrid. Miller would have to play some DE and Quinn would have to play some OLB. Which guy do you think is going to be more capable of filling both of those roles?

 

 

 

I too like both of them. Our biggest problem is stopping the run. I think Quinn will better address that need. I'm not sold on anyone in the draft but that is because none of them have played NFL football. Time will tell who is good or not. You won't! OH you never claimed you could tell if either would be good or not too? What a coincidence!!

 

 

 

I have made no conclusions that I was aware of. Can you please refresh my memory? I seem to recall only comparing the two and how they would help address this teams biggest need stopping the run. A college pass rushing specialist is unlikely to address that need.

 

 

 

I am actually in camp C- I think Von Miller is too small to play OLB/DE and be as effective a run stopper as Robert Quinn who has already brought more than just pass rushing being an effective run stuffer as well.

 

 

 

Football is a big game for big people. There are some Rudy(s) that can be effective exceptions but generally small undersized guys don't enjoy the same success as their full sized counter parts.

 

Hrm, maybe I should come up with a clever name to label people who don't think size matters in an attempt to discredit their point?

I'm replying from my phone, so I can't bold face specific parts of your post.

 

-I can't even debate the QB thing with you because you completely agree with me, but twist things. Simply put, if you don't have a franchise QB, getting one is your biggest need. Twist it as you may, that's the bottom line. I don't think we have one (some may disagree), so I believe it's our biggest need. Yes, having a good defense is important as well, but our current defense CANT be fixed with one pick. A franchise QB can be. I'm not saying any of the QBs in this draft are the answer, but one may be. Not one defensive player in this draft can be the answer to us having a good defense, merely a piece to the puzzle.

 

-if we played 4-3, I wouldn't expect Miller to play DE. I'd expect him to play OLB. Yes, I'd expect Quinn to play DE. I think Miller is a little more versatile that Quinn. I think he has a chance to be effective at every LB position in any scheme due to his athleticism. I think Quinn may be a better run stopper, but I think Miller is better at keeping the outside and forcing the play inside, as well as covering the TE. I also think he's better at getting to the QB. People are always talking about the video of Von Miller struggling vs the run. I don't hear anyone talking about the video tape of Quinn stopping the run. Why? Cuz there is none. There's no tape of him from the last 16 months. There's tape of him playing well against bad teams (minus 1 game vs BC) 16 months ago. All of his production came against scrubs (minus castanzo), 1 sack I believe. He got completely shut down vs the majority of the decent school he played (decent school, not elite, cuz he played in a very weak ACC). Theres no tape of him vs Nebraska, cuz he never played nebraska. Nebraska does that vs the majority of the guys they face. The gist of my problem with people hating on miller while woooooooing over Quinn is the plain fact that he is the epitome of a one year wonder, and his greatness was only on display vs scrub teams and BC one time. I like Quinn, but I can't see how people can love him so much and hate miller so much. Their body of work is laughable when compared. The only thing that Quinn has on him is Weight. That's all. But I guess the NFL is a big persons game. Because 6'3 240 isn't big, right.

 

-to refresh your memory, I wasn't replying to you. Read a little closer next time instead of jumping to conclusions.

 

-I've never said any college player was definitely going to be good or bad on this board. I did that in my teens.

Edited April 8, 2011 by NewEra

[1billsfan]

My eyes tell me that I see a guy in a suit. Sorry, I'm not going to judge Von Miller's NFL potential based on the way his neck looks in a suit photo (when you read that, does it make sense to you?).

 

Speaking of lies of omission, why leave out this comment from my earlier post?

 

As I said in another thread, it would be more about helping out our 27th ranked pass rush and a pass defense that ranked 28th in the league in opposing team's QB rating. We also ranked 26th in TD passes allowed, 29th in %age of completions for 1st downs, and 30th in %age of 3rd down conversions allowed. I know the run defense is putrid, but it's not as though our pass rush doesn't need the help.

 

I understand that the run defense we awful, but the team still faced 479 pass attempts in 2010 (29.6 att/game). By that math, your run stuffer would be on the field for approximately 6 more plays than Miller (but that's neglecting issues like: is the bigger guy's conditioning is as good as an NFL linebackers? does either play more running/passing downs than the other? etc.).

 

My point here is this: yes, we suck against the run, but we also suck against the pass. It would be equally prudent to draft a pass rusher as it would a run stuffer, perhaps moreso considering that the team drafted defensive linemen in rounds 2 & 3 last year. Now, I won't be disappointed if the teams lands a run defender (provided he turns out ot be a good player), but I'll be equally happy if they draft a great pass rusher.

 

At #3 you should be drafting a guy that has the size, speed and athleticism to handle BOTH the run and pass. This Quinn/Miller back and forth amazes me. For years we've read fans' at TSW cries of desperation about how little our players are compared to the rest of the league. How they get pushed around, game after game after game after game.

 

So since the diminutive Von Miller has risen up the draft boards (they are wrong), everybody seems to have lost all their memories and senses regarding our poor little boys in blue.

 

If the Bills do in fact draft Miller, I don't want to see even one post regarding the small size of our defense. With the exception of those here who were touting they take an NFL sized person with the first pick.

[NewEra]

I can't believe that I have to explain your own comment to you. You said:

 

A 3-4 OLB needs to be built like a DE, because thats basically what they are. Willis is a 4-3 MLB. That's like saying a guy is big enough to play OT because he is bigger than the WR...one thing has nothing to do with the other. Dumerville (a DE) is far shorter and stockier, actually not one of the guys you mentioned is actually a 3-4 OLB and they are all shorter. Also, if he plays anything like Vilma...PASS.

 

You said Dumervil was a DE, and that "not one of the guys you mentioned is actually a 3-4 OLB". All I did was point out to you that that's not the case, as Dumervil last played in the NFL as an OLB in a 3-4. Then you got defensive and telling me that "Dumervil played as, and is still listed as a DE" (while also claiming that I somehow get my jollies from contradicting people).

 

The statement that you made, with which I took exception, is that Dumervil is not an OLB. Yes, as I showed you, that's where he played, and where he was most successful. That's why I said your point wasn't valid in regard to Dumervil.

 

Still with me sport? This isn't complicated.

 

by the way, tell whatever little kids you typically talk football with that I appreciate their willingness to accept inaccurate statements, even in the face of factual information; it's obviously a pre-requisite when talking football with you.

+1

 

When reading his previous reply I was thinking the same exact thing.

 

At #3 you should be drafting a guy that has the size, speed and athleticism to handle BOTH the run and pass. This Quinn/Miller back and forth amazes me. For years we've read fans' at TSW cries of desperation about how little our players are compared to the rest of the league. How they get pushed around, game after game after game after game.

 

So since the diminutive Von Miller has risen up the draft boards (they are wrong), everybody seems to have lost all their memories and senses regarding our poor little boys in blue.

 

If the Bills do in fact draft Miller, I don't want to see even one post regarding the small size of our defense. With the exception of those here who were touting they take an NFL sized person with the first pick.

An olb drafted at #3 should also be able to cover a TE. Not sure if you watched any games last year, but not being able to cover a TE absolutely killed us last year. Who do you think, or should I say, who do you guarantee the Pats and Steelers would think can cover a TE better? Or does covering a TE not matter. End sarcasm.

 

Funny how you haven't replied to one of my posts btw.

[John from Riverside]

DUDE! Looking at a picture should tell you what your eyes see

 

Not that you will answer but I KNOW you see what I see. It's too obvious for anyone to miss. You see a wiry guy not a thick guy. Is this the ultimate factor that will determine his NFL potential specifically as it relates to stopping the run? No. Is it an obstacle that he would need to overcome? Yes, just like Jason Taylor if that is a more favorable comparison to you.

 

It's great that you see a pass rusher on tape. Seems your eyes work pretty good now. I wonder how this pass rusher will help stop our defense from giving up 8 200+ yard rushing games, giving up 4.8 yds/carry and allowing opposing teams to run the ball against us 35.7 times a game???

 

If we had your pass rushing QB sack artist last year he would have sat on the sidelines watching our guys get steamrolled in the run game asking himself why his pass rush skills aren't needed.

 

 

If only everyone were honest. (Yes this covers lies of omission.)

 

 

TO BE FAIR lets say Von Miller actually ends up being Jason Taylor (which by the way was what we were all hoping Maybin would end up being due to height/weight comparisons)

 

But lets just say he ends up having a Jason Taylor type career......who was never good against the run but always considered a top player in the league regardless because he was a PLAYMAKER......would that be enough for the Von Miller detractors?

 

Lets keep in mind that ONE player does not stop a team from getting run on....it takes a collective effort....lets also consider that we draft high on run stoppers like Carrington LAST year and he is gonna play a ton this year now that Stroud is gone. Lets also consider that this is a defensive heavy draft with plenty of picks left.

 

The bills ability to stop the run this year is not going to rest soley on the number 3 pick. We could draft Darius and it STILL would not and he is considered a VERY GOOD runs stopper.

[1B4IDie]

+1

 

When reading his previous reply I was thinking the same exact thing.

 

 

An olb drafted at #3 should also be able to cover a TE. Not sure if you watched any games last year, but not being able to cover a TE absolutely killed us last year. Who do you think, or should I say, who do you guarantee the Pats and Steelers would think can cover a TE better? Or does covering a TE not matter. End sarcasm.

 

Funny how you haven't replied to one of my posts btw.

Why would anyone think Von Miller can cover a TE?

He didn't in college.

It's a complete unknown. He should be able to because of his atheletism but he needs many more reps and practice before we can pretend he is a fix for the leaky TE pass coverage.

 

That's complete imagination to add this to his already fantasy filled list of strengths.

 

"Von Miller can control QBs Minds and make them throw the ball directly to him." (Not that his Stone Hands would be able to catch it though.

[bisonbrigade]

What's the infatuation with Quinn? He did'nt play last year, was suspended which means headcase, and is more of a tweener DE/OLB like Kelsey is. CAN YOU SAY BUST! Von Miller was a team captain and produced everyyear. I would take Miller anyday. Just saying.

[NewEra]

Why would anyone think Von Miller can cover a TE?

He didn't in college.

It's a complete unknown. He should be able to because of his atheletism but he needs many more reps and practice before we can pretend he is a fix for the leaky TE pass coverage.

 

That's complete imagination to add this to his already fantasy filled list of strengths.

 

"Von Miller can control QBs Minds and make them throw the ball directly to him." (Not that his Stone Hands would be able to catch it though.

Funny that you say that, considering you want to draft Quinn to play OLB and stop the run. A: he's NEVER played OLB. He's never been great vs the run. Say what you want about his run stopping ability, but you're speculating that he'll be good vs the run, due to his 260 lb frame.

 

I'm speculating that he can cover a tight end because he's faster, has better lateral quickness and explosion than just about every tight end in the league. I know it was only 1 game, but he showed he was pretty darn good in coverage in the senoir bowl. The only game he was asked to play coverage all year, from what i saw. Can he cover them? As always, only time will tell. But I'd bet that he'd be much better in coverage than Quinn would be.

[1billsfan]

 

An olb drafted at #3 should also be able to cover a TE. Not sure if you watched any games last year, but not being able to cover a TE absolutely killed us last year. Who do you think, or should I say, who do you guarantee the Pats and Steelers would think can cover a TE better? Or does covering a TE not matter. End sarcasm.

 

Funny how you haven't replied to one of my posts btw.

 

 

Whoever we take as the OLB will be rushing the passer 90% of the time, not covering a TE. That's the job for the SS, which unfortunately we still have yet to find one who can do that.

 

But first things first, we need a big and talented defensive player at that #3 spot...Quinn, Fairley, Dareus. Miller's talented, but not big, so he's off the board of a team that needs to get much bigger than they are now.

[NewEra]

Whoever we take as the OLB will be rushing the passer 90% of the time, not covering a TE. That's the job for the SS, which unfortunately we still have yet to find one who can do that.

 

But first things first, we need a big and talented defensive player at that #3 spot...Quinn, Fairley, Dareus. Miller's talented, but not big, so he's off the board of a team that needs to get much bigger than they are now.

90% of the time? I remember seeing Kelsey get beat by a TE at least 5 times on 3rd down, Poz maybe 5-8 times. Ayodele and moats a couple times as well. Maybe that will be the plan going forward, but it certainly wasn't last year. I'd hope that any 3-4 OLB we acquire would be able to cover some due to the fact that we currently have 0 lbs that can cover me. Moats and Merriman are strictly pass rushers. I know coverage isn't the primary responsibility, but it would help to have an OLB that isn't an absolute nightmare when in coverage. Just saying, it's another plus for miller when weighing options. Whether or not he's the pick, I have no idea, but I'm pretty confidant that he's still on the bills big board.

 

What's the infatuation with Quinn? He did'nt play last year, was suspended which means headcase, and is more of a tweener DE/OLB like Kelsey is. CAN YOU SAY BUST! Von Miller was a team captain and produced everyyear. I would take Miller anyday. Just saying.

 

What a lame post. He didn't play last year being suspended for accepting benefits, just like most good college players. If you don't think that's the case, get out of your cave. He may be a tweener, but he's a much better athlete that Kelsey. I'm on board with your comments about Miller, but to say "Can you say bust" about Quinn due to him being a tweener and accepting money is off base in my book. Sure there's questions about him, but there's questions about everyone.

[1B4IDie]

Funny that you say that, considering you want to draft Quinn to play OLB and stop the run. A: he's NEVER played OLB. He's never been great vs the run. Say what you want about his run stopping ability, but you're speculating that he'll be good vs the run, due to his 260 lb frame.

 

I'm speculating that he can cover a tight end because he's faster, has better lateral quickness and explosion than just about every tight end in the league. I know it was only 1 game, but he showed he was pretty darn good in coverage in the senoir bowl. The only game he was asked to play coverage all year, from what i saw. Can he cover them? As always, only time will tell. But I'd bet that he'd be much better in coverage than Quinn would be.

Not a Quinn guy, if anything I'm a Cam Jordan guy.

[NewEra]

Not a Quinn guy, if anything I'm a Cam Jordan guy.

My bad then sir. There's sobmany miller haters out there it's hard to remember exactly who says what. My apologies. I like Cam Jordan too. As well as Miller, Quinn, Dareus, Fairley newton and gabbert (not because Im convinced they are great QBs, simply because I think they have a chance to be gears QBs. I think we need a great QB more than anything)

[PDaDdy]

My eyes tell me that I see a guy in a suit. Sorry, I'm not going to judge Von Miller's NFL potential based on the way his neck looks in a suit photo (when you read that, does it make sense to you?).

 

I have no idea what he looks like in a suit. Somebody keeps trying to post a pic of him with some WR but I haven't seen it. I am talking about the video I have seen of him.

[PDaDdy]

The only reason the comparison is out there is because there's a segment of mouth breathers who looked at the weight and shouted "OMG! Its Aaron Maybin!" without actually doing any critical analysis.

 

Similar to looking at a picture of a guy in a suit and then claiming you can determine his weight. :lol:

 

There are more similarities than that but certain that is likely the biggest most obvious comparison that people made. You can't blame people too much when Buffalo so recently acquired a guy that on the surface looks VERY similar. As I said unfair or not it's not a big mystery.

 

Miller might end up being a good NFL player. He might be a great pass rusher. He might even turn out to be a decent run defender. If you do the critical analysis as you say you will have seen 4 years of tape on Miller and you DON'T see a run defender. You see a good college pass rusher. His lack of size is a factor in translating to the NFL plain and simple. Can he overcome it? Sure, potentially.

 

Again that all being said. We need to stop the run first and foremost. Our pass defense needs help too. It's in bad shape. I would prefer a guy that has the build and speed that could help us in both areas. We don't need specialists. We need solid every down guys on both sides of the ball.

 

TO BE FAIR lets say Von Miller actually ends up being Jason Taylor (which by the way was what we were all hoping Maybin would end up being due to height/weight comparisons)

 

But lets just say he ends up having a Jason Taylor type career......who was never good against the run but always considered a top player in the league regardless because he was a PLAYMAKER......would that be enough for the Von Miller detractors?

 

Lets keep in mind that ONE player does not stop a team from getting run on....it takes a collective effort....lets also consider that we draft high on run stoppers like Carrington LAST year and he is gonna play a ton this year now that Stroud is gone. Lets also consider that this is a defensive heavy draft with plenty of picks left.

 

The bills ability to stop the run this year is not going to rest soley on the number 3 pick. We could draft Darius and it STILL would not and he is considered a VERY GOOD runs stopper.

 

I agree with many of those points. Jason Taylor was a great player. I don't know that Miller is anymore likely to be like Taylor than he is to be like Maybin. He will be like Miller whatever that ends up being. I think or at least hope that we do get a lot more production out of our draft picks from last year. I just don't understand how a team so bad can't draft players that can replace the crap we have and start.

 

One player does not a defense make but liabilities are liabilities. If as I expect Miller might not be a guy that can hold up against the run we would need to take him out of our 4-3 looks. He is DEFINITELY too small for a 4-3 DE even if you consider him big enough for a 3-4 OLB. Regardless of his size he has not shown in 4 years a talent for stopping the run or holding the edge.

 

What's the infatuation with Quinn? He did'nt play last year, was suspended which means headcase, and is more of a tweener DE/OLB like Kelsey is. CAN YOU SAY BUST! Von Miller was a team captain and produced everyyear. I would take Miller anyday. Just saying.

 

LOL. Tweener! If Quinn is a tweener at 265 lbs what does that make Miller at 245????

Edited April 9, 2011 by PDaDdy

[NewEra]

There are more similarities than that but certain that is likely the biggest most obvious comparison that people made. You can't blame people too much when Buffalo so recently acquired a guy that on the surface looks VERY similar. As I said unfair or not it's not a big mystery.

 

Miller might end up being a good NFL player. He might be a great pass rusher. He might even turn out to be a decent run defender. If you do the critical analysis as you say you will have seen 4 years of tape on Miller and you DON'T see a run defender. You see a good college pass rusher. His lack of size is a factor in translating to the NFL plain and simple. Can he overcome it? Sure, potentially.

 

Again that all being said. We need to stop the run first and foremost. Our pass defense needs help too. It's in bad shape. I would prefer a guy that has the build and speed that could help us in both areas. We don't need specialists. We need solid every down guys on both sides of the ball.

 

 

 

I agree with many of those points. Jason Taylor was a great player. I don't know that Miller is anymore likely to be like Taylor than he is to be like Maybin. He will be like Miller whatever that ends up being. I think or at least hope that we do get a lot more production out of our draft picks from last year. I just don't understand how a team so bad can't draft players that can replace the crap we have and start.

 

One player does not a defense make but liabilities are liabilities. If as I expect Miller might not be a guy that can hold up against the run we would need to take him out of our 4-3 looks. He is DEFINITELY too small for a 4-3 DE even if you consider him big enough for a 3-4 OLB. Regardless of his size he has not shown in 4 years a talent for stopping the run or holding the edge.

 

 

 

LOL. Tweener! If Quinn is a tweener at 265 lbs what does that make Miller at 245????

It's not my post you're referring too, but I would think we was saying Quinn is a tweener because he is a 260 lb DE. If drafted by us, we would likely employ him as an OLB in the 3-4. He is too light to play 3-4 DE, but has good shot to play 4-3 DE. Miller wouldn't be used as a DE at all IMO. He'd play LB in the 3-4 and the 4-3. I don't think tweener is necessarily a negative term in relation to Quinn. I think it refers to ones ability to play one position and maybe another as well. He definitely big enough to play OLB, but not necessarily DE. I think he'll turn out fine, but he's going to be switching positions if he joins the bills, from DE to OLB.

[DrDawkinstein]

Kelsay is not a tweener.

[PDaDdy]

It's not my post you're referring too, but I would think we was saying Quinn is a tweener because he is a 260 lb DE. If drafted by us, we would likely employ him as an OLB in the 3-4. He is too light to play 3-4 DE, but has good shot to play 4-3 DE. Miller wouldn't be used as a DE at all IMO. He'd play LB in the 3-4 and the 4-3. I don't think tweener is necessarily a negative term in relation to Quinn. I think it refers to ones ability to play one position and maybe another as well. He definitely big enough to play OLB, but not necessarily DE. I think he'll turn out fine, but he's going to be switching positions if he joins the bills, from DE to OLB.

 

Interesting. Your plan would require someone other than Miller to play OLB and DE or it would require a substitution to bring an actual DE on the field. Quinn, at 265 not 260, IS a bit light at that position but could certainly be capable enough. This has sort of been part of my point about Miller being too small to fill the role I envisioned.

 

I'm hoping we draft a guy that can play OLB and DE and we could run 3-4 and 4-3 schemes with the same personnel.