Webster Guy Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 I have no idea what the most important stats are, but I would think the 10 and 20 yard splits, especially the 10 which measure how fast your first step or two are would be the most important for D linemen. Second I would rate ability to drive/lower back n hips strength, which I heard they don't even do at the combine anymore. (sled push, 325 lbs, how far and fast can you move it) Players that rise or fall at the combine has always been a mystery to me unless they're injury assessments, guys without much playing time in college, or interviews for character/team player evaluations etc. After that, how can you not judge dudes by actual game film? My prediction: Bills are taking Dareus or Fairley in what will prove to be the first draft in a decade where they actually took who we thought they were going to take in the first round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 Cameron Jordan is a sure thing at a position of need. He will be a top 10 pick. I will bet any amount of money on that. I keep seeing him at #17 to the Pats. That would be horrible For a franchise that needs a sure thing why not take the sure thing. Its not a reach when you draft a sure thing. I think come April the draft will work out. 1. Cam Newton 2. Marcell Dareus 3. Cam Jordan. This is what a Top 5 pick looks like: If there was ever a draft to try to trade down A LITTLE BIT...not a lot.....and try to pick up an additional high 2nd rounder this would be the draft to do it.....there are so many good defensive players in this draft it just make sense to do that......Fairley could fall to us.....Quinn......Camron? We will be so thankful if we can pull that off when some quality defensive player falls into the high second or some guy like Carimi and then we still have a 2nd rounder to take a QB to hand the clip board to....... http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-combine/09000d5d81e8001e/Cameron-Jordan-talks-to-press Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoner7 Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 I have no idea how reliable these guys are but here it is: http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/index.php?app=forums&module=post§ion=post&do=new_post&f=1 Hopefully NeverGiveUp can get us some more insight? Last report was that they were leaning toward Von Miller. I like the idea of Jordan, and I have heard he is really good (I didn’t see any Cal games this year myself). I would not be upset with him at 3 at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 Gee, another player the Bills "really like." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1B4IDie Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 (edited) The Link goes back to TwoBillsDrive.com I think this is the link you meant to post: http://www.buffalosportsdaily.com/source-bills-remain-very-high-on-cameron-jordan/ Based on Bills draft history of taking the guy, that everyone calls a "reach" I fully expect Cam Jordan to be the pick. If it happens, I also fully expect this is to be the first time in a long time that the Bills get it right. Cam Jordan is not going to be a sack master, but he will be a pocket collapser with a High Motor. Paired with Kyle Williams you have 2 guys like that on the D-Line that require atleast 3 Offensive lineman's attention and probably a TE to help as well. It will allow the Moats, Poz and the LBs we draft in the 2nd and 3rd round to make plays. Yes Marcell Dareaus, and Fairely maybe better pure talent but we're splitting hairs here in the Top10. Neither Dareaus or Fairely have it upstairs in the mental department like Cameron Jordan. Cam Jordan is entering the draft after completing is Senior year, was a team captain at Cal, and has NFl bloodlines. He is a Buddy Nix kinda guy if there ever were one in my opinion. Get to know this possible future Buffalo Bill before you push the "reach" button. Think of this way. What are the risks associated with Bowers, Quinn, Fairely & Dareaus? What are the risks associated with Cameron Jordan? For a team that needs a sure thing, Cameron Jordan looks to me as the closest you can get to a sure thing, and that is never a "reach." I put this in the other thread about Cam Jordan to help people get familiar with this guy: Jake Locker, Barkley, Foles, and Andrew Luck all make guest appearances in this one: Wouldn't you love hearing how "he loved hitting Brady and hearing the wind come out of his chest" after the first Bills win over the Pats in almost a decade. http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-combine/09000d5d81e8001e/Cameron-Jordan-talks-to-press He is a top 10 player no doubt. Yes it will be a "reach" but he just seems like a Buddy Nix kind of guy to me. This guy can be the face of the franchise. Edited March 22, 2011 by Why So Serious? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 The Link goes back to TwoBillsDrive.com I think this is the link you meant to post: http://www.buffalosportsdaily.com/source-bills-remain-very-high-on-cameron-jordan/ Based on Bills draft history of taking the guy, that everyone calls a "reach" I fully expect Cam Jordan to be the pick. If it happens, I also fully expect this is to be the first time in a long time that the Bills get it right. Cam Jordan is not going to be a sack master, but he will be a pocket collapser with a High Motor. Paired with Kyle Williams you have 2 guys like that on the D-Line that require atleast 3 Offensive lineman's attention and probably a TE to help as well. It will allow the Moats, Poz and the LBs we draft in the 2nd and 3rd round to make plays. Yes Marcell Dareaus, and Fairely maybe better pure talent but we're splitting hairs here in the Top10. Neither Dareaus or Fairely have it upstairs in the mental department like Cameron Jordan. Cam Jordan is entering the draft after completing is Senior year, was a team captain at Cal, and has NFl bloodlines. He is a Buddy Nix kinda guy if there ever were one in my opinion. Get to know this possible future Buffalo Bill before you push the "reach" button. Think of this way. What are the risks associated with Bowers, Quinn, Fairely & Dareaus? What are the risks associated with Cameron Jordan? For a team that needs a sure thing, Cameron Jordan looks to me as the closest you can get to a sure thing, and that is never a "reach." I put this in the other thread about Cam Jordan to help people get familiar with this guy: NICE! I won't really pretend to know jack about how any of these guys will translate from college to pro ball, but I have liked what I have seen of this kid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgrid Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 more speculation on Jordan from Patrick Moran... Source: Bills Remain Very High On Cameron Jordan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 A good scenario would be someone trading up to get a chance at one of the QB's......and we get Jordan and a 2nd. Which we turn into a QB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1B4IDie Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 A good scenario would be someone trading up to get a chance at one of the QB's......and we get Jordan and a 2nd. Which we turn into a QB It would have to be a top 10 to get Jordan. No matter many mocks have him in the teens, dude will be a top10 pick, you take that two the bank. I'm in favor of almost any tradedown where we get Top 15, an additional second and it would probably have to be 2 more mid round picks either in 2011 or 2012, JJ Watt should be there from 10-15. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 Based on Bills draft history of taking the guy, that everyone calls a "reach" I fully expect Cam Jordan to be the pick. If it happens, I also fully expect this is to be the first time in a long time that the Bills get it right. Cam Jordan is not going to be a sack master, but he will be a pocket collapser with a High Motor. Paired with Kyle Williams you have 2 guys like that on the D-Line that require atleast 3 Offensive lineman's attention and probably a TE to help as well. By no means do I claim to have any special insight into Cam Jordan. But if you feel he's not going to become a "sack master" but merely a "pocket collapser," then how do you justify taking him third overall? I feel the third overall pick should be an elite difference-maker--the kind of guy who earns lots of frequent flyer miles because of his trips to the Pro Bowl. If Cam Jordan can give us that, if he's more of a sure thing than any of the other front-7 defensive players available, and if there isn't some player at some other position you like more, maybe it would make sense to pull the trigger. But I don't see using the third overall pick on him unless he's going to be one of the five or seven best RDEs in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1B4IDie Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 (edited) By no means do I claim to have any special insight into Cam Jordan. But if you feel he's not going to become a "sack master" but merely a "pocket collapser," then how do you justify taking him third overall? I feel the third overall pick should be an elite difference-maker--the kind of guy who earns lots of frequent flyer miles because of his trips to the Pro Bowl. If Cam Jordan can give us that, if he's more of a sure thing than any of the other front-7 defensive players available, and if there isn't some player at some other position you like more, maybe it would make sense to pull the trigger. But I don't see using the third overall pick on him unless he's going to be one of the five or seven best RDEs in the league. 3-4 DEs don't get alot of sacks. They go to the pro bowl when they collapse pockets and require the offensive line to use atleast two players to block them, like our current Pro Bowler at NT. Fairely, or Dareus won't be sack masters in the NFL but will be top 5 picks too. "Merely a pocket collapser" like the NFL is filled with unblockable defenders that require offenses to adjust and allow the rest of the defense to get 1 on 1s or left unblocked. A pocket collapser is an elite player that is one of the hardest players to find that's why they generally go in the top 10, and WRs, CBs and LBs don't generally go that high. Edited March 26, 2011 by Why So Serious? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4BillsintheBurgh Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 By no means do I claim to have any special insight into Cam Jordan. But if you feel he's not going to become a "sack master" but merely a "pocket collapser," then how do you justify taking him third overall? I feel the third overall pick should be an elite difference-maker--the kind of guy who earns lots of frequent flyer miles because of his trips to the Pro Bowl. If Cam Jordan can give us that, if he's more of a sure thing than any of the other front-7 defensive players available, and if there isn't some player at some other position you like more, maybe it would make sense to pull the trigger. But I don't see using the third overall pick on him unless he's going to be one of the five or seven best RDEs in the league. 5 technique ends like Jordan are not taken high historically, I think I remember hearing something that Tyson Jackson was the first one taken in the top ten in the last 10 years or so. I don't think the positional value is there in the 3-4, it would be sort of like picking a rb that high. Not that Jordan wouldn't work out, I just think the perception is the dropoff from #1 to #10 3-4 DE is not as great as the dropoff from #1 to #10 qb, lt, wr, cb, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1B4IDie Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 (edited) 5 technique ends like Jordan are not taken high historically, I think I remember hearing something that Tyson Jackson was the first one taken in the top ten in the last 10 years or so. I don't think the positional value is there in the 3-4, it would be sort of like picking a rb that high. Not that Jordan wouldn't work out, I just think the perception is the dropoff from #1 to #10 3-4 DE is not as great as the dropoff from #1 to #10 qb, lt, wr, cb, etc. Agreed but Cam Jordan is a 3 down lineman that can be put in in the inside in the Nickel, and has played in a 3-4 and 4-3, and a hybrid system in college and been productive and a disruptive force. I don't know if you can pigeon hole him as a 5 technique. I'd agree with the Drop off statement as well. The 10th ranked 3-4 DE can probably make a roster and contribute. The 10th ranked QB might not make a roster or just be a practice squad QB. RB and CB may be a different story and I think the 10th ranked LT is called a RT. You have categories of RB & CB, In my opinion there are ones that can walk in and start and ones that need to be coached up to contribute. The difference between the 5th ranked RB & CB and 15th ranked RB & CB is probably negligible. In my opinion its the top of the class that can contribute right away where there is probably the biggest difference. Edited March 26, 2011 by Why So Serious? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeastMode54 Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 Moran is saying that another Bills source has said that Jordan has anything you'd want in a franchise NFL player except the name. I hope if this happens it comes with a trade down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I hate the Bills ! Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 I like Cam Jordan myself and I think we could trade down from 3-5 with Arizona stockpile a extra 2nd round pick and then select Jordan or even Patrick Peterson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABills08 Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 W/o looking at any of the other posts on this thread....the answer is a resounding YES. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 Honestly there wasn't much separation all the guys who actually ran the shuttle (except for Clayborne and Watt who kicked everyone else's ass). His vertical leap was a lot better than Dareus's (who only jumped 27 inches). So the question becomes (and I like Cameron Jordon to) why not just take JJ Watt Honestly this is why unless you have Von Miller pegged at 3 (which the bills may very well have) why not trade down a bit and take either Cam Jordon or JJ Watt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 Listen, I'm not knocking Jordan as a player and I like Moran's stuff. I don't doubt that he could be considered a top 10 prospect by certain teams, but drafting with the 3rd pick is a big responsibility. I think Mayock has him at 11, mainly bc of his scheme versatility. But, lets not fool ourselves. He's a poor man's Marcel Dareus. I just can't figure out how you take him at 3. Maybe the Bills can trade down and take him, but as we all know, thats way easier said than done. I think taking him inside the top 5 would be a huge reach. The top rated 3-4 DE who can stop the run and rush the passer/collapse the pocket at #3 Overall, is way less of a reach than picking an undersized, one dimensional OLB. IMO. Not even considering his years of production, his bloodline, and his top-notch upbringing/character. I agree that Dareus should be our first choice. But if he is already gone, wouldnt the best pick available be a trench player that can play both facets of the game (pass and run)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 Who says he is the top rated 3-4 DE? I think that is very debatable. Very few people reputable talent evaluators have him as a top 5 talent. Jordan is good, no doubt about it. But, how can you take him ahead of Miller, Quinn, Fairley or Bowers? I mean, come on. If the Bills were sitting at 12 like usual, I'd be all for it. But, they aren't. And if they aren't going QB (an idea that I'm warming too), they need to take a guy with a higher upside than Jordan. IMO, Miller, Fairley, Quinn and even Bowers are more talented. If Bowers didn't have those injury concerns, would we even be having this conversation? The Jordan love is totally based around the fact that he can play end in a 3-4. That's really, in my opinion, overemphasizing how important scheme is to the Bills. They play a hybrid. They'll find a role for any of these defenders we keep talking about. From that list, easy: Miller - undersized, one dimensional player who wont help with our Run Defense Quinn - huge risk as he only has 1 productive season from 2 years ago, hasnt seen the field in over a year. Bowers - injured, and never liked him anyways. He's all the way out of the top 10 rankings from a number of analysts. Fairley is the only player Id pick from that list over Jordan, if it were up to me. Nix has stated numerous times that while they are going to run a hybrid this year, they are drafting to build a 3-4 defense. He said you "must" pick a scheme and draft for it and that the Bills are picking the 3-4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 (edited) I know you are down on Miller, and I'm not trying to pick a fight here, but outside of amateur talent evaluators on message boards, who backs up that opinion on Miller? I'm not saying that the Mike Mayocks of the world are always right. I'm well aware of the Curry/Maybin issues that come with talking about linebackers as high as 3. Personally, I'd take Dareus over Miller and I wouldn't be upset with Fairley over him either (I just don't know where he fits on the Bills). But Cameron Jordan? I mean, just how much better is Jordan than Heyward? I'm serious, that isn't meant to be sarcastic. They look the same on paper and overall, they have the same strengths. Bc Heyward might be there for us in the 2nd. So why take Jordan at 3? I understand Im in the vast minority of not being completely in love with Miller. And Im ok with that. It's all opinions for now. And Ive also said that Miller may very well go on to have a good/great career, it's just that there are other players available that kill more birds with one stone. We agree that Dareus and Fairley would be better picks for this team than Miller. I kind of use the same logic behind those thoughts to apply it to Jordan. Sure, Heyward MAY be there in the 2nd. But he also might not. And all it takes is a run to start on DL, and then by the time we get to #34, we'll be picking out of a lesser group. Trench players can and do effect EVERY play they are on the field for. And there are a handful of very good DLs available in the draft. Personally, I take one of those DLs first since we'll just about have our choice of the group, and then once we have the Front Line addressed, we can pick LBs later in the draft. I cant specifically answer which player will be better in the NFL, because as you are aware, we wont know for another 2 years or so. But there is a LOT to like about Jordan. It's just my researched and planned out opinion on how I would do it. Edited April 25, 2011 by DrDankenstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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