When an Ambulance causes an accident...

[gmac17]

I saw a pretty bad accident the other day in NYC that was caused by an ambulance with lights on running a red light, hitting a car which then careened into some poor guy on the sidewalk. The ambulance stopped for a moment, drove about 40 feet - slowed down again as if they didn't know what to do and then drove off (possibly because they saw the owner of the car jump out and it seemed like he was ok - though the guy on the sidewalk was not).

 

Just curious what the procedure in those cases is - as I'm sure they either had someone in the back they needed to get to the hospital, or another emergency they needed to get to.

[GoodBye]

I'm guessing the call they were going to was more life threatening than the one they just caused. Otherwise, they probably would have stopped. They may have called for back up (for the one they caused.) When I see my paramedic sister next, I'll ask her. Also, if the ambulance has lights/sirens on the cars need to move out of the way. Which doesn't sound like they did.

[NyQuil]

Stop and call for additional units. Getting into an accident while going hot (lights and sirens) is tricky. Usually they will do a peer review with people the same level as the driver and find out if in that situation they would have gone lights and sirens. If the majority say no the driver is screwed. Also, even when going lights and sirens, an ambulance is still supposed to stop at red lights to make sure the coast is clear before running it.

Edited February 26, 2011 by NyQuil

[Chef Jim]

That's a great question but I want to know is the driver who got hit liable for not yielding to an emergency vehicle? I usually notice that here in CA anyway emergency vehicles really make sure an intersection is clear before running the red light.

[ExiledInIllinois]

This is gonna sound silly... But can an emerg vehicle "cause" an accident (like the one you saw)? While going "hot"... Aren't all other vehicles "burdened."

 

Of course that doesn't mean that they shoudn't do what Chef said... To eliminate any mishaps.

 

Anyway... Don't major cities have that light changer thing that cops use? Just look up at the light... Usually you can see the sensor somewhere.

Edited February 26, 2011 by ExiledInIllinois

[Doc]

Yep, their duty it to call another unit. It's not like they can a) take the time to help someone else when the person in the back may be dying, and b) fit the other person in the ambulance.

 

And if the ambulance just barreled through the intersection, as per eyewitness (if they can find them) accounts, they're liable. Going hot doesn't excuse you from using some amount of caution.

Edited February 26, 2011 by Doc

[bbb]

I had a friend get killed by an ambulance running a red light at full speed.

[ExiledInIllinois]

I had a friend get killed by an ambulance running a red light at full speed.

 

WOW! Sorry to hear this... What were the detail of it and what happened in the end... Did the ambulance take appropriate action? Did your friend see them? What happened with the investigation?

[bbb]

WOW! Sorry to hear this... What were the detail of it and what happened in the end... Did the ambulance take appropriate action? Did your friend see them? What happened with the investigation?

 

It was 25 years ago, so I don't remember all the details. My friend was a passenger - right side back seat, so the ambulance hit him square, and the three other people in the car were fine........I have no idea what the ambulance did at the scene - I always assumed they were pretty wrecked and weren't about to take off anyway......I doubt the driver saw it. They were on their way to play hockey and probably talking or listening to music. They weren't drinking.......Regarding the investigation, it was in the paper quite a bit and they changed the laws I believe - basically no more speeding thru red lights. Now, you see them creep up to red lights. I remember as a kid, seeing them fly through.

[ExiledInIllinois]

It was 25 years ago, so I don't remember all the details. My friend was a passenger - right side back seat, so the ambulance hit him square, and the three other people in the car were fine........I have no idea what the ambulance did at the scene - I always assumed they were pretty wrecked and weren't about to take off anyway......I doubt the driver saw it. They were on their way to play hockey and probably talking or listening to music. They weren't drinking.......Regarding the investigation, it was in the paper quite a bit and they changed the laws I believe - basically no more speeding thru red lights. Now, you see them creep up to red lights. I remember as a kid, seeing them fly through.

 

Wow... Sorry for your loss... I bet the driver (both) feels even worse today... It is like Chef said... You usually see the creep around... Still shaves valuable time.

Edited February 26, 2011 by ExiledInIllinois

[gmac17]

This is gonna sound silly... But can an emerg vehicle "cause" an accident (like the one you saw)? While going "hot"... Aren't all other vehicles "burdened."

 

The ambulance hit the back end of the car that was in the middle of the intersection, sending it sideways into the sidewalk and hitting the bystander. I was across the street and turned when I heard the brakes / thud of the impact and saw the car going sideways. Horrible situation all around - can't imagine how the ambulance driver felt when he heard there was a serious injury.

[ExiledInIllinois]

The ambulance hit the back end of the car that was in the middle of the intersection, sending it sideways into the sidewalk and hitting the bystander. I was across the street and turned when I heard the brakes / thud of the impact and saw the car going sideways. Horrible situation all around - can't imagine how the ambulance driver felt when he heard there was a serious injury.

 

That is terrible. Must misjudged or something. I usually see them creep around like other have said.

[BuffaloBud]

They way I was trained was when I had a green light I was to slow down (rolling stop) and check that traffic could see me. On a red light I had to stop completely and check traffic.

 

We were also taught to change the tune of the siren often when going through an intersection. I see / hear too many emergency vehicles going through with the same tune and only using the air horn.

[DC Tom]

They way I was trained was when I had a green light I was to slow down (rolling stop) and check that traffic could see me. On a red light I had to stop completely and check traffic.

 

We were also taught to change the tune of the siren often when going through an intersection. I see / hear too many emergency vehicles going through with the same tune and only using the air horn.

 

Only time I've ever not seen emergency vehicles at least slow down at an intersection was on 9/11.

 

But I've never heard them change the siren, just hit the air horn.

[stevestojan]

I saw a pretty bad accident the other day in NYC that was caused by an ambulance with lights on running a red light, hitting a car which then careened into some poor guy on the sidewalk. The ambulance stopped for a moment, drove about 40 feet - slowed down again as if they didn't know what to do and then drove off (possibly because they saw the owner of the car jump out and it seemed like he was ok - though the guy on the sidewalk was not).

 

Just curious what the procedure in those cases is - as I'm sure they either had someone in the back they needed to get to the hospital, or another emergency they needed to get to.

In the insurance world, when any emergency vehicle gets into an accident with their lights/sirens on, it is nearly inpossible to put ANY fault on them. They have to show "gross negligence". Try proving that when they have they sirens and lights on.

[Chef Jim]

They way I was trained was when I had a green light I was to slow down (rolling stop) and check that traffic could see me. On a red light I had to stop completely and check traffic.

 

We were also taught to change the tune of the siren often when going through an intersection. I see / hear too many emergency vehicles going through with the same tune and only using the air horn.

 

They do that (change the siren tune) here in SF. We live in the city overlooking a busy intersection and get a lot of ambulances/fire trucks going by. Holy crap it sounds like a disco song on 10 hits of acid sometimes.

[BB27]

Emergency vehicles (police, fire, and ambulances) are required by law to stop at a red light and then proceed slowly through intersections. If the ambulance ran it as you say, then they are completely at fault for the accident.

[boyst]

In NC it seems there are varying practices. Some of the private services drive a little more wreckless and those that truly need an emergency will fly. Anyone who has been to NC knows I85, or what many call North Carolina State Speedway. It is not uncommon to have a group of cars at over 85 mph, or be passed at over 90...in a 55. When you get on 52 or some of the other minor highways you can nearly keep pace with some of the ambulances, I imagine they're just going to Wake Forest on a transfer. Taking my grandpa there they were doing about 75.

 

Fire trucks here generally do well to obey posted speeds, but the volunteers with the 3 volt strobe lights will fly. Like clock work, the siren goes on and the call out, within 2 or 3 minutes I get a rush of volunteers flying by the house.

 

I live in the country, I have seen Sheriffs deputies go by at over 80mph on a road rated for 40. Hell, I had one go thru my fence after he lost control 12 years ago. He got in big trouble. The way we understood it is that emergency service vehicles are not to exceed the speed limit while responding to certain calls, and must have their lights on to do so.

[NyQuil]

In NC it seems there are varying practices. Some of the private services drive a little more wreckless and those that truly need an emergency will fly. Anyone who has been to NC knows I85, or what many call North Carolina State Speedway. It is not uncommon to have a group of cars at over 85 mph, or be passed at over 90...in a 55. When you get on 52 or some of the other minor highways you can nearly keep pace with some of the ambulances, I imagine they're just going to Wake Forest on a transfer. Taking my grandpa there they were doing about 75.

 

Fire trucks here generally do well to obey posted speeds, but the volunteers with the 3 volt strobe lights will fly. Like clock work, the siren goes on and the call out, within 2 or 3 minutes I get a rush of volunteers flying by the house.

 

I live in the country, I have seen Sheriffs deputies go by at over 80mph on a road rated for 40. Hell, I had one go thru my fence after he lost control 12 years ago. He got in big trouble. The way we understood it is that emergency service vehicles are not to exceed the speed limit while responding to certain calls, and must have their lights on to do so.

 

Here in NY we are told that when you are going lights and sirens its 5 over on city roads and 10 over on expressways. No one really follows that but usually if you get into an accident, you are screwed. I am not sure of the particulars of firefighters going hot because I am strictly vol ambulance. However we have four priorites (1-4) and 1 and 2 are always lights and sirens and always ALS. Priority 3 can be lights and sirens but not neccessarily and priority 4 is no light/no sirens and is usually a BLS call. Priority 2 and 4 are the most common, at least where I operate.

Edited February 27, 2011 by NyQuil

[boyst]

Here in NY we are told that when you are going lights and sirens its 5 over on city roads and 10 over on expressways. No one really follows that but usually if you get into an accident, you are screwed. I am not sure of the particulars of firefighters going hot because I am strictly vol ambulance. However we have four priorites (1-4) and 1 and 2 are always lights and sirens and always ALS. Priority 3 can be lights and sirens but not neccessarily and priority 4 is no light/no sirens and is usually a BLS call. Priority 2 and 4 are the most common, at least where I operate.

What is the fastest you guys will travel? You, yourself, and your crew? (Speed / posted speed)?

What about others? How fast will some others go? Cops?

 

I remember in Charlotte Police officers were getting tickets by the speed cams, they were forced to pay them, too. Unless they were running with lights on or whatever; if I remember correctly, the biggest offenders were the police. Anyway, they did away with them, thankfully.

 

Anyone traveling to a race in Bristol needs to learn about the cameras there, though!

[Jim in Anchorage]

What is the fastest you guys will travel? You, yourself, and your crew? (Speed / posted speed)?

What about others? How fast will some others go? Cops?

 

I remember in Charlotte Police officers were getting tickets by the speed cams, they were forced to pay them, too. Unless they were running with lights on or whatever; if I remember correctly, the biggest offenders were the police. Anyway, they did away with them, thankfully.Anyone traveling to a race in Bristol needs to learn about the cameras there, though!

The police?

[boyst]

The police?

Go look at Russia, smartass

[NyQuil]

What is the fastest you guys will travel? You, yourself, and your crew? (Speed / posted speed)?

What about others? How fast will some others go? Cops?

 

I remember in Charlotte Police officers were getting tickets by the speed cams, they were forced to pay them, too. Unless they were running with lights on or whatever; if I remember correctly, the biggest offenders were the police. Anyway, they did away with them, thankfully.

 

Anyone traveling to a race in Bristol needs to learn about the cameras there, though!

 

I just cleared as a basic medic so I need to do that for a while before driver training (thats how my company does it) but we've gone 75 in a 55 to a location.

[BuffaloBud]

Here in NY we are told that when you are going lights and sirens its 5 over on city roads and 10 over on expressways.

 

That was our department's rule as well.

[ExiledInIllinois]

In the insurance world, when any emergency vehicle gets into an accident with their lights/sirens on, it is nearly inpossible to put ANY fault on them. They have to show "gross negligence". Try proving that when they have they sirens and lights on.

 

 

Bingo! Like I said earlier about all other vehicles being "burdened." Almost like a rear-end collision or like when you are skiing (opposite of this ambulance situation: because when lights and horns are on... ALL other traffic should come to a stop)... The "up" hill skier always is burdened... If they hit the "down" hill person (down the hill from them), they were NOT in control enough, following too closely, or whatever... No matter what the schmoe in front of them did to "cause" the collision.

Edited February 27, 2011 by ExiledInIllinois