Venting my anger

[dailar]

I am writing this after years of listening to people on here moan and whine and I feel I have to get it out of my system. There are a number of topics which I feel need addressing so I will take them one by one. Here's my first one.

 

Why did we draft him?

Lets start with my biggest bug bear, it's not only aimed at this example but its the one that's used the most so I am going to call it the Whitner-Ngata case of 2006. Now for 5 years we have heard about the fact the Bills took Mr Whitner before Mr Ngata and how terrible this is. In HINDSIGHT then I agree with you, looking at how their careers have panned out since you'd have to say we made a mistake. However, lets get a few facts out there. There were 23 probowl players selected (and 2 UDFA's) after Mr Whitner not just Mr Ngata. This is an even bigger indictment on the Bills front office. However if you look at this draft in full you will see that 3 of the sides that drafted above the Bills also missed out on a probowler and instead selected Reggie Bush, A J Hawk and Michael Huff. In that same draft the first pick of the amazingly astute Patriots was Laurence Maroney at pick 21. Whilst not forgetting that running backs are a dime a dozen and only the Bills would think of picking one in the first round, if running back was their need they missed out on probowlers DeAngelo Williams, Jason Addai, Maurice Jones-Drew and Leon Washington. Also with his second round pick he selected Chad Jackson at pick 36. Who I hear you ask! If WR was his bag he could have selected Gregg Jennings, Brandon Marshall and Miles Austin. I put it to you that Belichick is a complete idiot! The fact that the pats now try to maximise the number of picks they have is a further example that the draft is a crapshoot and the more picks you have the better chance you have of hitting on one.

 

I need to know how long I am going to hear about Mr Whitner and Mr Ngata as Mr Whitner is soon to depart. Could this still be going on in 20 years time? If so I have decided when hearing this comparison, from now on I am going to counter with "Can you believe the Bills selected John Pitts in the 67 draft when Hall of Famers Lem Barney and Ken Houston were still on the board. It's no wonder this organisation stinks"!

[sweetjones]

+1

 

Thank you, sir, and well said. While the Whitner/Ngata debacle is only the tip (albeit a big tip) of the iceberg that is Bills fans' anger, it is nonetheless mind numbingly repeated on these boards and elsewhere. Fact of the matter is, Bills fans, one draft pick does not a team make. Ngata is prolific on an already outstanding defense, he is sorrounded by great players and great coaches. Who knows: with the right supporting cast, Whitner might make Polamalu look like a Chris Watson (ok, he was a CB). But you get the point, no?

 

anyway... You've gotta figure that eventually these people will drop this subject, sit back, and be excited for the future. We will eventually beat the Pats* and we will eventually get back to the playoffs. It doesn't do any good to think "wow, imagine what COULD have been." I'd like to think all of us Bills fans have better things to do with our time than sit in front of a computer and complain about this team which we all love so much for hours, months, days, watever.

 

Just enjoy the masochistic pleasure that comes with cheering for this team.

 

Oh, and for those of you thinking "who is this noob who is still so positive about the bills after all these years of heartbreak? he must be too young or stupid to understand the pain we feel" well, you want to know pain? I was at XXV, and from where I was sitting, I thought it was good... I was cheering and screaming my heart out for about 30 seconds before I realized that the giants fans sorrounding me were cheering too... wide right. I was 7. It is one of my most vivid memories from my youth and has shaped the person I am today.

 

Sorry for the rant... got off topic.

Drop the "we should have drafted player X" complaints. we're all tired of them.

 

Enjoy the playoffs, hope brady and sanchize both break their hips this week, and look forward to the future.

[Bill from NYC]

Who knows: with the right supporting cast, Whitner might make Polamalu look like a Chris Watson (ok, he was a CB). But you get the point, no?

 

Nobody says you have to care about credibility on this board, nor anywhere else. Having said that, if you want any, you might want to re-think the above and no.....I missed the point.

 

This is a message board where people fanatical fans talk about their team. For the OP and in fact you to come here and dictate terms of conversation seems a bit presumptuous. You get the point, no?

[CodeMonkey]

The thing is, the example you picked is only one of many examples of drafting ineptitude.

The most recent being the CJ Spiller pick this past draft.

Some people (me included) think, and have thought since it was done, that it was a very bad idea to pick him at #9 for a multitude of reasons. Plus it was not a great first ever pick for the most recent General Manager (again, in a lot of peoples opinions).

 

As long as the Bills front office have their heads up their collective asses on draft day, you can expect to hear about all the bad decisions they have made over the decades. As Bills fans we can only hope Nix from now on, and all GMs that follow start making decisions that can give the fans cause to be happy and proud.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

I am writing this after years of listening to people on here moan and whine and I feel I have to get it out of my system. There are a number of topics which I feel need addressing so I will take them one by one. Here's my first one.

Why did we draft him?

I need to know how long I am going to hear about Mr Whitner and Mr Ngata as Mr Whitner is soon to depart. Could this still be going on in 20 years time? If so I have decided when hearing this comparison, from now on I am going to counter with "Can you believe the Bills selected John Pitts in the 67 draft when Hall of Famers Lem Barney and Ken Houston were still on the board. It's no wonder this organisation stinks"!

 

Dude, welcome. This is a cool place to talk about the Bills.

There are topics interesting to discuss, and topics that are getting kinda worn to me.

There are some amazing knowledgeable football fans here. I feel honored when I make a post and one of them says "post more" or "good points", sometimes I "sit corrected". Often I learn something. There are also some "alligator stations" (great big mouth, little teeny ears), some trolls, and a few outright douchebags.

It is what it is, like everyplace else.

 

No, you don't need to know how long you're going to hear about (topic X), actually.

 

Fans who want to discuss it will discuss it until they're tired of discussing it, and as long as they meet the TOS nothing will stop them.

If you want to bring up John Pitts that's your right too. Anyone who feels the same way may speak up and you can have a conversation

 

Unsolicited advice: If you're not interested in a topic, skip it. If it really puts you in a wad, or there are posters who put you in a wad, learn to use the "ignore" feature.

 

People who get really angry or upset about the douchy or troll-like posters, or about specific topics that occur ad nauseum, typically won't stay around very long.

And why should they: I wouldn't participate in a recreational voluntary activity that got me angry or upset.

 

Point is, it's a choice you make to get angry or upset about specific topics or specific posters, rather than just taking it for what it is and enjoying what's good.

[VirginiaMike]

I understand your anger and don't need to hear about the Whitner draft anymore. there are many, many other examples of much poorer 1st round selections the Bills have made than Whitner. In fact, Whitner may have been one of their better 1st round selections in the last 10 years.

Let's look at some -->

Spiller -- to early to tell, but nothing so far

Maybin -- maybe the worst of all and that's saying something

Mckelvin -- Whitner has been a better defensive player than him

Whitner -- Maybe not so bad in comparison

McCargo -- Close to the Maybin level

Lynch -- May be a good player but gave Buffalo nothing

Evans -- Maybe the best choice over the last 10 years

Losman -- do I need to say anything here

Magahee -- in the Lynch category

M Williams -- he is also at the Maybin level

Clements -- was good in Buffalo -- let him go

 

You look at this and wonder why Bills fans are frustrated -- it's obvious. While Whitner draft is not something to rant about, the Bills 1st round drafts are.

[bowery4]

I understand your anger and don't need to hear about the Whitner draft anymore. there are many, many other examples of much poorer 1st round selections the Bills have made than Whitner. In fact, Whitner may have been one of their better 1st round selections in the last 10 years.

Let's look at some -->

Spiller -- to early to tell, but nothing so far

Maybin -- maybe the worst of all and that's saying something

Mckelvin -- Whitner has been a better defensive player than him

Whitner -- Maybe not so bad in comparison

McCargo -- Close to the Maybin level, I think you have this backwards

Lynch -- May be a good player but gave Buffalo nothing

Evans -- Maybe the best choice over the last 10 years

Losman -- do I need to say anything here

Magahee -- in the Lynch category

M Williams -- he is also at the Maybin level

Clements -- was good in Buffalo -- let him go

 

You look at this and wonder why Bills fans are frustrated -- it's obvious. While Whitner draft is not something to rant about, the Bills 1st round drafts are.

[gumby]

It wouldn't matter if Whitner became a perrennial Pro-Bowler on his way to the HOF. His value at the time of the draft was not an 8th overall selection. My personal wish would be to have a front office savvy enough to realize that. Instead the Bills had an octogenarian, who by his own admission hadn't paid attention to the league in several seasons, in charge of the club. And he was brought in for no other reason than he made Ralph Wilson feel good after the disaster that was Tom Donahoe.

The Bills did what they usually have done in the last decade (Spiller being one of the few exceptions) and drafted for need instead of BPA. Now there's nothing wrong going with the "draft for need" route but you need to know the player's value and move appropriately in the draft to get him. You don't select a guy 8th overall who was considered a late 1st round pick just because you want a safety. Move down in the draft get extra picks and still get the guy you want. To me that's how the good teams do it, that's how the smart teams do it. It would've be nice if the Bills FO IQ had been better. I still have hopes for Nix & Co. that they will have a good draft in 2011.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

It wouldn't matter if Whitner became a perrennial Pro-Bowler on his way to the HOF. His value at the time of the draft was not an 8th overall selection. My personal wish would be to have a front office savvy enough to realize that. Instead the Bills had an octogenarian, who by his own admission hadn't paid attention to the league in several seasons, in charge of the club. And he was brought in for no other reason than he made Ralph Wilson feel good after the disaster that was Tom Donahoe.

The Bills did what they usually have done in the last decade (Spiller being one of the few exceptions) and drafted for need instead of BPA. Now there's nothing wrong going with the "draft for need" route but you need to know the player's value and move appropriately in the draft to get him. You don't select a guy 8th overall who was considered a late 1st round pick just because you want a safety. Move down in the draft get extra picks and still get the guy you want. To me that's how the good teams do it, that's how the smart teams do it. It would've be nice if the Bills FO IQ had been better. I still have hopes for Nix & Co. that they will have a good draft in 2011.

 

Whitner was a "need" pick? I thought if anything he was a "BPA" pick.

[Mr. WEO]

I am writing this after years of listening to people on here moan and whine and I feel I have to get it out of my system. There are a number of topics which I feel need addressing so I will take them one by one. Here's my first one.

 

Why did we draft him?

Lets start with my biggest bug bear, it's not only aimed at this example but its the one that's used the most so I am going to call it the Whitner-Ngata case of 2006. Now for 5 years we have heard about the fact the Bills took Mr Whitner before Mr Ngata and how terrible this is. In HINDSIGHT then I agree with you, looking at how their careers have panned out since you'd have to say we made a mistake. However, lets get a few facts out there. There were 23 probowl players selected (and 2 UDFA's) after Mr Whitner not just Mr Ngata. This is an even bigger indictment on the Bills front office. However if you look at this draft in full you will see that 3 of the sides that drafted above the Bills also missed out on a probowler and instead selected Reggie Bush, A J Hawk and Michael Huff. In that same draft the first pick of the amazingly astute Patriots was Laurence Maroney at pick 21. Whilst not forgetting that running backs are a dime a dozen and only the Bills would think of picking one in the first round, if running back was their need they missed out on probowlers DeAngelo Williams, Jason Addai, Maurice Jones-Drew and Leon Washington. Also with his second round pick he selected Chad Jackson at pick 36. Who I hear you ask! If WR was his bag he could have selected Gregg Jennings, Brandon Marshall and Miles Austin. I put it to you that Belichick is a complete idiot! The fact that the pats now try to maximise the number of picks they have is a further example that the draft is a crapshoot and the more picks you have the better chance you have of hitting on one.

 

I need to know how long I am going to hear about Mr Whitner and Mr Ngata as Mr Whitner is soon to depart. Could this still be going on in 20 years time? If so I have decided when hearing this comparison, from now on I am going to counter with "Can you believe the Bills selected John Pitts in the 67 draft when Hall of Famers Lem Barney and Ken Houston were still on the board. It's no wonder this organisation stinks"!

After all these years, your anger is directed at those who complain ("moan and whine") about the Bills perennially poor drafting? As others have pointed out, your single example of the Whitner pick...let's say somewhat misses the broader point. This organization hasn't drafted a high impact player on the first day of the draft in years. I understand you're trying to make a point with exageration by mentioning a couple of Bellichicks draft misses. But to demonstrate how silly the comparison is, check out the results of his last draft and ours and see how many starters the pats have from that group. And we have many more needs.

 

Anyway, perhaps you can provide an example of a fan post site of a chronically losing team that has no fans complaining about the performance of the team organization. Or, conversely, perhaps a similar site that has so many people who disparage disgruntled fans for pointing out the obvious.

 

Or, I guess we can all hope for Brady to break his hip, as you suggest as the alternative to more effective drafting. But he was broken a few years ago--how did that work out for you? As I recall, the beatings continued.

 

Perhaps your anger should be redirected toward those repsonsible for the chronic state of the Bills, rather than at other fans who complain about this.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

 

Or, I guess we can all hope for Brady to break his hip, as you suggest as the alternative to more effective drafting. But he was broken a few years ago--how did that work out for you? As I recall, the beatings continued.

 

 

Heh. Too true.

[Dorkington]

I am writing this after years of listening to people on here moan and whine and I feel I have to get it out of my system. There are a number of topics which I feel need addressing so I will take them one by one. Here's my first one.

 

Why did we draft him?

Lets start with my biggest bug bear, it's not only aimed at this example but its the one that's used the most so I am going to call it the Whitner-Ngata case of 2006. Now for 5 years we have heard about the fact the Bills took Mr Whitner before Mr Ngata and how terrible this is. In HINDSIGHT then I agree with you, looking at how their careers have panned out since you'd have to say we made a mistake. However, lets get a few facts out there. There were 23 probowl players selected (and 2 UDFA's) after Mr Whitner not just Mr Ngata. This is an even bigger indictment on the Bills front office. However if you look at this draft in full you will see that 3 of the sides that drafted above the Bills also missed out on a probowler and instead selected Reggie Bush, A J Hawk and Michael Huff. In that same draft the first pick of the amazingly astute Patriots was Laurence Maroney at pick 21. Whilst not forgetting that running backs are a dime a dozen and only the Bills would think of picking one in the first round, if running back was their need they missed out on probowlers DeAngelo Williams, Jason Addai, Maurice Jones-Drew and Leon Washington. Also with his second round pick he selected Chad Jackson at pick 36. Who I hear you ask! If WR was his bag he could have selected Gregg Jennings, Brandon Marshall and Miles Austin. I put it to you that Belichick is a complete idiot! The fact that the pats now try to maximise the number of picks they have is a further example that the draft is a crapshoot and the more picks you have the better chance you have of hitting on one.

 

I need to know how long I am going to hear about Mr Whitner and Mr Ngata as Mr Whitner is soon to depart. Could this still be going on in 20 years time? If so I have decided when hearing this comparison, from now on I am going to counter with "Can you believe the Bills selected John Pitts in the 67 draft when Hall of Famers Lem Barney and Ken Houston were still on the board. It's no wonder this organisation stinks"!

I'm beginning to believe the "more" is better than the "position" myself.

[gumby]

Whitner was a "need" pick? I thought if anything he was a "BPA" pick.

 

I believe in '05 the Bills safeties were Milloy and Vincent. That was Milloy's last year in Buffalo and Vincent was gone in '06 after one game. Add to the fact Jauron was hired and he preferred drafting DBs, so his scheme had a need. So yeah it was a need pick. Whitner was considered a late 1st round pick. He certainly wasn't BPA at 8th overall.

[dailar]

 

Or, I guess we can all hope for Brady to break his hip, as you suggest as the alternative to more effective drafting. But he was broken a few years ago--how did that work out for you? As I recall, the beatings continued.

 

 

 

Where did I say this exactly? I dont want anyone to have to hurt themselves for us to win pal. As for the perrenial moaning I think the point is how many times do we have to hear the same arguement. Thats the point. I get it, Ngata is better than Whitner. Saying it over and over again does not validate your point further.

[Never NEVER Give-up]

I was cheering and screaming my heart out for about 30 seconds before I realized that the giants fans sorrounding me were cheering too... wide right. I was 7. It is one of my most vivid memories from my youth and has shaped the person I am today. . . . sweetjones

 

geeze - NO child should have to see that - you must be scarred for life!

[mattsox]

I understand your anger and don't need to hear about the Whitner draft anymore. there are many, many other examples of much poorer 1st round selections the Bills have made than Whitner. In fact, Whitner may have been one of their better 1st round selections in the last 10 years.

Let's look at some -->

Spiller -- to early to tell, but nothing so far

Maybin -- maybe the worst of all and that's saying something

Mckelvin -- Whitner has been a better defensive player than him

Whitner -- Maybe not so bad in comparison

McCargo -- Close to the Maybin level

Lynch -- May be a good player but gave Buffalo nothing

Evans -- Maybe the best choice over the last 10 years

Losman -- do I need to say anything here

Magahee -- in the Lynch category

M Williams -- he is also at the Maybin level

Clements -- was good in Buffalo -- let him go

 

 

You look at this and wonder why Bills fans are frustrated -- it's obvious. While Whitner draft is not something to rant about, the Bills 1st round drafts are.

 

Pretty straight forward. It's been a bad operation top to bottom for over a decade. Bad GMs No GMs and People having no Business being a GM has made this mess of team happen. Ralph being completely inept hasn't helped much. He gets angry like a little kid and fires anyone who knows something about football or would dare question him. It's amazing people even go to games anymore. It all comes down to Ralph being a bad owner. He had something great in the 90s and he ruined it. I'll give Nix and Co this year to get this mess straightened out. But I better see some positive signs or I'm out until we get a new owner. If we have a repeat of last offseason. Goodnight Bills...

Edited January 11, 2011 by mattsox

[Bill from NYC]

Whitner was a "need" pick? I thought if anything he was a "BPA" pick.

 

Why would you think this Joe? He was the second ranked safety and he was small. The following were the first selected in 2006 at their respective positions:

 

DT: Ngata

OG: Davin Joseph

OC: Nick Mangold

DE: Tamba Hali (Kiwanuka was next)

 

We had needs at all of these positions, and this is not to mention qb. In fact, we could have traded down and taken most if not all of these players. Levy said himself that he spurned offers to trade down.

Whitner was selected because Dick Levy truly believed that the secondary and special teams were the first places to look while rebuilding a team. The OP wants us to not bring up idiocy like this, but this is why the team is 4-12.

Edited January 11, 2011 by Bill from NYC

[Thoner7]

I am writing this after years of listening to people on here moan and whine and I feel I have to get it out of my system. There are a number of topics which I feel need addressing so I will take them one by one. Here's my first one.

 

Why did we draft him?

Lets start with my biggest bug bear, it's not only aimed at this example but its the one that's used the most so I am going to call it the Whitner-Ngata case of 2006. Now for 5 years we have heard about the fact the Bills took Mr Whitner before Mr Ngata and how terrible this is. In HINDSIGHT then I agree with you, looking at how their careers have panned out since you'd have to say we made a mistake. However, lets get a few facts out there. There were 23 probowl players selected (and 2 UDFA's) after Mr Whitner not just Mr Ngata. This is an even bigger indictment on the Bills front office. However if you look at this draft in full you will see that 3 of the sides that drafted above the Bills also missed out on a probowler and instead selected Reggie Bush, A J Hawk and Michael Huff. In that same draft the first pick of the amazingly astute Patriots was Laurence Maroney at pick 21. Whilst not forgetting that running backs are a dime a dozen and only the Bills would think of picking one in the first round, if running back was their need they missed out on probowlers DeAngelo Williams, Jason Addai, Maurice Jones-Drew and Leon Washington. Also with his second round pick he selected Chad Jackson at pick 36. Who I hear you ask! If WR was his bag he could have selected Gregg Jennings, Brandon Marshall and Miles Austin. I put it to you that Belichick is a complete idiot! The fact that the pats now try to maximise the number of picks they have is a further example that the draft is a crapshoot and the more picks you have the better chance you have of hitting on one.

 

I need to know how long I am going to hear about Mr Whitner and Mr Ngata as Mr Whitner is soon to depart. Could this still be going on in 20 years time? If so I have decided when hearing this comparison, from now on I am going to counter with "Can you believe the Bills selected John Pitts in the 67 draft when Hall of Famers Lem Barney and Ken Houston were still on the board. It's no wonder this organisation stinks"!

 

Ok, so because Whitner stinks and so do other players drafted in front of him and because there are many great players the Bills passed on I shouldn’t feel as bad about it.

 

OK?

[Dorkington]

Mostly busts, a couple serviceable starters.

 

I say we cut our losses, and start trading first round picks for multiple later round picks, and see if we can increase our chances at getting lucky.

[CodeMonkey]

Where did I say this exactly? I dont want anyone to have to hurt themselves for us to win pal. As for the perrenial moaning I think the point is how many times do we have to hear the same arguement. Thats the point. I get it, Ngata is better than Whitner. Saying it over and over again does not validate your point further.

Examples are going to be used whenever the topic of poor (particularly first day) drafting is being discussed.

The good news for you I guess is there are many more examples than the one you are obsessing over to use so maybe they will be.